THE ANGELS THAT SINNED

[Keiw1]

Picking and choosing a sovereign to begin your calculations doesn't do the job.
The Last Days began with the Advent of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2, around 33 AD.

Rev 6:2-He receives his crown, Rev 6:4-peace will be taken from the earth=ww1=1914--the prophecy is correct--Rev 6:1-the ride of the white horse( righteous war) begins= the war in heaven. After ww1, millions upon millions died all over the earth from other things mentioned of the other 3 riders.

 

[SeventhDay]

Ummm, yes, scripture does teach that the angels were originally created perfect. Just like the anointed cherub in Ezekiel 28:13-15. "Thou hast been in Eden, the garden of God...Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth...Thou was PERFECT in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."

Angels were created with the option of choosing good or evil, just as mankind was given a choice to obey or not. Any creation of God is necessarily of a lesser order than their Creator, and when given this opportunity to choose between good and evil, even a creature that is created perfect can be corrupted by that option to choose evil, unless they are preserved by the Creator in a sinless state (which the "elect angels" were).

How do you know that scriptures quoted is in reference to Satan? More likely it is referring to Adam in the garden of Eden.

Scriptures state that the devil is a liar and a murderer from the beginning!
Also, Adam was perfect in innocence in the beginning but what happen when God gave Adam a law to obey? If he was perfect he would have obeyed!

Perfect creation stay perfect otherwise they are not perfect!

 

[jeremiah1five]

Rev 6:2-He receives his crown, Rev 6:4-peace will be taken from the earth=ww1=1914--the prophecy is correct--Rev 6:1-the ride of the white horse( righteous war) begins= the war in heaven. After ww1, millions upon millions died all over the earth from other things mentioned of the other 3 riders.

And WW2? Over 20 million died in that war begun in 1939 .
Or the Korean War of 1950.
The Southeast Asian war begun after the end of hostilities in Europe and Japan in 1945. First, France was fighting and then Pres. Eisenhower inserted advisors in the 50s, and then Pres. Kennedy sent in some troops but he was gunned down and Pres. Johnson and Nixon escalated that conflict until 1975 when the Communists overran Saigon and took the country as America and her allies fled.
Then the war in Algeria and central Africa with Cuban forces and Russian Communists.
Not to mention regional conflicts between countries in Africa and South America. Then there's the First Gulf War to oust Iraq from Kuwait in 1991. Then the Second Gulf War to oust Hussein from Iraq and the American Afghanistan War against the Taliban, and still there are wars going on in the world that don't get publicized in the newspapers and media. Check the UN website to get a good picture at today's wars around the world. Now Russia attacks Ukraine and a NATO-Russia/China/North Korea/Iran conflict is one shot away.
Why haven't you calculated from these points of conflict and wars?

20 But the wicked are like the troubled sea,
When it cannot rest,
Whose waters cast up mire and dirt.
21 There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked.
Isaiah 57:20–21.

 

[Red Baker]

Apparently the angels that left their firs estate were placed into chains after the flood...or even during the flood. The bible isn't clear as to the exact timing. We do know it wasn't prior to or during the creation week.

The angels that sinned happens the very second God gave them their freedom and left them to themselves which took place after the seventh day. Why do I say this? Because God alone is immutable, no angels or flesh are so. Their freedom lasted no longer than when God left them. It is not difficult to understand this~understanding the unique, infinite, attributes of God which he alone possess.

They sir, were cast down to hell and placed in chains of darkness the very second they sinned, and not a second later. Selah.

 

[Rella]

Sir, you have not taken what I posted and proved it wrong. Genesis 6 is strictly addressing the sons of God, the righteous line of believers taht we can follow in Genesis 5 for the first 6000 plus years (understanding the biblical timeline that God placed in Genesis 5, 10 to teach us how old this earth is~need help, read : https://www.mountainretreatorg.net/bible/timeline.shtml an excellent article. ) of creation.

Thank you Red,

Just a very quick side note....

Finally,

A truly studied timeline with careful thought in each section. (Admittedly I did not read every word.... my bad)

https://www.mountainretreatorg.net/bible/timeline.shtml

So, creation was in 11,013BC Correct?

EACH PATRIARCH'S YEAR FROM CREATION Age of World
PATRIARCH YEARS! EACH ENDS FROM CHRIST
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Creation 0 11,013 B.C
Adam 130 130 10,883 B.C.


As the list only covers people it shows the creation of what? This ball of mud we walk on?

The comment is "How old is the earth? The total age of the world, from the creation of Adam to the year 1996, is 13,008 years."

I still disagree, and specifically when it can be fairly proven that unless you are a diehard set in your ways or a "preterist" (And he said unto them, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.) that crucifixion took place on Nisan 14 in 30AD

No matter... the age of the world... (ie Adam) is off by 3 years.

 

[3 Resurrections]

How do you know that scriptures quoted is in reference to Satan? More likely it is referring to Adam in the garden of Eden.

Scriptures state that the devil is a liar and a murderer from the beginning!
Also, Adam was perfect in innocence in the beginning but what happen when God gave Adam a law to obey? If he was perfect he would have obeyed!

Perfect creation stay perfect otherwise they are not perfect!

That scripture in Ezekiel 28:11--19 is not describing the human prince of Tyre (who is described earlier in Ezekiel 28:1-10), but the angelic prince of Tyre that was working behind the scenes attempting to corrupt and deceive the human prince of Tyre and that entire city. (The story behind Satan's reason for wishing to corrupt the city of Tyre is a fascinating study, as an aside.)

"Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth" (Ez. 28:14) God told this creature. Adam was not a cherub that covered anything, so this Ezekiel 28:11-19 passage cannot possibly be describing him. This "covering" is in reference to the role of the two cherubim in heaven who originally "covered" the ark in heaven's temple.

And yes, Satan was a liar and a murderer from the beginning of the Fall of mankind when he effectively murdered the human race by his temptation which caused death of body, soul, and spirit for the originally-sinless couple.

This couple was originally created sinless (included in the "good and very good" summation of all God created). However, anything that is a created being is necessarily of a lesser order than the Almighty Creator Himself who "changes not". As such, created beings that are given the choice to perform either good or evil have the potential to fall from that sinless position...a probationary status of sorts. God, who knew the inevitable results of giving mankind this option of freely choosing between good and evil, made advance plans to rescue mankind from that inevitable, disastrous fall from perfection.

God who "changes not" is the only one who can be trusted with this potent power of free will. It is a dangerous, two-edged sword in the hands of any created being. Eventually over time, a third of the angels failed this free-will test (leaving the "elect angels" preserved in a righteous state), and mankind failed this free-will test as well. God has rescued and ordained a vast majority of elect from humankind as well, to be preserved as His children until their perfection is completed in a bodily resurrection, never to fall or die again.

 

[CrowCross]

The appearance of a man.
It doesn't say it was a man.

I don't disagree...neither does it enhance your point.

 

[CrowCross]

The angels that sinned happens the very second God gave them their freedom and left them to themselves which took place after the seventh day. Why do I say this? Because God alone is immutable, no angels or flesh are so. Their freedom lasted no longer than when God left them. It is not difficult to understand this~understanding the unique, infinite, attributes of God which he alone possess.

That may be true...but it is based upon speculation as the bible doesn't say the angels fell the moment God gave them their freedom.

They sir, were cast down to hell and placed in chains of darkness the very second they sinned, and not a second later. Selah.

The bible doesn't say when the angels of Gen 6 were cast down to hell and locked up in chains....Once more you speculate.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I don't disagree...neither does it enhance your point.

Of course, it does.
There is a difference between a man and the appearance of a man.

 

[3 Resurrections]

The bible doesn't say when the angels of Gen 6 were cast down to hell and locked up in chains....

That particular sin of all those marriages between the "sons of God" (fallen angels) and the daughters of men did not take place simultaneously. Therefore those angels could not all have fallen in the same moment of time.

Some of the angels committed other sins than this one of marriages with human women. From the cautionary warning of Paul against the voluntary "worship of angels" in Colossians 2:18, who are "greater in power and might" than humanity (2 Peter 2:11), it would appear that once a righteous angel decided to accept the worship of men, that they fell into sin by that means. Satan seemed to be most desirous of getting Christ to fall down and worship himself in Luke 4:7, so this must have been one of the temptations that righteous angels could have succumbed to.

This worship of devils is mentioned several places in scripture, particularly by the Gentiles. As Paul once wrote in 1 Corinthians 10:20, "But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God..." And also the text of Psalms 96:5 (LXX), "For all the gods of the heathen are devils, but the Lord made the heavens."

Israel also fell into this same sinful practice, as Deuteronomy 32:16-17 said when Israel departed from God and sank into idolatry. "They provoked Him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they Him to anger. They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not."

This phrase about "new gods that came newly up" shows that the righteous angels fell into this temptation to receive the worship of men over the process of time, and became devils on a case-by-case basis, instead of a massive, one time only unified revolt against their Maker.

 

[Keiw1]

And WW2? Over 20 million died in that war begun in 1939 .
Or the Korean War of 1950.
The Southeast Asian war begun after the end of hostilities in Europe and Japan in 1945. First, France was fighting and then Pres. Eisenhower inserted advisors in the 50s, and then Pres. Kennedy sent in some troops but he was gunned down and Pres. Johnson and Nixon escalated that conflict until 1975 when the Communists overran Saigon and took the country as America and her allies fled.
Then the war in Algeria and central Africa with Cuban forces and Russian Communists.
Not to mention regional conflicts between countries in Africa and South America. Then there's the First Gulf War to oust Iraq from Kuwait in 1991. Then the Second Gulf War to oust Hussein from Iraq and the American Afghanistan War against the Taliban, and still there are wars going on in the world that don't get publicized in the newspapers and media. Check the UN website to get a good picture at today's wars around the world. Now Russia attacks Ukraine and a NATO-Russia/China/North Korea/Iran conflict is one shot away.
Why haven't you calculated from these points of conflict and wars?

20 But the wicked are like the troubled sea,
When it cannot rest,
Whose waters cast up mire and dirt.
21 There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked.
Isaiah 57:20–21.

Satan was cast to the earth in 1914- A war like no other ensued. The reason= The good news of Gods kingdom being preached began, Satans attempt to stop it=ww1, it did until 1919 when the JW,s who refused to kill each other by standing on both sides of that war went to prision but were were released from prision in 1919. The preaching work( Luke 10, Acts 20:20) began again.
The bible foretold the going into the middle east(Iraq-Libya)-after the hidden gold=black gold--Shortly after that all of a sudden the usa is the #1 oil producer, Afghanistan-all of a sudden our streets were filled with cheap Heroin. However were not wars like ww1. 1914 was a turning point in history.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Satan was cast to the earth in 1914- A war like no other ensued. The reason= The good news of Gods kingdom being preached began, Satans attempt to stop it=ww1, it did until 1919 when the JW,s who refused to kill each other by standing on both sides of that war went to prision but were were released from prision in 1919. The preaching work( Luke 10, Acts 20:20) began again.
The bible foretold the going into the middle east(Iraq-Libya)-after the hidden gold=black gold--Shortly after that all of a sudden the usa is the #1 oil producer, Afghanistan-all of a sudden our streets were filled with cheap Heroin. However were not wars like ww1. 1914 was a turning point in history.

Satan wasn't cast to the earth. He's been chained up since Genesis awaiting judgment. Or don't you believe the Holy Spirit?

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Pe 2:3–4.

They're ALL locked up until judgment.
Do you believe the Holy Spirit who Authored the Scripture?

 

[CrowCross]

Of course, it does.
There is a difference between a man and the appearance of a man.

Nevermind.

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Your definition of "celestial bodies" is not what a celestial body is~celestial bodies are bodies or heavenly bodies which are "objects in space" such as the sun, moon, planets, and stars~not angels! Sir, they are not species of created angelic flesh! Need help call NASA.1 (202) 358-0001

Hi Red,

It's nice to reply directly to you.

The sun and moon are definitely not angels. But stars... sometimes stars ARE angels.

Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

The Greek word angels really just means messengers (I know how you love the Greek ). We imply that they are somehow superhuman beings, and sometimes that's true. But regular people can be messengers as well. And so can literal stars! Just ask the 3 wise men!

-Jarrod

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

"Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth" (Ez. 28:14) God told this creature. This "covering" is in reference to the role of the two cherubim in heaven who originally "covered" the ark in heaven's temple.

I think it's in reference to this -

Gen 3:24 So [God] drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Eden is within the context of Eze 28.

 

[3 Resurrections]

I think it's in reference to this -

Gen 3:24 So [God] drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Eden is within the context of Eze 28.

Yes, Eden is there in the context of Ezekiel 28, but the "covering" mentioned I believe has reference instead to the mercy seat "job" description of the cherubim depicted in Exodus 37:7-9.

"And he made two cherubims of gold, beaten out of one piece made he them, on the two ends of the mercy seat; One cherub on the end on this side, and another cherub on the other end on that side: out of the mercy seat made he the cherubims on the two ends thereof. And the cherubims spread out their wings on high, and covered with their wings over the mercy seat, with their faces one to another; even to the mercy seatward were the faces of the cherubims."

We are told that the tabernacle and its furnishings were patterned as a copy of the things in heaven, so I believe this role of "the anointed cherub that covereth" was once Satan's task in heaven before he sinned by pride and fell into rebellion.

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Yes, Eden is there in the context of Ezekiel 28, but the "covering" mentioned I believe has reference instead to the mercy seat "job" description of the cherubim depicted in Exodus 37:7-9.

We are told that the tabernacle and its furnishings were patterned as a copy of the things in heaven, so I believe this role of "the anointed cherub that covereth" was once Satan's task in heaven before he sinned by pride and fell into rebellion.

Ezekiel gives us the location of the Garden of Eden as being in "Lebanon" (31:16). Chapter 28 is addressed to the "Prince of Tyre" and Tyre was a chief city of Lebanon. It makes sense to me that the protector of the forest of Lebanon would be the king of the largest city in the area.

On a completely related note, do you remember who it was that designed the temple with those cherubim covering over the ark? It was the king of Tyre... (1Ch 14:1)

 

[3 Resurrections]

On a completely related note, do you remember who it was that designed the temple with those cherubim covering over the ark? It was the king of Tyre... (1Ch 14:1)

Hiram contributed supplies and workmen per Solomon's request, but the designs of the temple pattern were given to Solomon by David, according to the Spirit's plan. 1 Chronicles 28:11 says, "Then David gave to Solomon his son the pattern of the porch, and of the houses thereof, and of the treasuries thereof, and of the upper chambers thereof, and of the inner parlours thereof, and of the place of the mercy seat, And the pattern of all that he had by the spirit, of the courts of the house of the Lord, and of all the chambers round about, of the treasuries of the house of God, and of the treasuries of the dedicated things: Also for the courses of the priests and the Levites, and for all the work of the service of the house of the Lord, and for all the vessels of service in the house of the Lord."

Sounds like a complete "blueprint" for temple plans which the Spirit gave to David to pass on to Solomon. Not Hiram's design idea at all.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Chapter 28 is addressed to the "Prince of Tyre"

The first part of Ezekiel 28, verses 1-10, is addressed to the human prince of Tyre. We know this was a human individual, because Ezekiel 28:2 tells him, "Thou art a MAN and not God." This man was going to die by the hand of other men in the manner of those who are slain in the midst of the seas (v. 8).

The second part of Ezekiel 28, verses 11-19, is addressed to the angelic prince of Tyre: "the anointed cherub that covereth". This formerly anointed cherub would die by God bringing a fire out of the midst of that creature, which would turn him to ashes on the earth in the sight of men. It would take God to slay this angelic creature so that he would no longer exist.

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Hiram contributed supplies and workmen per Solomon's request, but the designs of the temple pattern were given to Solomon by David earlier, according to the Spirit's plan. 1 Chronicles 28:11 says, "Then David gave to Solomon his son the pattern of the porch, and of the houses thereof, and of the treasuries thereof, and of the upper chambers thereof, and of the inner parlours thereof, and of the place of the mercy seat, And the pattern of all that he had by the spirit, of the courts of the house of the Lord, and of all the chambers round about, of the treasuries of the house of God, and of the treasuries of the dedicated things: Also for the courses of the priests and the Levites, and for all the work of the service of the house of the Lord, and for all the vessels of service in the house of the Lord."

Sounds like a complete "blueprint" for temple plans which the Spirit gave to David to pass on to Solomon. Not Hiram's design idea at all.

And that brings us to a Biblical contradiction. Here is the testimony of the martyr Stephen:

Act 7:44-50: Our fathers had the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness, as he had appointed, speaking unto Moses, that he should make it according to the fashion that he had seen. Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David; Who found favour before God, and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob. But Solomon built him an house. Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? Hath not my hand made all these things?

Should we go through the rest of the Bible, we will find that this message is repeated a number of times. I believe it would be fair to say that the prophets agree that the temple and sacrifices were NOT ordained of God, while the priests are adamant that the temple is holy and necessary.

I tend to side with the prophets, because they heard directly from God, because they didn't have anything to gain from the message, and in fact lost their lives for delivering it.

On the other hand, the priests had a vested interest in promoting the temple and were perpetually wicked from one end of the book to the other.

-Jarrod