The 2 Natures in Christ

[Ritajanice]

I'm proud you're able to keep up.

I'm talking about the human (with a human nature) having an immortal spirit, and God being an immortal Spirit.

Ah right...and we have that immortal spirit within us...the Holy Spirit.?

Anyway I will leave you to it....why are you proud that I’m able to keep up.LOL..ha!!

A runnin buddy..what’s that?..remember I’m from the UK.LOL.

The Immortal Soul​

Matthew 10:28 ESV / 1,067 helpful votes​

And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Ezekiel 18:4 ESV / 1,037 helpful votes​

Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die.

Genesis 2:7 ESV / 1,036 helpful votes​

Then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.

Romans 6:23 ESV / 880 helpful votes​

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Eleanor]

That's right...

But why do we call him the GodMan, instead of the equally correct ManGod?

It's because even though his Natures are equal in Christ each at %100 of his Being, his Deity always has Preeminence...

Agreed, but not to the diminishment of the human, just as in the Trinity, there is an order of function where the Son is subject to the Father and the Holy Spirit is subject to both, but there is no diminishment of any.

 

[Eleanor]

Ah right...and we have that immortal spirit within us...the Holy Spirit.?

Anyway I will leave you to it....why are you proud that I’m able to keep up.LOL..ha!!

American humor. . .backward way of saying one is impressed with the other's ability.

A runnin buddy..what’s that?..remember I’m from the UK.LOL.

Didn't realize that. . .a runnin' buddy refers to two traveling together in separate vehicles.
In this case, I'm using it of someone to "hang in there" with me in the dialogue.

I won't burden you with anymore American slang.

 

[Ritajanice]

American humor. . .backward way of saying one is impressed with the other's ability.

The thing is though @Eleanor ....we get all of our spiritual knowledge from the Holy Spirit.

It doesn’t come from us...LOL.

 

[Eleanor]

There are many ways we can look at this from various angles , for example ;

Does God sleep
Does God get tired
Does God hunger
Does God thirst
Does God grow
Does God learn
Does God not know some things
And can God die

One thing we do know is that God became man known as the Incarnation. And we know Christ is a Divine Person. Natures don't sleep, eat or die- people do

However, natures absolutely determine what the creature is, which absolutely determines what the creature does.

So it can be said with all the above since Christ is God , He experienced all of the above. We cannot separate the Person from the nature. Christ is One Divine Person having 2 natures- both Divine and human. So it took the Incarnation for God to die on the cross since God cannot die if He did not become human. Its because Christ is fully God that there is Immeasurable value in His life, death and Resurrection. Where man (adam ) failed God made sure there would be no failure in the Incarnation. In a sense He is Superman, Superhuman without flaw, without sin, without the ability to fail hence He was/is Impeccable. The Incarnation was always the plan to defeat sin, sin and the devil. To undue what the first adam failed to do and Redeem us by His life, death and Resurrection. Christ was bullet proof so to speak when it came to sin and temptation. He was just as infallible as His Father. He always said and did what He saw His Father saying and doing because He was/is God in the flesh. The only difference between the Son and the Father during His earthly life was that He willingly lived in submission to the Father to fulfill the law, prophecy and defeat sin, death and the devil. He willingly laid aside His rights/privileges as God and to use them to His own advantage and live as a man to accomplish salvation for sinners as per Philippians 2.

Previously addressed.

BTW- death does not mean ceasing to exist. Death is a separation of the body from the soul/spirit .

 

[Bob Carabbio]

However, that is not why Jesus was baptized; i.e., repentance. There were several reasons Jesus was baptized:

1) to fulfill all righteousness - consecrating himself to God, whose approval was officially shown in the descent of the Holy Spirit and the words of the Father (Mt 3:16-17),
2) therein John publicly announced the arrival of the Messiah and beginning of his ministry (Jn 1:31-34),
3) identifying himself with man's sin and failure (not his own), becoming our substitute (2 Co 5:21) and
4) as an example to his followers (Mt 28:19).

So since some things CHANGED, there WAS a "Repentance" which only indicates a "Change in direction".

 

[Eleanor]

So since some things CHANGED, there WAS a "Repentance" which only indicates a "Change in direction".

Repentance is change of heart, from unbelief to belief, from rebellion to submission, from disobedience to obedience.

No change occurred in the heart of Jesus.

 

[civic]

Repentance is change of heart, from unbelief to belief, from rebellion to submission, from disobedience to obedience.

No change occurred in the heart of Jesus.

Bob is not using the spiritual meaning of the word just the literal turning directions like in 180 degree. So you both are right lol.

 

[Eleanor]

Bob is not using the spiritual meaning of the word just the literal turning directions like in 180 degree. So you both are right lol.

Thanks.

The spiritual meaning of the word is the only one that applies to John's baptism, and that is our subject.

 

[David1701]

I would say the Converse is True; he is not a Divine Person but a Human Person having a Divine Nature. %100 x %100 = 1...

It looks to me as it's an entirely equal Union. Two %100's projected onto the wall saying 1...

Please reconsider, brother.

When you say that Jesus was not a "Divine Person", you are not making it equal; rather, you are making the divine nature to subsist under Jesus' humanity, which is back-to front! Also, if Jesus were not a divine person, then where did his eternally divine personhood go, when he incarnated?

Your statement is wrong, and dangerously so.

 

[ReverendRV]

Please reconsider, brother.

When you say that Jesus was not a "Divine Person", you are not making it equal; rather, you are making the divine nature to subsist under Jesus' humanity, which is back-to front! Also, if Jesus were not a divine person, then where did his eternally divine personhood go, when he incarnated?

Your statement is wrong, and dangerously so.

I'm not claiming what you think I'm claiming Brother. The Divine Nature cannot Subsist under the Human Nature. Jesus is a Divine Person...

I believe correctly like the rest of Y'all. Since y'all know me and know what I believe, when I say something, y'all should Presume I have correct Theology; even when I bumfuzzle y'all with the way I word things...

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Repentance is change of heart, from unbelief to belief, from rebellion to submission, from disobedience to obedience.

No change occurred in the heart of Jesus.

Your definition of "Repent" is WAY TOO NARROW. It simply means to "Change direction"

 

[Eleanor]

Your definition of "Repent" is WAY TOO NARROW. It simply means to "Change direction"

And in relation to salvation, it means a change of heart, mind and life

 

[civic]

Please reconsider, brother.

When you say that Jesus was not a "Divine Person", you are not making it equal; rather, you are making the divine nature to subsist under Jesus' humanity, which is back-to front! Also, if Jesus were not a divine person, then where did his eternally divine personhood go, when he incarnated?

Your statement is wrong, and dangerously so.

Ditto

 

[Bob Carabbio]

And in relation to salvation, it means a change of heart, mind and life

BECAUSE in the case of normal unregenerate HUMANS, there's ALWAYS a SIN ISSUE, and spiritual blindness to be resolved.

In Jesus' case, since there was no SIN ISSUE, only HIS "life" changed - from being head of Mary's household in Joseph's absence, to being an itinerant preacher on His way to the Cross.

 

[Eleanor]

BECAUSE in the case of normal unregenerate HUMANS, there's ALWAYS a SIN ISSUE, and spiritual blindness to be resolved.

In Jesus' case, since there was no SIN ISSUE, only HIS "life" changed - from being head of Mary's household in Joseph's absence, to being an itinerant preacher on His way to the Cross.

Which is not the meaning of the repentance of John's baptism.

 

[Agra Man]

@Eleanor and @civic After reading both your discussion though perhaps not all of it it seems to me your both on point just speaking it in a different way.
Yes he is both God and man divine and human we are made in his image after all and when we are saved we are not just flesh and bone anymore not just guman we are also made like him both human and spirit.

You worship him as his person not the natures you worship him because he is God and also man showing the unity the father is desiring. you praise him for what he has done and what is going to do and if you worship him in spirit and in truth it isn't a question of what nature it is simply out of love for who he is it is like that of a heart of a child your not complicating anything your just showering him with your adoration love admiration and devotion

The children who sat with Jesus consider deeply why he said we are to be like them.

 

[civic]

@Eleanor and @civic After reading both your discussion though perhaps not all of it it seems to me your both on point just speaking it in a different way.
Yes he is both God and man divine and human we are made in his image after all and when we are saved we are not just flesh and bone anymore not just guman we are also made like him both human and spirit.

You worship him as his person not the natures you worship him because he is God and also man showing the unity the father is desiring. you praise him for what he has done and what is going to do and if you worship him in spirit and in truth it isn't a question of what nature it is simply out of love for who he is it is like that of a heart of a child your not complicating anything your just showering him with your adoration love admiration and devotion

The children who sat with Jesus consider deeply why he said we are to be like them.

I think we are pretty close except on the human nature of Jesus and Him being only a Divine Person. Because He is a Divine Person He is Impeccable and has all the same exact attributes as the Father lacking none while walking this earth. This is important for several reasons one specifically which is deemed heretical by the church, orthodoxy is the false doctrine of kenosis- giving up His Deity for 33 years on earth. I have known many who subtly have let it creep into their theology with Christ humanity being over emphasized where His Deity is put on the shelf as though it didn't exist. His Person is Divine, not human so that must always be in the forefront when we read scripture. His humanity was in subjection to His Deity not the other way around. As God the Son, the 2nd Person of the Trinity He laid aside His rights to use them to His advantage and was in submission to the Father to accomplish Gods ( Trinity ) will in regards to salvation, sin, death and the devil and fulfill all the law. And we must remember all the spiritual forces of His day knew who He was and they ( the demons) pleaded for His mercy. He was their Creator and the One who cast them out of heaven and Judged them for their rebellion. He veiled His identity to the rest of humanity with the exception of the disciples and a few He healed that worshiped Him.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Which is not the meaning of the repentance of John's baptism.

But it IS the meaning of "Repentance". God repented occasionally, but there was no "SIN" involved.

 

[Deleted member 6]

But it IS the meaning of "Repentance". God repented occasionally, but there was no "SIN" involved.

Numbers 23:19?