The 2 Natures in Christ

[Deleted member 6]

I can't help it if you don't like what Scriptures say.

No, I LOVE what scripture actually says, not your warped take on it.

 

[Ritajanice]

No, I LOVE what scripture actually says, not your warped take on it.

I see you in that ring...

 

[Predestined]

From the RCC.

"The Doxology". is commonly used in many Christian traditions, including the Roman Catholics, Old Catholics, Independent Catholics, Orthodox, Lutherans, Anglicans, Presbyterians, Methodists, Disciples of Christ, Reformed Baptists and United Protestants

The term Roman Catholic emerged between 1515 and 1535 But doxologies had been around since the first century.

Other biblical examples of doxologies include:

Ephesians 1:3 – “Blessed is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavens in Christ.”

Ephesians 5:14 – “Get up sleeper, and rise up from the dead, and Christ will shine on you.”

Romans 11:36 – “From Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To him be the glory forever. Amen.”

1 Timothy 3:16 – “He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.”

This is not an exclusive list, but anyone can see that the prominence of doxology praises and hymns in the Bible.

So don't be too fast in giving all the credit to the RCC

 

[Eleanor]

Perhaps I didn't say that right my main point was that it was because of his divinity that he was human yet not subject to the sin of the flesh. He is fully human and fully God.

If by subject to sin, you mean not able to sin, that is not the case.
Like Adam, he was able to sin. His divinity did not protect his humanity from sinning.
His obedience is the reason he did not sin.

 

[Eleanor]

"The Doxology". is commonly used in many Christian traditions, including the Roman Catholics, Old Catholics, Independent Catholics, Orthodox, Lutherans, Anglicans, Presbyterians, Methodists, Disciples of Christ, Reformed Baptists and United Protestants

The term Roman Catholic emerged between 1515 and 1535 But doxologies had been around since the first century.

Other biblical examples of doxologies include:

Ephesians 1:3 – “Blessed is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavens in Christ.”

Ephesians 5:14 – “Get up sleeper, and rise up from the dead, and Christ will shine on you.”

Romans 11:36 – “From Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To him be the glory forever. Amen.”

1 Timothy 3:16 – “He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.”

This is not an exclusive list, but anyone can see that the prominence of doxology praises and hymns in the Bible.

So don't be too fast in giving all the credit to the RCC

Credit for only that one goes to the RCC.

 

[civic]

If by subject to sin, you mean not able to sin, that is not the case.
Like Adam, he was able to sin. His divinity did not protect his humanity from sinning.
His obedience is the reason he did not sin.

Only partly true- you have obedience right. But Christ was Impeccable because His Person is Divine, not human. Natures don't sin, persons sin.

The difference between the 1st and 2nd Adams. The 2nd Adam was God ( disobedience impossible ) , the 1st adam was not God ( disobedience was inevitable) . The 1st Adam was not impeccable, the 2nd Adam was Impeccable.

 

[civic]

Impeccable Salvation ~ by ReverendRV * May 26

Hebrews 2:18 ESV; For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

This verse is speaking of Jesus Christ. Here we learn much about what Temptation is; and what it isn’t. The Bible tells us that Jesus lived a life without Sinning; so automatically we learn that being Tempted is not a Sin in and of itself. You say, “But that’s Jesus, he couldn’t Sin since he’s God.” ~ There is a debate within the Church whether or not Jesus could have Sinned; whether he was Peccable (vulnerable to Sin) or Impeccable (invulnerable to Sin). A reason Christians debate it, is because of the Chalcedonian Creed; it confesses that Jesus is %100 God and %100 Man, but One person; and this Union is achieved without mixing the Natures of God and Man. Since Christ’s nature is unmixed, was his Humanity as Peccable as Adam’s Humanity was? ~ There isn’t enough room here to defend one view over the other, but I will say I believe that Jesus was Peccable like Adam and Eve were; they fell into Sin. Because of this, the whole world also fell with them; we are now even more Peccable than they were. Have you ever told a Lie? See how much easier it is for us to Sin? ~ You object, “Then how in the world did Jesus NOT Sin in his life??”

The devil could say Jesus had an unfair advantage. The Bible tells us Jesus was full of the Holy Spirit more than anyone else. Also, God himself made a Covenant amongst the persons of the Trinity, that he would Save his People. Another reason is because of God’s Sovereign Providence. ~ Wouldn’t you say that this IS fair, because Jesus suppressed the expression of his Divinity in order to live on the level of An Unfallen Adam? Jesus Christ is called the Second Adam for a reason; he is our Second Chance! Sin entered the world through one Man, and death through Sin, and in this way death came to all people because all Sinned. By the Trespass of the first Man, death reigned through that Man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of Grace and the gift of Righteousness rule in life through the second Man! Receive the gift of Righteousness by having Faith in the resurrected Jesus Christ as your Lord God and Savior. Repent of Sin and find a Church that Loves the Bible; one that will teach that your Eternal Security is Impeccable…

Should you be worried that you can lose your Salvation? Yes and no; Christians also debate about this. There are Verses that teach we should beware, but there are Verses that comfort us when it comes to our Eternal Security. I support the Doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints; this is believed by many Evangelicals. It teaches both sides of the coin when it comes to being Secure or not; IE Compatibility. ~ But ultimately I side with Once Saved Always Saved; because like Peccability versus Impeccability, there are other things that tip the scales. Jesus said that he would lose NONE of his people; that’s good enough for me. Your Salvation is Impeccable because your Savior is Impeccable. Confess Christ as Lord and you will be Forgiven of your Sins…

John 3:16 KJV; For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Yes indeed our Savior was/is Impeccable. Amen !

 

[civic]

Could Jesus have sinned from Got?

There are two sides to this interesting question. It is important to remember that this is not a question of whether Jesus sinned. Both sides agree, as the Bible clearly says, that Jesus did not sin (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:22). The question is whether Jesus could have sinned. Those who hold to “impeccability” believe that Jesus could not have sinned. Those who hold to “peccability” believe that Jesus could have sinned, but did not. Which view is correct? The clear teaching of Scripture is that Jesus was impeccable—Jesus could not have sinned. If He could have sinned, He would still be able to sin today because He retains the same essence He did while living on earth. He is the God-Man and will forever remain so, having full deity and full humanity so united in one person as to be indivisible. To believe that Jesus could sin is to believe that God could sin. “For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him” (Colossians 1:19). Colossians 2:9 adds, “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.”

Although Jesus is fully human, He was not born with the sinful nature that we are born with. He certainly was tempted in the same way we are, in that temptations were put before Him by Satan, yet He remained sinless because God is incapable of sinning. It is against His very nature (Matthew 4:1; Hebrews 2:18, 4:15; James 1:13). Sin is by definition a trespass of the Law. God created the Law, and the Law is by nature what God would or would not do; therefore, sin is anything that God would not do by His very nature.

To be tempted is not, in and of itself, sinful. A person could tempt you with something you have no desire to do, such as committing murder or participating in sexual perversions. You probably have no desire whatsoever to take part in these actions, but you were still tempted because someone placed the possibility before you. There are at least two definitions for the word “tempted”:

1) To have a sinful proposition suggested to you by someone or something outside yourself or by your own sin nature.

2) To consider actually participating in a sinful act and the possible pleasures and consequences of such an act to the degree that the act is already taking place in your mind.

The first definition does not describe a sinful act/thought; the second does. When you dwell upon a sinful act and consider how you might be able to bring it to pass, you have crossed the line of sin. Jesus was tempted in the fashion of definition one except that He was never tempted by a sin nature because it did not exist within Him. Satan proposed certain sinful acts to Jesus, but He had no inner desire to participate in the sin. Therefore, He was tempted like we are but remained sinless.

Those who hold to peccability believe that, if Jesus could not have sinned, He could not have truly experienced temptation, and therefore could not truly empathize with our struggles and temptations against sin. We have to remember that one does not have to experience something in order to understand it. God knows everything about everything. While God has never had the desire to sin, and has most definitely never sinned, God knows and understands what sin is. God knows and understands what it is like to be tempted. Jesus can empathize with our temptations because He knows, not because He has “experienced” all the same things we have.

Jesus knows what it is like to be tempted, but He does not know what it is like to sin. This does not prevent Him from assisting us. We are tempted with sins that are common to man (1 Corinthians 10:13). These sins generally can be boiled down to three different types: “the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life” (1 John 2:16 NKJV). Examine the temptation and sin of Eve, as well as the temptation of Jesus, and you will find that the temptations for each came from these three categories. Jesus was tempted in every way and in every area that we are, but remained perfectly holy. Although our corrupt natures will have the inner desire to participate in some sins, we have the ability, through Christ, to overcome sin because we are no longer slaves to sin but rather slaves of God (Romans 6, especially verses 2 and 16-22).

 

[Predestined]

Credit for only that one goes to the RCC.

Fair enough, I can go for that. https://www.episcopalchurch.org/glo...the opening words of the acclamation in Latin.

 

[civic]

Fair enough, I can go for that. https://www.episcopalchurch.org/glossary/gloria-patri/#:~:text=A short acclamation of praise to the Trinity.,the opening words of the acclamation in Latin.

I didn't know the Episcopal church was the RCC. wink wink

 

[Predestined]

I didn't know the Episcopal church was the RCC. wink wink

Close, They're Protestant yet Catholic you might say they have two natures. They look at the Church of England merely as the “mother church.”

The Episcopal Church believes in the priesthood of all believers, although it maintains the historic pattern of ordained ministry: deacon, priest, and bishop. All three orders are open to persons of any gender identity and sexual orientation. The Episcopal Church considers itself to be somewhere between Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, integrating the best of both traditions. As such, Episcopalians often describe their spirituality as the Media Via or the Middle Way.

Just when you thought it was safe to go in the water.

 

[Eleanor]

Only partly true- you have obedience right. But Christ was Impeccable because His Person is Divine, not human. Natures don't sin, persons sin.
The difference between the 1st and 2nd Adams. The 2nd Adam was God ( disobedience impossible ) , the 1st adam was not God ( disobedience was inevitable) . The 1st Adam was not impeccable, the 2nd Adam was Impeccable.

Previously addressed.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

If by subject to sin, you mean not able to sin, that is not the case.
Like Adam, he was able to sin. His divinity did not protect his humanity from sinning.
His obedience is the reason he did not sin.

BINGO!!! If JeSUS "COULDN'T SIN", then he WAS NEVER tempted in every respect AS WE ARE!!!

 

[David1701]

I didn't know the Episcopal church was the RCC. wink wink

It was, until Henry VIII decided that he wanted another annulment and the "Pope" wouldn't give him one. Anglicanism is a kind of halfway house between genuine Christianity and Romanism.

 

[Agra Man]

If by subject to sin, you mean not able to sin, that is not the case.
Like Adam, he was able to sin. His divinity did not protect his humanity from sinning.
His obedience is the reason he did not sin.

Yes he was able to sin after all temptation is called temptation for a reason but being both God and human not born into this world in corrupted flesh he was the only one able to live a life free from sin had anyoine else tried they would have failed.

 

[civic]

It was, until Henry VIII decided that he wanted another annulment and the "Pope" wouldn't give him one. Anglicanism is a kind of halfway house between genuine Christianity and Romanism.

Thanks its been a while since I looked into that denomination.

 

[civic]

Previously addressed.

A link or a post number would be nice. Thanks

 

[civic]

If by subject to sin, you mean not able to sin, that is not the case.
Like Adam, he was able to sin. His divinity did not protect his humanity from sinning.
His obedience is the reason he did not sin.

He was Impeccable as God therefor could not sin.

 

[civic]

Yes he was able to sin after all temptation is called temptation for a reason but being both God and human not born into this world in corrupted flesh he was the only one able to live a life free from sin had anyoine else tried they would have failed.

read this and let me know what you think, thanks

https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/the-2-natures-in-christ.520/page-7#post-15306

 

[civic]

Close, They're Protestant yet Catholic you might say they have two natures. They look at the Church of England merely as the “mother church.”

The Episcopal Church believes in the priesthood of all believers, although it maintains the historic pattern of ordained ministry: deacon, priest, and bishop. All three orders are open to persons of any gender identity and sexual orientation. The Episcopal Church considers itself to be somewhere between Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, integrating the best of both traditions. As such, Episcopalians often describe their spirituality as the Media Via or the Middle Way.

Just when you thought it was safe to go in the water.

Thanks for letting me know I've been out of touch with them for quite a few years.