The Deity of Christ

[Questions]

John 8: 29- And He who sent me is with me; He has not left me alone, for I always do what is pleasing to Him.”

In what way?

 

[Questions]

John 8:38- I speak of what I have seen with my Father, and you do what you have heard from your father.”

The same with Churchianity.

 

[Arial]

John 1:3- all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.

John 1:1 is an echo of Gen 1. "God said 'Let there be---be" and there was. The actual statement of God's purpose had power in itself. The word of God is the work of God. What he is doing and his purpose and the "it was so" is the power of the word, come to pass.

From "Knowing God" by J.I. Packer
1. " In the beginning was the Word." (John 1:1) Here is the Word's eternity. He had no beginning of his own: when other things began he -was.
2. "And the Word was with God"(1:1). Here is the Word's personality. The power that fulfills God's purposes is the power of a distinct personal being, one who stands in an eternal relation to God of active fellowship (this is what the phrase means).
3. "And the Word was God" (1:1). Here is the Word's deity. Though personally distinct from the Father, he is not a creature; he is divine in himself, as the Father is. The mystery of personal distinctions within the unity of the Godhead.
4. "Through him all things were made" (1:3). Here is the Word creating. He was the Father's agent in every act of making that the Father has ever performed. All that was made was made through him. (Here incidentally is further proof that the Maker, does not belong to the class of things made, any more than the Father does.)
5. "In him was life" (1:4). Here is the Word animating. There is no life in the physical realm of created things except in and through him. Here is the Bible answer to the problem of the origin and continuance of life, in all its forms: life is given and maintained by the Word. Created things do not have life in themselves, but life in the Word, the second person of the Godhead.
6. "And that life was the light of men (1:4). Here is the Word revealing. In giving life he gives light too; that is to say, all people receive intimate knowledge of God from the very fact of being alive in God's world, and this no less, than the fact that they are alive, is do to the work of the Word.
7. "The Word became flesh" (1:14). Here is the Word incarnate. The baby in the manger at Bethlehem was none other than the eternal Word of God.

And now, having shown us who and what the Word is--a divine Person, author of all things--John indicates an identification. The Word he tells us, was revealed by the Incarnation to be God's Son. (End of quote from Packer.)

Just giving your opinion of what something means with no work put into demonstrating its truthfulness will not fool a single person on this forum. The rest of us here are here to have profitable conversations that actually deal with God's word head on and in an honest way., with integrity and respect and honor towards God.

 

[Questions]

One of the most abused scriptures:

John 8:58-Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

First of all- Jehovah never said anything such. (Ex 3) The symbolic Title meant "I will prove to be what I will prove to be", and then identified Himself as Jehovah..'
Second, the issue is actually not about Jesus’ identity/existence, but it’s really about his age–whether he was alive when Abraham was alive. Let’s look at the context to see this:

“‘Your father Abraham as he looked forward to my coming. He saw it and was glad.’ The people said, ‘You aren’t even fifty years old. How can you say you have seen Abraham?'”

When the scripture is accurately translated, the issue also clears up even more:

“Jesus said to them, truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham was born, I was”—John 8:58

 

[Questions]

Another abused scripture

John 10: 29- My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
30- I and the Father are one.”

And despite the fact that Jesus said his Father is GREATER THAN ALL- they say Jesus supported the Trinity!
Ho-hum.
And IGNORE what he said a little while later_
John 17:20- I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word,
21- that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Might there be 12 to add to the Trinity?

 

[Questions]

John 10: 33- The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we stone you but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, make yourself God.

That's what the Trinnies claim! Let see Jesus' reply!

34- Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, you are Gods’?
35- If he called them Gods to whom the word of God came (and scripture cannot be broken),
36- do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the SON of God’?

 

[Questions]

John 11: 39- Jesus said, “Take away the stone.” Martha, the sister of the dead man, said to him, “Lord, by this time there will be an odor, for he has been dead four days.”
40- Jesus said to her, “Did I not tell you that if you would believe you would see the glory of God?”
41- So they took away the stone. And Jesus lifted up his eyes and said, “Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.
42- I knew that thou hearest me always, but I have said this on account of the people standing by, that they may believe that thou didst send me.” 43- When he had said this, he cried with a loud voice, “Laz′arus, come out.”
44- The dead man came out, his hands and feet bound with bandages, and his face wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them, “Unbind him, and let him go.”

Christ ruling thru God's power, and showing there no such thing as a 'immortal' soul!

 

[Questions]

John 12:28- Father, glorify thy name.” Then a voice came from heaven, “I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again.”
29- The crowd standing by heard it and said that it had thundered. Others said, “An angel has spoken to him.”

Did One God speak to Another?

 

[Questions]

Did One God SEND Another?

John 12:44- And Jesus cried out and said, “He who believes in me, believes not in me but in Him who sent me."

 

[Questions]

John 12: 48- He who rejects me and does not receive my sayings has a judge; the word that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.
49- For I have not spoken on my own authority; the Father who sent me has Himself given me commandment what to say and what to speak.

So we see here that God tells his son son what to say.

 

[Fred]

John 1:3- all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.
Heb 1:1- In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets;
2- but in these last days He has spoken to us by a son, whom He appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.
3 He reflects the glory of God and bears the very stamp of his nature, upholding the universe by His word of power. When he had made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
4- having become as much superior to angels as the name he has obtained is more excellent than theirs. [Jesus]

Notice how the SAME THING is spoken about him, also identifying him a the foremost messenger of HIs messengers (angels)!
Now what's the New Name given him- and what was it previous?

Thanks for proving Jesus is God, for the work of creation was done by God alone (Job 9:8; Isaiah 44:24).

 

[makesends]

John 8:16- Yet even if I do judge, my judgment is true, for it is not I alone that judge, but I and He who sent me.
17- In your law it is written that the testimony of two men is true;
18- I bear witness to myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness to me.”
19- They said to him therefore, “Where is your Father?” Jesus answered, “You know neither me nor my Father; if you knew me, you would know my Father also.”

Jesus said his God was separate.

Have you never considered the notion that God the Son was able to set aside his prerogatives as God, to live as you and I should? That doesn't mean he was no longer God. In fact, his "God-hood" is demonstrated in his perfect ability to do just that, yet to live without sin.

John 8: 29- And He who sent me is with me; He has not left me alone, for I always do what is pleasing to Him.”

In what way?

Have you never considered that he lived as we should? As a human in perfect submission to his Father and God.

 

[Odë:hgöd]

19- They said to him therefore, “Where is your Father?” Jesus answered, “You know neither me nor my Father; if you knew me, you would know my Father also.”

Jesus said his God was separate.

My son and I are separate individuals. However, though my son and I are separate
individuals we are unified by blood, viz: my son is my paternal offspring, thus he
and I are both h.sapiens. In other words: when my son was born, he did not come
into this world as an alien form of life different than my own own.

The new testament presents the Word's humanity as God's direct descendant, i.e. as the
supreme being's paternal offspring-- in point of fact the supreme being's one and only
paternal offspring. (John 1:18, John 3:16, John 3:18, 1John 4:9)

The thing is: were God were to actually reproduce, He would multiply Himself, viz:
God would produce God just as when h.sapiens reproduce, they produce h.sapiens,
and when coyotes reproduce they produce coyotes, carpenter ants produce carpenter
ants, pelicans produce pelicans, and lobsters produce lobsters, etc.
_

 

[makesends]

My son and I are separate individuals. However, though my son and I are separate
individuals we are unified by blood, viz: my son is my paternal offspring, thus he
and I are both h.sapiens. In other words: when my son was born, he did not come
into this world as an alien form of life different than my own own.

The new testament presents the Word's humanity as God's direct descendant, i.e. as the
supreme being's paternal offspring-- in point of fact the supreme being's one and only
paternal offspring. (John 1:18, John 3:16, John 3:18, 1John 4:9)

The thing is: were God were to actually reproduce, He would multiply Himself, viz:
God would produce God just as when h.sapiens reproduce, they produce h.sapiens,
and when coyotes reproduce they produce coyotes, carpenter ants produce carpenter
ants, pelicans produce pelicans, and lobsters produce lobsters, etc.
_

Logically, First Cause cannot multiply himself. There can be only one God.

 

[Carbon]

You have ONE God with ANOTHER...

You obviously do not know God.

 

[Odë:hgöd]

There can be only one God.

The Bible says that we all descend from a common ancestor,

● Gen 3:20 . . Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of
all the living.

● Acts 17:26 . . From one man he made every nation of men, that they should
inhabit the whole earth

The thing is: although Adam's posterity consists of many millions of individuals, his
posterity does not count as many millions of Adams; no; we count as only the one
Adam, i.e. the one Man.

In like manner, though God were to reproduce many times over, His posterity
would not count as a multitude of Gods, no; they would count as only the one God.

The most effective way to stop me from being Man is to break my paternal connection
to Adam. In like manner: the most effective way to stop Christ from being divine is to
break his paternal connection to God. In point of fact, were I an anti-trinitarian,
that's the place where I would launch an all-out attack. The Jehovah's Witnesses have
been been trying that route for some time, but thus far haven't been all that successful.
_

 

[makesends]

The Bible says that we all descend from a common ancestor,

● Gen 3:20 . . Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of
all the living.

● Acts 17:26 . . From one man he made every nation of men, that they should
inhabit the whole earth

The thing is: although Adam's posterity consists of many millions of individuals, his
posterity does not count as many millions of Adams; no; we count as only the one
Adam, i.e. the one Man.

In like manner, though God were to reproduce many times over, His posterity
would not count as a multitude of Gods, no; they would count as only the one God.

The most effective way to stop me from being Man is to break my paternal connection
to Adam. In like manner: the most effective way to stop Christ from being divine is to
break his paternal connection to God. In point of fact, were I an anti-trinitarian,
that's the place where I would launch an all-out attack. The Jehovah's Witnesses have
been been trying that route for some time, but thus far haven't been all that successful.
_

The comparing Adam procreating to God procreating does not follow.

But besides that, you contradict yourself in saying here, "though God were to reproduce many times over, His posterity would not count as a multitude of Gods, no; they would count as only the one God." when, before, you said, "were God were to actually reproduce, He would multiply Himself."

But, regardless, God did not multiply himself to produce an offspring. The Son of God IS the creator. He did not become, but IS self-existent, without beginning or ending.

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.
The status of born-again Christians in God's family circle is that of adopted children.
(Rom 8:15, Gal 4:5, Eph 1:15)

Jesus' status is many times more superior than theirs because he's in God's family
circle as a paternal child; in point of fact, God's one and only paternal child. (John
1:14 John 1:18 John 3:16, John 3:18, 1John 4:9)

Regardless of how people believe Jesus might've obtained his status, and regardless
of whether his status is actual or administrative, Jesus' status entitles him to be
known as God's direct descendant, which automatically entitles Jesus to known as a
deity because divine children are the only kind of direct descendants that God can
produce; just as human children are the only kind of direct descendants that a man
can produce.

* I'm not proposing that Jesus' and God's association is biological. The thing is: I
don't know how else to explain their situation except in terms we all understand.
_

 

[Hazelelponi]

.
The status of born-again Christians in God's family circle is that of adopted children.
(Rom 8:15, Gal 4:5, Eph 1:15)

Jesus' status is many times more superior than theirs because he's in God's family
circle as a paternal child; in point of fact, God's one and only paternal child. (John
1:14 John 1:18 John 3:16, John 3:18, 1John 4:9)

Regardless of how people believe Jesus might've obtained his status, and regardless
of whether his status is actual or administrative, Jesus' status entitles him to be
known as God's direct descendant, which automatically entitles Jesus to known as a
deity because divine children are the only kind of direct descendants that God can
produce; just as human children are the only kind of direct descendants that a man
can produce.

* I'm not proposing that Jesus' and God's association is biological. The thing is: I
don't know how else to explain their situation except in terms we all understand.
_

What you’ve done with that kind of word framing is reduce Jesus Christ to a mere demi-god—and that’s both theologically and Scripturally indefensible.

First of all, God is in a class by Himself. There’s no scientific or philosophical category broad enough to contain Him. If we had to call it something, it would simply be the God class—utterly unique, without equal, without peer.

He alone occupies that space, and the best we can do is use the language He has given us to describe what He has revealed of Himself. Even then, we speak as finite creatures trying to grasp the Infinite.

Jesus Christ is never, not once, presented in Scripture as the product of God procreating, or as some lesser divine being. He is not framed as a demi-god. Instead, Scripture declares:

“God with us.” (Matthew 1:23)
“He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of His nature.” (Hebrews 1:3)

Not a demi-god. Not half-God, half-man. But fully God and fully man—God in the flesh, in a form we can behold, draw near to, and be redeemed by.

This is not a lesser expression of deity, but the fullness of God dwelling bodily (cf. Colossians 2:9)—the personal God who relates to us and redeems us. He is not otherworldly in the sense of being unknowable, but He is transcendent in power and near in grace.

 

[Eleanor]

Very Good! Christ IS our ONLY master and lord- but he is NOT God- he said so many times!

Present three examples from the NT.