The 2 Natures in Christ

[Eleanor]

God is Dead ~ by ReverendRV * April 24

Matthew 27:50 KJV; Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

Can God die? The famous Philosopher Neitsche said, “God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods, simply to appear worthy of it?” ~ But you ask, “How can WE kill God??”. Philosophers have been taking a stab at killing God for years, sooner or later they will deliver a mortal wound. Some Philosophers say “If it is legitimate to argue against the existence of God, then the existence of God is legitimized”. Atheist admit they are arguing against God for a Christian’s sake; but why would they continue to rally against a God when they’re amongst themselves? Isn’t that the epitome of Idolatry?

This might surprise you to hear, but God can die. ~ Have you ever wished someone were dead? Jesus said Hatred is Murder from your heart. Do you Hate God? If you find him contemptible for his actions or inactions, you despise him. You are then Like Neitsche and actually have killed God. Does it cause a little adrenaline to run through your chest at the thought you have broken his chains and cast off his bonds? You felt it; didn’t you? You now know that you delight in Murder. ~ Christians believe that God can die; let me explain. God became a Man in the person of Jesus Christ, and Biblical Death is called Separation from God.

Biblical death? Is not all death Biblical death; i.e., death according to Scripture?

Spiritual death is the absence of divine eternal life within the immortal human spirit.

I'm thinking if Christ suffered that death, then he was in the same state as the unregenerate, and would not have felt any need for God.
There is no desire for God in the unregenerated.
But God can withdaw his comfort, sense of his favor, presence (not being "with"you) and provision, leaving the redeemed one with a terrible sense of abandonment, as Jesus expressed on the cross.

Jesus became Sin on the Cross, and the midday sky turned black. The Divine Logos of God was irrevocably united to Jesus; Body and Soul: yet a legal Separation took place, even if there wasn’t an Essential Separation of God and Man in Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ died because of the Hatred of Men. ~ But there is bad news for you; Jesus is the LORD of Resurrection! You’ve Murdered a God who rises from the dead! Does this bother you? When you die, he will be on his Judgement Seat; and you will see that he WAS dead. God sends guilty Sinners to Hell for all eternity; you must be Forgiven or else…

Jesus Christ is the GodMan who lived a Sinless life and pleased God his Father. He came to make an Atonement for Sin, bleeding to death. He was buried for three days but rose from the dead; and is now the Judge of everyone’s destiny. We’re Saved by the Grace through Faith in the Risen Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, without Works lest we boast. Repent of your Sins, Confess Jesus as LORD and find a Bible believing Church. ~ Neitsche was wrong; God does not remain dead. God is comprised of a Trinity; and God never Separated! But because the Logos of God and Jesus of Nazareth became ‘One’, the Biblical definition of Death was met when Jesus died; even for God. The Bodily Resurrection removed the Legal Separation, thus God and Man were in Union again. ~ An angry and Vengeful God is on your trail…

Revelation 1:18 NIV; I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Hypostatic Union

1. Jesus is a person. (1 Tim 2:5)

Yup - a HUMAN BEING, with a HUMAN Nature just like you and me.

2. Jesus, the Person, has two natures-

However, so do we, whenever we are indwelled by the Holy Spirit. Jesus REPENTED (not of SIN, but of his lifestyle/conversation. Repentance only means the "Change your direction".) at John's baptism, and was immediately joined by by the Holy SPirit, and went into His earthly Ministry.

 

[civic]

Impeccable Salvation ~ by ReverendRV * May 26

Hebrews 2:18 ESV; For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

This verse is speaking of Jesus Christ. Here we learn much about what Temptation is; and what it isn’t. The Bible tells us that Jesus lived a life without Sinning; so automatically we learn that being Tempted is not a Sin in and of itself. You say, “But that’s Jesus, he couldn’t Sin since he’s God.” ~ There is a debate within the Church whether or not Jesus could have Sinned; whether he was Peccable (vulnerable to Sin) or Impeccable (invulnerable to Sin). A reason Christians debate it, is because of the Chalcedonian Creed; it confesses that Jesus is %100 God and %100 Man, but One person; and this Union is achieved without mixing the Natures of God and Man. Since Christ’s nature is unmixed, was his Humanity as Peccable as Adam’s Humanity was? ~ There isn’t enough room here to defend one view over the other, but I will say I believe that Jesus was Peccable like Adam and Eve were; they fell into Sin. Because of this, the whole world also fell with them; we are now even more Peccable than they were. Have you ever told a Lie? See how much easier it is for us to Sin? ~ You object, “Then how in the world did Jesus NOT Sin in his life??”

The devil could say Jesus had an unfair advantage. The Bible tells us Jesus was full of the Holy Spirit more than anyone else. Also, God himself made a Covenant amongst the persons of the Trinity, that he would Save his People. Another reason is because of God’s Sovereign Providence. ~ Wouldn’t you say that this IS fair, because Jesus suppressed the expression of his Divinity in order to live on the level of An Unfallen Adam? Jesus Christ is called the Second Adam for a reason; he is our Second Chance! Sin entered the world through one Man, and death through Sin, and in this way death came to all people because all Sinned. By the Trespass of the first Man, death reigned through that Man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of Grace and the gift of Righteousness rule in life through the second Man! Receive the gift of Righteousness by having Faith in the resurrected Jesus Christ as your Lord God and Savior. Repent of Sin and find a Church that Loves the Bible; one that will teach that your Eternal Security is Impeccable…

Should you be worried that you can lose your Salvation? Yes and no; Christians also debate about this. There are Verses that teach we should beware, but there are Verses that comfort us when it comes to our Eternal Security. I support the Doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints; this is believed by many Evangelicals. It teaches both sides of the coin when it comes to being Secure or not; IE Compatibility. ~ But ultimately I side with Once Saved Always Saved; because like Peccability versus Impeccability, there are other things that tip the scales. Jesus said that he would lose NONE of his people; that’s good enough for me. Your Salvation is Impeccable because your Savior is Impeccable. Confess Christ as Lord and you will be Forgiven of your Sins…

John 3:16 KJV; For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

And I will go on record saying satan was no match for God the Son- it was a lose lose situation from the start unlike adam. adam was not God only in His likeness. If satan has power( and he does ), then Christ has SUPER powers over all creation since He is the Creator and He holds all things together by His word. The angels were His to command and they begged Him not to send them away before their time. They were in subjection to Him while He walked this earth which is why He could cast them out by His command.

 

[Eleanor]

Only God is enthroned in Heaven, and he said,

Revelation 1:18 NIV; I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Jesus of Nazareth, of course, the God-man, wherein only the human body could die, for both human and divine spirits are immortal.

 

[ReverendRV]

Jesus of Nazareth, of course.

Amen. Jesus of Nazareth, the Logos of God...

Are you suggesting that the Logos of God didn't say it?

We need Systematic Theology Sister...

 

[civic]

Only God is enthroned in Heaven, and he said,

Revelation 1:18 NIV; I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

The great thing about your quote is our Lord is claiming to be YHWH in Revelation- the Lord God Almighty who was dead and lives forever more.

These passages in Revelation make it clear that Jesus is God. Remember it is Jesus in the NT who is Coming back to earth that every eye will see. It was Jesus who was pierced on the cross for our sins. John is clearly once again calling Jesus God!!!!!!! The Coming and the coming in the clouds never refers to the Father in the NT but always to Jesus.

Revelation 1:7-8
7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
8 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

We know from Revelation 1:8 that Alpha and Omega is the Almighty. So we can see that Christ is the Almighty

Revelation 1:17
17And when I saw Him, I fell at his feet as dead. And He laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I Am the first and the last:

We know from Revelation 1:17-18 that the first and the last is He that lives, was dead but is alive forevermore is Christ.

Revelation 2:8
"To the angel of the church in Smyrna write: These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.

Revelation 22:12-13
12 "Behold, I Am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. 13 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

We know from Revelation 22:13 that the first and the last is the Alpha and Omega.

Revelation 22:16,20
16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star."
20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I Am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

The immediate text clearly tells us that it was Jesus who was pierced and who is Coming in the clouds. This person coming in the clouds is God(Jesus-the Son of Man),

Daniel 7:13-14
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 "And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.

Matthew 24:30-31
30 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.

Matthew 26:64
Jesus said to him, "You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN."

1 Thessalonians 4:17-18
Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Revelation 1:7-8
7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
8 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

So we can see that the One who comes/is coming in the NT always refers to Jesus the Son of Man and NEVER refers to the Father. Therefore we can conclude it is Jesus who is coming whom John calls God the Alpha and Omega. This is sound biblical exegesis based on the context of the passage as well as the principle established in both Testaments on the One who is Coming in/with the Clouds- The Son of Man not the Father !!!!!!

Isaiah 44:6
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
'I am the first and I am the last,
And there is no God besides Me.

Isaiah 48:12
"Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called;
I am He, I am the first, I am also the last.

 

[Eleanor]

It's not an easy Doctrine to accept, because of the Chalcedonian Creed; God and Man are Unmixed in Christ...

Not being mixed, therefore, God does not die, not to mention the immortality of it all.

 

[ReverendRV]

The great thing about your quote is our Lord is claiming to be YHWH in Revelation- the Lord God Almighty who was dead and lives forever more.

These passages in Revelation make it clear that Jesus is God. Remember it is Jesus in the NT who is Coming back to earth that every eye will see. It was Jesus who was pierced on the cross for our sins. John is clearly once again calling Jesus God!!!!!!! The Coming and the coming in the clouds never refers to the Father in the NT but always to Jesus.

Revelation 1:7-8
7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
8 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

We know from Revelation 1:8 that Alpha and Omega is the Almighty. So we can see that Christ is the Almighty

Revelation 1:17
17And when I saw Him, I fell at his feet as dead. And He laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I Am the first and the last:

We know from Revelation 1:17-18 that the first and the last is He that lives, was dead but is alive forevermore is Christ.

Revelation 2:8
"To the angel of the church in Smyrna write: These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.

Revelation 22:12-13
12 "Behold, I Am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. 13 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

We know from Revelation 22:13 that the first and the last is the Alpha and Omega.

Revelation 22:16,20
16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star."
20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I Am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

The immediate text clearly tells us that it was Jesus who was pierced and who is Coming in the clouds. This person coming in the clouds is God(Jesus-the Son of Man),

Daniel 7:13-14
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 "And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.

Matthew 24:30-31
30 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.

Matthew 26:64
Jesus said to him, "You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN."

1 Thessalonians 4:17-18
Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Revelation 1:7-8
7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
8 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

So we can see that the One who comes/is coming in the NT always refers to Jesus the Son of Man and NEVER refers to the Father. Therefore we can conclude it is Jesus who is coming whom John calls God the Alpha and Omega. This is sound biblical exegesis based on the context of the passage as well as the principle established in both Testaments on the One who is Coming in/with the Clouds- The Son of Man not the Father !!!!!!

Isaiah 44:6
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
'I am the first and I am the last,
And there is no God besides Me.

Isaiah 48:12
"Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called;
I am He, I am the first, I am also the last.

The Communicatio Idiomatum makes the Lord even more awe inspiring; they shall look on him/God whom they pierced??

Everything they did to Jesus, they did to God! How Hateful are we?!

 

[Eleanor]

Yup - a HUMAN BEING, with a HUMAN Nature just like you and me.

However, so do we, whenever we are indwelled by the Holy Spirit. Jesus REPENTED (not of SIN, but of his lifestyle/conversation. Repentance only means the "Change your direction".) at John's baptism, and was immediately joined by by the Holy SPirit, and went into His earthly Ministry.

Refresh my memory, where do we find that Jesus repented?

 

[Eleanor]

Amen. Jesus of Nazareth, the Logos of God...

Are you suggesting that the Logos of God didn't say it?

We need Systematic Theology Sister...

Jesus of Nazareth said, "I was dead."

 

[civic]

Jesus of Nazareth said, "I was dead."

He is Speaking in Revelation as the Alpha and Omega, The First and the Last, The Lord God Almighty- YHWH.

 

[Eleanor]

He is Speaking in Revelation as the Alpha and Omega, The First and the Last, The Lord God Almighty- YHWH.

He is speaking as who he is, God-man, which is inseparable for all eternity.

 

[civic]

He is speaking as who he is, God-man, which is inseparable for all eternity.

He is calling Himself the Lord God Almighty who was dead and now lives forever. You cannot the Person from the natures. He acts as One Person- the Divine God the Son- the 2nd Person of the Trinity.

Natures do not die, people die. God the Son is a Person. He died. He is not a human person that is Nestorianism. He is a Divine Person.

 

[Eleanor]

He is calling Himself the Lord God Almighty who was dead and now lives forever. You cannot the Person from the natures. He acts as One Person- the Divine God the Son- the 2nd Person of the Trinity.

Natures do not die, people die. God the Son is a Person. He died. He is not a human person that is Nestorianism. He is a Divine Person.

Jesus is both a divine and human person as the result of his two natures. It is unavoidable due to the natures, two natures in one person, which person is both divine and human by nature.

 

[ReverendRV]

Jesus of Nazareth said, "I was dead."

Jesus of Nazareth, the Logos of God; said he was dead...

This is my description of the Hypostatic Union and the Communicatio Idiomatum...

When I was in school, teachers used Overhead Projectors to teach us things like Biology. They placed a Cellophane Slide on the Projector, and shined an image of the Circulatory System onto the wall. Then she laid another Cellophane Slide on the Projector, and it also shined an image of the Nervous System onto the wall; both Slides were One image on the Wall, all the while they remained two separate components on the Projector. ~ We can say the Chalcedonian Creed lays the Jesus of Nazareth Slide and the Logos of God Slide on the Overhead Projector, and their Properties are Communicated onto the Wall as One Image...

The Moral of the Story is; Jesus of Nazareth is the Image of the Invisible God. Which explains Jesus the Best? The two Unmixed Slides on the Projector, or the two inseparable Images projected onto the wall? The answer is, both equally describe Jesus correctly and best. Since Jesus is the Image of God, he is truly like the Communication of the Properties of two Slides onto the wall; the Nature of both Slides are One in him. At his Transfiguration, he Shined like that Projection on the Wall, and it's true that Jesus of Nazareth, the Logos of God; spoke the same thing in his one Voice simultaneously. What Jesus said, the Logos also said. Certainly this is true of what Jesus says in Heaven too; God said "I was Dead"...

But Jesus came and touched them. “Get up,” he said. “Don’t be afraid.” - Matthew 17:7 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew17:7&version=NIV

 

[Eleanor]

Jesus of Nazareth, the Logos of God; said he was dead...

This is my description of the Hypostatic Union and the Communicatio Idiomatum...

When I was in school, they used Overhead Projectors to teach us things like Biology. Teachers placed a Cellophane Slide on a Projector, and shined an image of the Circulatory System onto the wall. Then she laid another Cellophane Slide on the Projector, and it also shined an image of the Nervous System onto the wall; both Slides were One image on the Wall, all the while they remained two separate components on the Projector. ~ We can say the Chalcedonian Creed lays Jesus of Nazareth and the Logos of God on the Overhead Projector, and their Properties are Communicated onto the Wall as One Image...

The Moral of the Story is; Jesus of Nazareth is the Image of the Invisible God. Which explains Jesus the Best? The two Unmixed Slides on the Projector, or the two inseparable Images projected onto the wall? The answer is, both equally describe Jesus correctly and best. Since Jesus is the Image of God, he is truly like the Communication of the Properties of two Slides onto the wall; the Nature of both Slides are One in him. At his Transfiguration, he Shined like that Projection on the Wall, and it's true that Jesus of Nazareth, the Logos of God; spoke the same thing in his one Voice simultaneously. What Jesus said, the Logos also said. Certainly this is true of what Jesus says in Heaven too; God said "I was Dead"...

But Jesus came and touched them. “Get up,” he said. “Don’t be afraid.” - Matthew 17:7 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew17:7&version=NIV

As long as you keep in mind that the nervous system is not the circulatory system, though they are both the human body.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Refresh my memory, where do we find that Jesus repented?

John's Baptism was a baptism of REPENTANCE. Mat 3:11, Mark 1:4, Luke 3;3

 

[ReverendRV]

As long as you keep in mind that the nervous system is not the circulatory system, though they are both the human body.

I do...

But what about the Projection? When Jesus said, "I was Dead"; was it the Projection saying this, or just the Jesus of Nazareth Slide saying it?

Let's suppose the Logos of God Slide has written on it, "I am the Living One". Now suppose the Jesus of Nazareth Slide has written on it, "I was Dead but now I am Alive!". Okay, lets shine them onto the Wall with an Overhead Projector; what does the inseparable Image on the wall say now?

"I AM the Living One, I was Dead but now I am Alive!"


This is essentially the Communicatio Idiomatum...

 

[David1701]

Yup - a HUMAN BEING, with a HUMAN Nature just like you and me.

However, so do we, whenever we are indwelled by the Holy Spirit. Jesus REPENTED (not of SIN, but of his lifestyle/conversation. Repentance only means the "Change your direction".) at John's baptism, and was immediately joined by by the Holy SPirit, and went into His earthly Ministry.

Jesus' human nature was sinless, unlike ours was.

We do not have two natures. We have our redeemed human nature, and the Holy Spirit indwells us.

Jesus did not repent!!! He went through John's baptism of repentance "to fulfil all righteousness", not for his "lifestyle/conversation", which was already holy, but as the representative of his chosen people.

 

[civic]

He is speaking as who he is, God-man, which is inseparable for all eternity.

No He is speaking as God, His Person is Divine.