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Spiritually Brain Dead

Ok, this is where our conversation actually started and then went off on a tangent.

My question to you originally was about this choice you say you have when God reveals absolute truth to a human being.
In this revelation, the person is convicted of something unseen, and assurance of a hope of a Savior that will take away his/her guilt.

Do you agree with the above or does a revelation mean something different to you?
If they have been convicted then they have believed. You aren't convicted of things you don't believe are true.

And what do you even mean by "God reveals absolute truth"? Is there some other type of relative truth? Truth is truth, you either believe it when it is presented or you don't.
 
All people reject God.
All people are born not knowing God and no hope of knowing Him until He presents Himself. Only after He is revealed can He be rejected and if everyone rejected Him then no-one would be drawn to Christ.
 
No doubt.

Why did they choose wrong though? They get the same revelation you do right?
Why did you choose right, having the same revelation they have!

Why do you choose wrong?

You are always right?
 
Only according to your faulty logic!
Do you serve Him by doing your will or His will!
If He is glorified through you when you walk/act/do according to His will, does that make you a hand puppet!

I am not going to answer a question that was asked because someone distorted what I was saying.
He distorted it into something I did not say.
And, then wanted me to answer his question as if what I had said was his distortion.
 
How am I supposed to know why people desire what they do other than to say some love power more than truth, darkness more than light. Why did one third of the angels, who lived face to face with God, choose to rebel and never repent?
Are you implying that some people have a natural righteousness that makes them see past loving power over truth.
Can you see that you are making a distinction in man. That not all are depraved to the same level, but that some are more inclined to their depravity than others.
That's part of the mystery of evil. Just as evil will never relate to goodness, goodness cannot relate to evil. In other words, you and I will never know why some people choose not to believe.
Unless no one chooses to believe that which they do not understand.

What is logically more consistent?
 
If they have been convicted then they have believed. You aren't convicted of things you don't believe are true.
I am asking if ALL MEN are convicted by God in the revelation He gives.
What is your belief system! Is it not that all men receive the same revelation and conviction?
And what do you even mean by "God reveals absolute truth"? Is there some other type of relative truth?
You have subjective and objective truth.
Truth is truth, you either believe it when it is presented or you don't.
Nope. Truth can be subjective. We all in our flesh have subjective truth based on experiences, upbringing etc.
When God reveals a truth, it is objectively true. Otherwise God is not God.

So when God reveals Himself to you on a personal level, is that subjective or objective truth revealed?
 
All people are born not knowing God and no hope of knowing Him until He presents Himself. Only after He is revealed can He be rejected and if everyone rejected Him then no-one would be drawn to Christ.
Who in their right mind would reject objective truth?

That is like saying people choose to reject that 1+1 = 2. It would be oxymoronic.
 
Why do you choose wrong?
In my flesh, mostly because of sin.
You are always right?
When I walk in the Spirit, yes.

What about you?
Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.
Rom 8:27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
Rom 8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
 
I am not going to answer a question that was asked because someone distorted what I was saying.
He distorted it into something I did not say.
And, then wanted me to answer his question as if what I had said was his distortion.
Nothing has been distorted.

I asked simple questions and all are free to answer them for themselves.
You seem to be loathe to answer these questions for some reason.
 
Who in their right mind would reject objective truth?

That is like saying people choose to reject that 1+1 = 2. It would be oxymoronic.
Any lurkers or participants that might be interested, please listen to this by RC. Sproul.
It is well worth the 19 minutes and 36 seconds listen in order to reach an understanding of what the reformed view actually is:

https://www.ligonier.org/learn/series/thus-says-the-lord/revelation

I urge all to listen to the whole series "Thus Says the Lord" it is well worth it.
 
Are you implying that some people have a natural righteousness that makes them see past loving power over truth.
Can you see that you are making a distinction in man. That not all are depraved to the same level, but that some are more inclined to their depravity than others.

Unless no one chooses to believe that which they do not understand.

What is logically more consistent?
No, I am not saying some people have a natural righteousness. I am saying when God applies His grace, freeing the soul from the influence of the flesh (which I have explained a number of times now and you seem to keep conveniently forgetting), they are able choose according to their souls desire. We are effectively placed into the same position as Adam pre-fall, by God's grace. The soul (the essence of who you are as a person) is not created depraved, it is neutral in respect to good and evil. It learns to be depraved because it has a sin nature in the flesh and the imputation of Adam's sin ensures we are dead spiritually. If not for the grace of God, we would have no choice but become depraved.
Unless no one chooses to believe that which they do not understand.

What is logically more consistent?
I'm not sure how this relates to what I said.
I am asking if ALL MEN are convicted by God in the revelation He gives.
What is your belief system! Is it not that all men receive the same revelation and conviction?
I am pretty sure I have already explained to you not everyone gets them same degree of revelation. The Romans 1 type never gets past what we might term "first contact". That level is not even personal. It is the recognition of eternal power and deity, yet rather than pursue the revelation, they reject it for a natural explanation.
Nope. Truth can be subjective. We all in our flesh have subjective truth based on experiences, upbringing etc.
When God reveals a truth, it is objectively true. Otherwise God is not God.
God is truth. All truth is objective. What we believe as truth (subjective) may or may not be truth. This is why the act of our believing (an exercise of our volition) has no merit but rather the object of our believing (the Lord Jesus Christ) is where the power unto salvation lies.
So when God reveals Himself to you on a personal level, is that subjective or objective truth revealed?
We are to take our experience to the scriptures and the whole realm of doctrine. None of us are perfected in knowledge (yet) which is why we must humble ourselves and be ever willing to be corrected.
Who in their right mind would reject objective truth?
You can only say that because of the grace of God.
 
Unless no one chooses to believe that which they do not understand.

What is logically more consistent?

Did Abraham believe what he did not understand when told he was going to have a child at age 99 with a wife much too old as well?

No he did not understand how it could be.
But, he knew he could trust the one telling him what he could not understand.

That is faith.

Abraham believed God and it was counted as righteousness.

Those who are His? Sense what He is.

To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe,
nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are defiled." Titus 1:15​


......
 
No, I am not saying some people have a natural righteousness. I am saying when God applies His grace, freeing the soul from the influence of the flesh (which I have explained a number of times now and you seem to keep conveniently forgetting), they are able choose according to their souls desire. We are effectively placed into the same position as Adam pre-fall, by God's grace. The soul (the essence of who you are as a person) is not created depraved, it is neutral in respect to good and evil. It learns to be depraved because it has a sin nature in the flesh and the imputation of Adam's sin ensures we are dead spiritually. If not for the grace of God, we would have no choice but become depraved.
And as I said previously, you have no Biblical support for these theories you hold.
Election onto salvation is indeed a Biblical teaching and you conveniently choose to ignore it's existence.
I'm not sure how this relates to what I said.

I am pretty sure I have already explained to you not everyone gets them same degree of revelation. The Romans 1 type never gets past what we might term "first contact". That level is not even personal. It is the recognition of eternal power and deity, yet rather than pursue the revelation, they reject it for a natural explanation.
This contradicts your 1st paragraph in essence.
Why does God not give everyone the same revelation. Your statement is that all do not receive the same degree.
You then come up with stuff not found in the Bible, like 1st contact etc.

Where is a Biblical teaching that some people recognize a 1st level of revelation and then pursue a higher revelation?
God is truth. All truth is objective.
Correct. Do Muslims have this objective truth?
What we believe as truth (subjective) may or may not be truth.
Because it comes from self and not God.
This is why the act of our believing (an exercise of our volition) has no merit but rather the object of our believing (the Lord Jesus Christ) is where the power unto salvation lies.
Mormons and Jehovah witnesses will all tell you they believe in Christ as the object of salvation.
That is an exercise of their volition. It is meaningless.
We are to take our experience to the scriptures and the whole realm of doctrine.
What experience?
Is this a pre or post salvation experience?
If a post salvation experience, how did you manage by an exercise of your own volition to pick the right Jesus as not the wrong one as the Mormons do?
None of us are perfected in knowledge (yet) which is why we must humble ourselves and be ever willing to be corrected.
Correct. As long as self and freedom of will and the nature of man is in the way we cannot humble ourselves, because these thing are well, in the way of humbling ourselves.
You can only say that because of the grace of God.
Well, if you are saying you can reject objective truth by the grace of God, then I do not understand.

Don't you not think it a lot more logically consistent that God by His grace chooses who to reveal Himself to whom He wills:
Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus declared, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children;
Mat 11:26 yes, Father, for such was your gracious will.
Mat 11:27 All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

What is Jesus saying here is the gracious will of the Father?
 
Did Abraham believe what he did not understand when told he was going to have a child at age 99 with a wife much too old as well?
No he did not understand how it could be.
But, he knew he could trust the one telling him what he could not understand.
That is faith.
Correct. God revealed it to Him and he had faith.
If God had not revealed it to Abraham, he most assuredly would not have had faith.
Abraham believed God and it was counted as righteousness.
Correct. He believed what God revealed to him directly.
Those who are His? Sense what He is.

To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe,
nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are defiled." Titus 1:15​


......
Was your mind and conscious defiled prior to your rebirth experience? Or were they somehow undefiled and you were pure because if this incorruption?
 
Election onto salvation is indeed a Biblical teaching and you conveniently choose to ignore it's existence.
Election is a doctrine for the believer not the unbeliever. To say you are chosen to be saved must, by necessity, be applied to the unbeliever.

As for the rest, you keep asking questions I have explained numerous times. I'm not going to keep repeating myself.

Have a nice day. :)
 
Election is a doctrine for the believer not the unbeliever. To say you are chosen to be saved must, by necessity, be applied to the unbeliever.
This does not negate the doctrine of election.
Paul had in mind that many would oppose the doctrine of election, and he was right.
As for the rest, you keep asking questions I have explained numerous times. I'm not going to keep repeating myself.

Have a nice day. :)
I must say that your explanations were lacking any Biblical or logical support.
I pointed that out hoping that you would bring scripture into account to verify the points you were making.
The reasons for my many questions is for Lurkers that may read to think further that just self and the will of man, and to start looking rather at God and His will and His plans.

Thanks for the discussion anyway.
Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus declared, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children;
Mat 11:26 yes, Father, for such was your gracious will.
Mat 11:27 All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
Mat 11:28 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
 
Was your mind and conscious defiled prior to your rebirth experience? Or were they somehow undefiled and you were pure because if this incorruption?

Sir?

Do you have truth?

If you do? Stop interjecting doubt. Show us what its like to be a friend of God.



Someone else could say. "Muhammad thought he was a friend of Allah. Was he not a friend of God in his own eyes?"

Its almost like hearing... "Did God really say if you eat......... Genesis 3:1

Build up.... edify.
 
This does not negate the doctrine of election.
Paul had in mind that many would oppose the doctrine of election, and he was right.
I haven't negated it nor do I oppose the doctrine of election. I understand it it to be for believers. A choice to save something can only be applied to that which is unsaved ie. an unbeliever. The doctrine of election is a choice God has made in respect to believers. The Church has been chosen to be "in Christ". Not all believers have been chosen for that position. That is a choice God has made with respect to His own counsel alone and there are many times I wonder what that counsel could possibly be. It certainly is not based on the amount of faith one has for Daniel had more faith in his little finger than most Christians have today.

I must say that your explanations were lacking any Biblical or logical support.
I pointed that out hoping that you would bring scripture into account to verify the points you were making.
The reasons for my many questions is for Lurkers that may read to think further that just self and the will of man, and to start looking rather at God and His will and His plans.
Huh? Are you admitting then you had no real intention of an actual discussion but rather simply were out to prove me wrong? That would hardly be a noble attitude. :confused:

Anyone can quote scripture. Maybe you would like to explain how and why an unbeliever can/would accomplish v.28 and come to Jesus when they are deaf, blind and utterly corrupt without any love for righteousness as you contend. Do you think Jesus was being rhetorical, knowing full well they couldn't do what He said?
 
Election is a doctrine for the believer not the unbeliever. To say you are chosen to be saved must, by necessity, be applied to the unbeliever.

As for the rest, you keep asking questions I have explained numerous times. I'm not going to keep repeating myself.

Have a nice day. :)

Our election for us took place when God chose which believers are to be the Bride of Christ.

God chose is in Him before the foundations of the world.

Did God choose Moses to be the Bride of Christ? No.
Did God choose Jeremiah to be the Bride of Christ? No.

Some people make a mistake at first.
God did not choose us to believe.
But, He chose us, because He knew we would believe.
Chose us to be included in the body of Christ!

Where was Adam's bride hidden before she was revealed?
She was hidden in Adam's body.

And, where are we, the church, now being awaiting to be revealed? Hid in Christ!
" And raised us up with him, and made us to sit
with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus:" Ephesians 2:6​

We have been chosen and predestined by God for the wedding supper of the Lamb!

grace and peace ............
 
Sir?

Do you have truth?
Yes, do you?
If you do? Stop interjecting doubt. Show us what its like to be a friend of God.
What doubt? If you have a doubt in your doctrine perhaps it is conviction.
Someone else could say. "Muhammad thought he was a friend of Allah. Was he not a friend of God in his own eyes?"
Of course. And he was wrong. Deceived.
Our fight is not against flesh and blood.
Its almost like hearing... "Did God really say if you eat......... Genesis 3:1

Build up.... edify.
You misrepresent me Sir!

I will give God alone the glory for my salvation. Self and freedom of the will had no part to play.
I was obedient in His leading, not choosing based on my will.

If that does not build-up but your theology of self will glorification does, then you have the wrong idea as to who you want to build up!
 
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