Spiritually Brain Dead

[GeneZ]

That's not what he said at all. He likened God to NOT being like a spoiled child. Try reading again.

I am getting the impression more and more that you simply let certain words jump out at you and run with any and every knee jerk reaction you can make.

It can become very frustrating and saddening when you are trying to have a discussion with someone and they can't even comprehend your simple statements but twist them around to mean what was never said.

Please, try to take a little more time in reading and thinking about what people are saying to you.

Thank you! God sent me a friend!

 

[ReverendRV]

Then yes I have entered.

Would you say you entered according to John 5:24?

 

[sawdust]

Would you say you entered according to John 5:24?

Yes, I am spiritually alive to never die again and have been given eternal life.

 

[ReverendRV]

Yes, I am spiritually alive to never die again and have been given eternal life.

John 5:24 is about entering the Kingdom of God at Faith, right?

 

[sawdust]

John 5:24 is about entering the Kingdom of God at Faith, right?

Yes, I heard, I believed, God picked me up, made me spiritually alive, gave me eternal life and made me a part of His Kingdom.

Are you trying to make a point here? If you are going to contend the inability of man to hear and believe I will agree with you wholeheartedly if it is on the basis there is no ministry of the Spirit by means of grace. However, God is faithful and doesn't wait for us to do the impossible but enables us to hear and frees our soul from the influence of the flesh so that we can make our own choices from our own souls.

Why do some choose life and others choose death? No idea other than to say it is what each wants. But why some want darkness is something you and I will never relate to and therefore simply is beyond our understanding just as the opposite is also true.

 

[ReverendRV]

Yes, I heard, I believed, God picked me up, made me spiritually alive, gave me eternal life and made me a part of His Kingdom.

Are you trying to make a point here? If you are going to contend the inability of man to hear and believe I will agree with you wholeheartedly if it is on the basis there is no ministry of the Spirit by means of grace. However, God is faithful and doesn't wait for us to do the impossible but enables us to hear and frees our soul from the influence of the flesh so that we can make our own choices from our own souls.

Why do some choose life and others choose death? No idea other than to say it is what each wants. But why some want darkness is something you and I will never relate to and therefore simply is beyond our understanding just as the opposite is also true.

Good...

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:5 KJV

Lest you be Born Again of the Spirit, you can't enter the Kingdom of God. This means you need to be Born of the Spirit before you enter the Kingdom of God through Faith...

 

[Manfred]

No, I'm born again because God has determined to save believers.

Can you prove that God determined to save those who choose to believe in the right Jesus?
Mormons and JW's also believe in Jesus.

Not difficult to understand if you think about it.

In your theology you advocate that you use your human will to make a decision to believe. If I am wrong, then correct me.

If I am right, then you advocate being born again by the will of man and not God.

Is this not what you are advocating. If not then explain what you actually advocate.

 

[Manfred]

That's not what he said at all. He likened God to NOT being like a spoiled child. Try reading again.

I did read that.
What kind of a mind comes up with the idea of God being a spoiled child in any way or form.
The accusation was made that reformed theology reduces God to that sort of thing.

One should not shy away from what is aid.

I am getting the impression more and more that you simply let certain words jump out at you and run with any and every knee jerk reaction you can make.

I am getting the impression more and more that the sovereignty of God is meaningless to you and others here.

It can become very frustrating and saddening when you are trying to have a discussion with someone and they can't even comprehend your simple statements but twist them around to mean what was never said.

So it was never said nor implied that I/we reduce God to spoiled child that does not get His way?
Words matter

Please, try to take a little more time in reading and thinking about what people are saying to you.

Ditto friend.
Try reading and responding to scriptures posted and points made instead of preening around with your fake smiley emojis.

 

[GeneZ]

You think it is not God's will that there would be stiff-necked and uncircumsised in heart people around?
Are they thwarting the will of God somehow?

They are proving God created life that is capable to think for itself.

So that when someone believes in Him? Its they who wanted to believe.
When someone rejects Him? It is they who wanted to reject.

For if God simply does as He desires without a standard other than what He wants?
Then all men would be saved, with God having billions of hand puppets.

 

[sawdust]

Can you prove that God determined to save those who choose to believe in the right Jesus?
Mormons and JW's also believe in Jesus.

If they are in THE Faith, their works will demonstrate it.

 

[GeneZ]

Can you prove that God determined to save those who choose to believe in the right Jesus?
Mormons and JW's also believe in Jesus.

In your theology you advocate that you use your human will to make a decision to believe. If I am wrong, then correct me.

If I am right, then you advocate being born again by the will of man and not God.

Is this not what you are advocating. If not then explain what you actually advocate.

Are you questioning on the basis of what Calvinism teaches and believes?

 

[sawdust]

In your theology you advocate that you use your human will to make a decision to believe. If I am wrong, then correct me.

If I am right, then you advocate being born again by the will of man and not God.

Is this not what you are advocating. If not then explain what you actually advocate.

I advocate you make your own choice as to whether you accept or reject the truth the Spirit reveals.

No, I don't advocate our wills have the ability to do anything other than choose. I have said this repeatedly so no, our wills cannot make us born again. Our wills do not have the power for that.

I'll repeat what I said to ReverendRV in post#145.

"If you are going to contend the inability of man to hear and believe I will agree with you wholeheartedly if it is on the basis there is no ministry of the Spirit by means of grace. However, God is faithful and doesn't wait for us to do the impossible but enables us to hear and frees our soul from the influence of the flesh so that we can make our own choices from our own souls."

 

[sawdust]

Are you questioning on the basis of what Calvinism teaches and believes?

You might need to clarify to what particular aspect of Calvinist teaching you are referring. I'm guessing Limited Atonement???

 

[GeneZ]

You might need to clarify to what particular aspect of Calvinist teaching you are referring. I'm guessing Limited Atonement???

not exactly....

Here is what he was after....

​

In your theology you advocate that you use your human will to make a decision to believe. ​

If I am wrong, then correct me.​

​

If I am right, then you advocate being born again by the will of man and not God.​

Calvinists have been failing to understand the power of God's Grace other than seeing it to mean that God must somehow force us into belief. That God wills us into believing through what they call "irresistible" grace. God must do it that way because man is totally depraved.

Problem with total depravity? If its total? There will be nothing to save.

Arminianism does not teach that.
Arminianism more or less teaches that man has some innate area of goodness still intact, that the Gospel appeals to in those who believe.


Yet in reality.. God does force by His power of Grace for something to happen.

God's power of Grace forces the person's flesh/sin nature (which prevents the soul from believing) to be shut down and suppressed while the soul of that person is being made free of the flesh to be presented needed truth for that soul to choose to believe.

In that kind of state of grace? It then becomes as personal encounter between God and that person's soul.
An encounter while the flesh is shut down by grace, so that soul will be able to make its choice unhindered by sin.

The response can be positive. Or, that soul can choose to be negative.

Grace does not guarantee one will believe. It guarantees only provides what is needed to have the freedom for the soul to choose to accept or reject for itself. That is what takes place during the drawing of God of men unto salvation. The drawing can be an ongoing process that can begin in childhood and lead to salvation later in life...

Selah!

grace and peace .......

 

[sawdust]

not exactly....

Here is what he was after....




Calvinists have been failing to understand the power of God's Grace other than seeing it to mean that God must somehow force us into belief. That God wills us into believing through what they call "irresistible" grace. God must do it that way because man is totally depraved.

Problem with total depravity? If its total? There will be nothing to save.

Arminianism does not teach that.
Arminianism more or less teaches that man has some innate area of goodness still intact, that the Gospel appeals to in those who believe.


Yet in reality.. God does force by His power of Grace for something to happen.

God's power of Grace forces the person's flesh/sin nature (which prevents the soul from believing) to be shut down and suppressed while the soul of that person is being made free of the flesh to be presented needed truth for that soul to choose to believe.

In that kind of state of grace? It then becomes as personal encounter between God and that person's soul.
An encounter while the flesh is shut down by grace, so that soul will be able to make its choice unhindered by sin.

The response can be positive. Or, that soul can choose to be negative.

Grace does not guarantee one will believe. It guarantees only provides what is needed to have the freedom for the soul to choose to accept or reject for itself. That is what takes place during the drawing of God of men unto salvation. The drawing can be an ongoing process that can begin in childhood and lead to salvation later in life...

Selah!

grace and peace .......

So irresistible grace then, gotcha.

 

[Manfred]

They are proving God created life that is capable to think for itself.

Of course He created people who can anything in the natural.
Spiritually DEAD people are well,... dead. Dead people can do NOTHING. They cannot even think one thought.

So that when someone believes in Him? Its they who wanted to believe.

Why did they? What sets them apart from those who don't?
Are they just better at choosing?
More righteous?

When someone rejects Him? It is they who wanted to reject.

At what point do people reject God?
All people reject God. It is when He reveals Himself in Spirit and in Truth that people can understand the spiritual truth in the gospel message.
Without that revelation the message is FOLLY to them.

For if God simply does as He desires without a standard other than what He wants?

According to His good pleasure/purposes/will.

That is Biblical truth right there. Refute it with scripture if you can!

Then all men would be saved, with God having billions of hand puppets.

Only according to your faulty logic!
Do you serve Him by doing your will or His will!
If He is glorified through you when you walk/act/do according to His will, does that make you a hand puppet!

 

[Manfred]

If they are in THE Faith, their works will demonstrate it.

No doubt.

Why did they choose wrong though? They get the same revelation you do right?
Why did you choose right, having the same revelation they have!

 

[Manfred]

Are you questioning on the basis of what Calvinism teaches and believes?

No, on what scripture teaches.

You seem loathe to answer! Does the answer "bother" you for some reason?
Are you born again because of the will of man (freedom of the will) or because of God?

 

[Manfred]

I advocate you make your own choice as to whether you accept or reject the truth the Spirit reveals.

Ok, this is where our conversation actually started and then went off on a tangent.

My question to you originally was about this choice you say you have when God reveals absolute truth to a human being.
In this revelation, the person is convicted of something unseen, and assurance of a hope of a Savior that will take away his/her guilt.

Do you agree with the above or does a revelation mean something different to you?

 

[sawdust]

No doubt.

Why did they choose wrong though? They get the same revelation you do right?
Why did you choose right, having the same revelation they have!

How am I supposed to know why people desire what they do other than to say some love power more than truth, darkness more than light. Why did one third of the angels, who lived face to face with God, choose to rebel and never repent?

That's part of the mystery of evil. Just as evil will never relate to goodness, goodness cannot relate to evil. In other words, you and I will never know why some people choose not to believe.