Sanctification

[ReverendRV]

I was answering the OP. I thought that would be obvious but apparently not.

If someone is saying that monergism is true then no, it isn't obvious at all because they aren't making any personal effort to refrain from sinning. That too should be obvious?

My first response in support of Monergism, is that the Definition of Grace is Unmerited Favor. When a Christian agrees they are Saved by Grace, they should believe that Unmerited Favor is Monergistic. How can Unmerited Favor be Synergistic?? I say that anything which can be said is 'of' Grace, is Monergistic; because Grace is Unmerited Favor, not Merited Favor...

For instance; Election is "of" Grace; therefore it is a Doctrine of Grace. Since Election is a Doctrine of Grace, Election is Unmerited Favor...

Right?

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

I feel sometimes like having brevity because I trust others will understand what I am saying without having to walk through everything in a detailed way. I mean, sometimes it seems to me that people ought to have learnt to read well by the time they get to 30 years of age.

I was being slightly tongue in cheek though; I don't really get impatient with others, I just like to be brief.

Wellll...people here like to draw things out. So it might come off as rude. I certainly NEVER come across that way. So shame on you.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

Where there are many words, there is no lack of sin. Proverbs 10:19

Oh indeed. The Bible is full of sin.

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

My first response in support of Monergism, is that the Definition of Grace is Unmerited Favor. When a Christian agrees they are Saved by Grace, they should believe that Unmerited Favor is Monergistic. How can Unmerited Favor be Synergistic?? I say that anything which can be said is 'of' Grace, is Monergistic; because Grace is Unmerited Favor, not Merited Favor...

For instance; Election is "of" Grace; therefore it is a Doctrine of Grace. Since Election is a Doctrine of Grace, Election is Unmerited Favor...

Right?

I believe election, justification, regeneration, being born again are monergistic. However, it seems sometimes justification is confused with sanctification, which is what the Roman Catholics have. I honestly would like to believe in total monergism with regard to sanctification but at this stage in my life it doesn't seem to be actually occurring that way. I'm just speaking with regard to my addictions.

 

[ReverendRV]

I believe election, justification, regeneration, being born again are monergistic. However, it seems sometimes justification is confused with sanctification, which is what the Roman Catholics have. I honestly would like to believe in total monergism with regard to sanctification but at this stage in my life it doesn't seem to be actually occurring that way. I'm just speaking with regard to my addictions.

I agree with you; and so did RC Sproul. He said Sanctification has a Synergistic aspect to it...

What we must do, is believe both sides are true at the time. Sanctification is ALL of Grace, even the Perseverance of the Saints; thus it is Monergistic. Sanctification is Synergistic; even the Perseverance of the Saints...

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

I agree with you; and so did RC Sproul. He said Sanctification has a Synergistic aspect to it...

What we must do, is believe both sides are true at the time. Sanctification is ALL of Grace, even the Perseverance of the Saints; thus it is Monergistic. Sanctification is Synergistic; even the Perseverance of the Saints...

Apparently so.

Same with free will and grace in a sense.

 

[ReverendRV]

Apparently so.

Same with free will and grace in a sense.

Thus the duality is why the Age-Old argument persists. When the two sides CAN be Compatible, let them be Compatible...

Christ being God and Man are Compatible; though Jews and Muslims tell us this is incompatible...

 

[makesends]

I'll take it to be a kind of a paradoxical situation, as I can't really figure it out either way. As I said in my original post, I think it must be a bit of monergism and a bit of synergism together. That's not regeneration and justification, which is all of God in my opinion.

Certainly it seemed to me at the time before I was saved that I was believing or having genuine faith while reading the Bible etc., and then all of a sudden - salvation. Post salvation, I don't experience that type of faith in the same way. I have even had moments of doubt but they are usually about the afterlife destination.

Two thoughts come immediately to mind, reading your answer. 1. God deals with each individual in a different way from all the others. Each believer's experience is different from the rest. 2. Personal perception of personal experience in this, is no measure of what actually happened. The Word of God, however, is.

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

Thus the duality is why the Age-Old argument persists. When the two sides CAN be Compatible, let them be Compatible...

Christ being God and Man are Compatible; though Jews and Muslims tell us this is incompatible...

I can only speak for myself here but when I was saved I experienced the Trinity in a way. There was the Holy Spirit acting to illuminate the words of scripture, followed by a vision of the cross, and then the Presence of the Father. So, though I can only really point to my personal experience there, I do know there is a Trinity. Hence, the nature of Christ being human and Divine at the same time doesn't present any problems for me.

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

Two thoughts come immediately to mind, reading your answer. 1. God deals with each individual in a different way from all the others. Each believer's experience is different from the rest. 2. Personal perception of personal experience in this, is no measure of what actually happened. The Word of God, however, is.

I hope I didn't mention personal experience, I just stated that I had genuine faith unto Salvation.

I don't believe God deals with people in different ways at salvation, except for some of the content people might experience at that time. Most of the markers of being saved that are shared by all are obvious, like love for the Word, fellowship with other believers, wanting to tell others etc.

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

Two thoughts come immediately to mind, reading your answer. 1. God deals with each individual in a different way from all the others. Each believer's experience is different from the rest. 2. Personal perception of personal experience in this, is no measure of what actually happened. The Word of God, however, is.

Do you like RC Sproul? I wonder what he would say in response to the idea that experience of God is nullified because the Word of God is more reliable.

 

[ReverendRV]

Do you like RC Sproul? I wonder what he would say in response to the idea that experience of God is nullified because the Word of God is more reliable.

He would say that as long as experience matches the Revelation of Scripture in an Ecclesiastical sense; experience is Good...

And please don't ask for a quote

If you experience a talking burning bush, that experience may be Biblical; but it's not Biblical in an Ecclesiastical sense. The Church wouldn't, and shouldn't, believe your experience...

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

He would say that as long as experience matches the Revelation of Scripture in an Ecclesiastical sense; experience is Good...

And please don't ask for a quote

If you experience a talking burning bush, that experience may be Biblical; but it's not Biblical in an Ecclesiastical sense. The Church wouldn't, and shouldn't, believe your experience...

If the experience lines up with already revealed Scripture, it isn't a problem. I'm talking about a subjective experience. If someone saw a burning bush or something objective like that, I would be very skeptical.

 

[ReverendRV]

If the experience lines up with already revealed Scripture, it isn't a problem. I'm talking about a subjective experience. If someone saw a burning bush or something objective like that, I would be very skeptical.

There is room for personal opinion. The Bible teaches one person Keeps one Day, another person Keeps a different Day. One person eats food offered to an Idol, another person doesn't. The Bible says to be convinced in your own Mind. There is no need for Scripture to be the final Arbiter of Spiritual Truth here; the Mind and the Conscience is. This is why most Evangelical Christians accept that Arminianism and Calvinism BOTH are in the Pale of Orthodoxy; each person is to be convinced in their own Mind which one they favor...

For instance; my Reformed Baptist Church taught about keeping the Sabbath Holy. They did this on Sunday instead of Saturday. They ALMOST kept it in a Legalistic sense, but didn't Cross that line. They were convinced in their Mind, that Sunday should be a Day of Rest much like the Old Covenant Sabbath. In this sense, they kept the Sabbath. No Football, etc. Prohibitions; right?

Not that I'm trying to open THAT can of worms. I'm just using it as an example of our Freedom in Christ to be flexible. Someone here might speak up that it's Biblical to go out of your way to keep the Christian Sabbath Holy; and they would be right. Someone else may be less Legalistic; and they would be right. Let each be convinced in their own Mind...

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

Yes, except I would say it depends on the content of the experience. If something is blatantly extra Biblical in content, I would be suspicious. So long as the basic markers of salvation are in place, that's more important.

To err on the side of caution I would take a leaf from Peter's Epistle, that the scripture is a more sure word in comparison to his experience of the transfiguration which he personally witnessed.

Also, memory is notoriously unreliable, especially when you get older.

Regarding your picture, I like my James White too!

 

[ReverendRV]

Yes, except I would say it depends on the content of the experience. If something is blatantly extra Biblical in content, I would be suspicious. So long as the basic markers of salvation are in place, that's more important.

To err on the side of caution I would take a leaf from Peter's Epistle, that the scripture is a more sure word in comparison to his experience of the transfiguration which he personally witnessed.

Also, memory is notoriously unreliable, especially when you get older.

Regarding your picture, I like my James White too!

My picture is mocking Leighton Flowers...

I need to change it...

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

My picture is mocking Leighton Flowers...

I need to change it...

I got that. I thought I would give a big up to his arch nemesis, King James White.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

Is it a sin to chuckle when James wrecks an apologetics opponent?

Asking for a friend.

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

Is it a sin to chuckle when James wrecks an apologetics opponent?

Asking for a friend.

I think it depends upon how impatient you are.

 

[ChristB4us]

We are told we are to repent and believe in the gospel, and those who do are saved. Yet, it is God is gifts these to them so that they will be saved. Same with our sanctification. We are told to crucify the flesh(which is done in Christ), mortify the sin in our bodies, and as believers we do. Yet it is God who works within us to do these things.

I believe repenting is by believing in Jesus Christ alone. This same Peter preached the same gospel to the Gentiles as he did to the Jews.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Now before water baptism, before the Gentiles even confessed Him with their mouths, they heard the word thus believed and got saved in receiving the remission of sins by believing in Him and the promise of the Holy Ghost as a result.

Now look at the same gospel Peter had preached to the Jews earlier for there can only be one gospel.

As you read, note that Peter told those Jews that this Jesus whom they had crucified in "unbelief" was the One that God has made Lord & Christ for why they were pricked in their hearts for what they had done in unbelief. And so Peter calls for repent was to repent from unbelief by believing in Him was how they had received the remission of sins and the Holy Ghost as this promise was for even those that are far off to whomsoever the Lord calls.

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Paul preached the same gospel where there is no repentance from sins but by believing in Him.

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

And then after salvation, with Jesus Christ in us, we are able to run that race by looking to Him as the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son.

As for the poll, I do not know the meaning of those words but I do know we are to run that race as His disciple by faith in Jesus Christ in being our personal Good Shepherd & Friend to help us to follow Him daily.