Sanctification

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

There is something to talk about...

RC Sproul said that Sanctification is Synergistic. Since Mortification is kind of Sanctification (and it is); perhaps Mortification is the Sanctification Sproul is referring to?

It seems there is now an uneasy agreement between you and David. I think y'all agree...

Perhaps. Certainly Sproul was aware of John Calvin's thoughts on Mortification. We would call what he ( Calvin ) describes mortification as "conviction" though. A.W. Pink describes it as more along the lines of practical Godliness which is what I'm inclined toward as well. There seems to be some thought and mention of it by John Owen and John MacArthur as well.

 

[Arial]

I'm glad we have a good crowd of reformed here. And if not reformed, also very knowledgeable.

My question is, is Sanctification Monergoistic or Synergistic?
Can you support your view with scripture?

I'm not presenting this as a debate. Just looking to learn and get sharpened.
Proverbs 27:17 As iron sharpens iron,
So one person sharpens another.


Personally, I believe Sanctification is Monergistic. For now, I'll just give John 17:15, 17 I am not asking You to take them out of the world, but to keep them away from the evil one. Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth.

I believe sanctification is monergistic. It is entirely of God and His word. That is where we learn of this image of Christ we are to bear. It is the work of the Holy Spirit in His word entering first our mind and from there, our hearts.

That being said, we also have responsibility in this sanctification. It is us who must read His word and learn from it. Recognize when and where we fall short in our lives, thoughts and actions and motives, and run to Him for both His mercy and the graces we need to submit to His will.

I have often, regarding forgiveness for instance, had to recognize in my communion with God, that everything in me did not want to forgive, and hating that in me, cried out, "I know I must forgive and I don't want to. But I want more than anything to want to want to." The first time I did that His response was instant and breathtaking. Nevertheless I have to revisit this from time to time concerning different areas of forgiveness. And I think we learn and grow that way. It both exposes our own hearts to us, our deepest hidden sins, and our constant need and desire to run to the fountain of grace and mercy for help, that we might glorify Him in all our ways.

It is my hope and prayer that these areas I find in me that are an abomination to God, and to me because they are to Him, when I sit before Him and look at them, will be put to death in me as others have been,---in the land of the living. I know at the consummation of our salvation, they will be. And those that continue to plague me like a thorn in my side while I am here? Well His grace is sufficient for me and the righteousness of Christ clothes me. I pray that my heart will never become blind or complacent in recognizing these sins as He exposes them to me, or to justify them to myself, or ignore His correction. And I pray the same for all His children, everywhere.

 

[David1701]

Eh...I think that's two different things but I'll let it pass. And the *desire* to live a loving and Godly life is definitely a God given gift but the doing of it certainly involves my "hands" as well. In the end it may simply be perception.

Now I hope that everyone here understands that I'm not talking salvific work here? Also that the distinction is made by certain luminaries smarter than I. So there must be something there to talk about?

Our hands are involved in what God does in us and through, just as gloves are involved when we work in and through them.

I didn't think that you were talking about salvation, except in its outworking in our lives.

 

[Eleanor]

Perhaps. Certainly Sproul was aware of John Calvin's thoughts on Mortification. We would call what he ( Calvin ) describes mortification as "conviction" though. A.W. Pink describes it as more along the lines of practical Godliness which is what I'm inclined toward as well. There seems to be some thought and mention of it by John Owen and John MacArthur as well.

The root word of mortification is death, it means dying to sin as Christ died for sin (Ro 6:1-6).

 

[Wordsmith]

My view of Sanctification is this:

2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief ofthetruth:

1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

I believe when one is born again the spirit man is sanctified and is as sanctified as it will ever be.
Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Ephesians 5:26
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

John 17:17
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

I believe the soul (mind, intellect) is sanctified by the Word of God a process.

Romans 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

I believe the body of man is sanctified by our devotion and choice to serve God also a process.
1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Spirit soul and body, 3 fold sanctification, spirit at salvation and soul and body through the process of growing in Him.

 

[Carbon]

My view of Sanctification is this:

2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief ofthetruth:

1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

I believe when one is born again the spirit man is sanctified and is as sanctified as it will ever be.
Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Ephesians 5:26
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

John 17:17
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

I believe the soul (mind, intellect) is sanctified by the Word of God a process.

Romans 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

I believe the body of man is sanctified by our devotion and choice to serve God also a process.
1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Spirit soul and body, 3 fold sanctification, spirit at salvation and soul and body through the process of growing in Him.

So do you believe it is monergistic or synergistic?

 

[Wordsmith]

So do you believe it is monergistic or synergistic?

You label it I post what I believe.

I came out of a church that taught entire sanctification as a second work of grace, a doctrine I was never able to justify from scripture.

 

[Arial]

I believe when one is born again the spirit man is sanctified and is as sanctified as it will ever be.
Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Ephesians 5:26
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

In one sense but that is usually termed regeneration which of course does set us apart as holy unto the Lord by virtue of being in Christ.

As typically used sanctification refers to the process of being gradually transformed more and more into the image of Christ. Which is indeed in/from His word. But it is a learning process.

Spirit soul and body, 3 fold sanctification, spirit at salvation and soul and body through the process of growing in Him.

A common dellieniation within the church which I gave blind acceptance to for a long time. Until someone asked me where does the Bible say man is mind, soul, and body? Which got me thinking and I have yet----and it has been years----found where the Bible is actually making that distinction or says/implies that is what comprise us and to our being. For one thing, scripture often uses spirit and soul interchangeably. But I suppose it does no harm.

 

[Eleanor]

In one sense but that is usually termed regeneration which of course does set us apart as holy unto the Lord by virtue of being in Christ.

As typically used sanctification refers to the process of being gradually transformed more and more into the image of Christ. Which is indeed in/from His word. But it is a learning process.

A common dellieniation within the church which I gave blind acceptance to for a long time. Until someone asked me where does the Bible say man is mind, soul, and body? Which got me thinking and I have yet----and it has been years----found where the Bible is actually making that distinction or says/implies that is what comprise us and to our being. For one thing, scripture often uses spirit and soul interchangeably. But I suppose it does no harm.

Heb 4;12?

 

[Arial]

Heb 4;12?

That verse is often used to support humans as a trichotomy but the scripture doesn't really support that. First of all that is not what it is talking about.

It stresses the power of God's word to enter the deepest places of our being. The authors point is not to to divide human beings into constituent parts. If that is what he was doing one would expect him to say bone and marrow, not joints and marrow.

 

[Eleanor]

That verse is often used to support humans as a trichotomy but the scripture doesn't really support that. First of all that is not what it is talking about.

It stresses the power of God's word to enter the deepest places of our being. The authors point is not to to divide human beings into constituent parts. If that is what he was doing one would expect him to say bone and marrow, not joints and marrow.

Okay, but I'm not using it for anything other than to Biblically demonstrate that the soul and spirit are different entities.

That verse is often used to support humans as a trichotomy but the scripture doesn't really support that. First of all that is not what it is talking about.

It stresses the power of God's word to enter the deepest places of our being. The authors point is not to to divide human beings into constituent parts. If that is what he was doing one would expect him to say bone and marrow, not joints and marrow.

 

[civic]

RC Sproul says it’s synergistic along with many famous Calvinist Theologians below.

Is Sanctification Monergistic or Synergistic? A Reformed Survey

Recently, in a leadership training class at our church, a spirited discussion broke out on whether sanctification is monergistic or synergisitic. No, this is not what every class is like at University Reformed Church. But this one was. I wasn’t there, but I was told the discussion was energetic...

www.thegospelcoalition.org

 

[Carbon]

RC Sproul says it’s synergistic along with many famous Calvinist Theologians below.

Is Sanctification Monergistic or Synergistic? A Reformed Survey

Recently, in a leadership training class at our church, a spirited discussion broke out on whether sanctification is monergistic or synergisitic. No, this is not what every class is like at University Reformed Church. But this one was. I wasn’t there, but I was told the discussion was energetic...

www.thegospelcoalition.org

Yes, I agree many Calvinists (Well I don't know how many) agree. But as far as Sproul goes, I think you and Rev misunderstand him, I believe he believes it's monergistic.
But Maybe I misunderstood? It's possible

 

[civic]

Yes, I agree many Calvinists (Well I don't know how many) agree. But as far as Sproul goes, I think you and Rev misunderstand him, I believe he believes it's monergistic.
But Maybe I misunderstood? It's possible

Here is RC in his own words

We’re saved by grace alone and justified by faith alone, but having been saved, we don’t just wait around to die. Christianity is about spiritual growth as well, and spiritual growth involves effort—the hard work of sanctification. We manifestly don’t work for our regeneration or our justification. Both acts are monergistic, accomplished by God alone. Only the Holy Spirit can change our hearts. Only the righteousness of Christ, the righteousness of the Son of God secured by His perfect obedience to the Father, can secure our right standing before God. Sanctification, however, includes our efforts. We say it is synergistic because both God and we are doing something. Yet, we aren’t equal partners. God wills and works in us according to His good pleasure so that we progress in holiness (Phil. 2:12–13). But as God works in us, we work as well, pursuing Him in prayer, relying on the means of grace—the preached Word and the sacraments—seeking to be reconciled to those we have offended. There’s no shortcut for sanctification. It’s a process, and one that all too often seems overly plodding, with progress taking years to discern.

https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/no-shortcuts-growth

 

[ReverendRV]

Yes, I agree many Calvinists (Well I don't know how man) agree. But as far as Sproul goes, I think you and Rev misunderstand him, I believe he believes it's monergistic.
But Maybe I misunderstood? It's possible

It's Monergistic because it is a Doctrine of Grace; a Doctrine if Unmerited Favor...

But Sproul says it's also Synergistic; I say because we participate in growing in Wisdom and Stature...


Don't make me agree with CIVIC...

 

[Carbon]

Here is RC in his own words

We’re saved by grace alone and justified by faith alone, but having been saved, we don’t just wait around to die. Christianity is about spiritual growth as well, and spiritual growth involves effort—the hard work of sanctification. We manifestly don’t work for our regeneration or our justification. Both acts are monergistic, accomplished by God alone. Only the Holy Spirit can change our hearts. Only the righteousness of Christ, the righteousness of the Son of God secured by His perfect obedience to the Father, can secure our right standing before God. Sanctification, however, includes our efforts. We say it is synergistic because both God and we are doing something. Yet, we aren’t equal partners. God wills and works in us according to His good pleasure so that we progress in holiness (Phil. 2:12–13). But as God works in us, we work as well, pursuing Him in prayer, relying on the means of grace—the preached Word and the sacraments—seeking to be reconciled to those we have offended. There’s no shortcut for sanctification. It’s a process, and one that all too often seems overly plodding, with progress taking years to discern.

https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/no-shortcuts-growth

Yes, I read that, thanks.

You don't see the monergism in that? I do.

 

[Carbon]

Yes, I read that, thanks.

You don't see the monergism in that? I do.

@civic @ReverendRV I really do. Ill try to explain in a bit if you want?

 

[Eleanor]

@civic @ReverendRV I really do. Ill try to explain in a bit if you want?

Which I think is why we will cast our golden crowns before the glassy sea, for it is God's work in us that he is crowning.

 

[Carbon]

Which I think is why we will cast our golden crowns before the glassy sea, for it is God's work in us that he is crowning.

Amen sister.

 

[Carbon]

Lev 11:44 For I am the Lord your God. Consecrate yourselves therefore, and be holy, because I am holy. And you shall not make yourselves unclean with any of the swarming things that swarm on the earth. 45 For I am the Lord who brought you up from the land of Egypt, to be your God; so you shall be holy, because I am holy.’”

A holy God who, from the very necessity and purity of His being, can have no fellowship with sin. God must hate and abhor sin. A stronger plea for the sanctification of God's children cannot be found.
15 but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; 16 because it is written: “You shall be holy, for I am holy.” 1 Peter 1:15-16.

The cross is God's grand demonstration of His holiness. Here has He, as it were, unveiled his great perfections, and shown what a sin-hating, holiness-loving God He is.


The Lord Jesus became incarnate and died as much for sanctification as for the pardon and justification of his church, as much for her deliverance from the indwelling power of sin, and from the condemnation of sin.