Salvation and sanctification is now complete in Christ: Consecration then follows

[Ladodgers6]

It's not my argument, nor a strawman's. Some believers teach their faith alone causes their own works of the flesh to escape the judgment of the Lord. They teach that they are no more condemned by their own works, even when doing the same as others not naming His name.

You therefore agree there is still condemnation for believers doing unrighteousness, the same as for them not naming Christ? If we are found doing unrighteousness at His appearing, we too will be condemned with all the unrighteous on earth?

Isn't Christ's works more than sufficient to redeem the ungodly? Why keep focusing on the Law to redeem sinners? This ship has sailed when it was breached by One Man's Act of disobedience, thus bringing condemnation on all mankind. All sinners are under the curse of the law, why do you think that is? Paul says in Galatians 3, unless you keep all things written in the book of the Law; meaning without a single shred of sin, only the curse abides there.

The Law exposes this sinful condition and should bring terror for it. Because no sinner will be justified through the Law, because of sin. There's no escape from this condition before the Law or trying to obtain righteousness and justification through works. Therefore, the only place a sinner can now find redemption and salvation is in Christ Alone through Faith Alone apart from works of the Law. You have to know the distinction between Law & Gospel in relation to Justification by Faith Alone. This is how a sinner is justified before God. Once they believe and trust in him who justifies the ungodly, then they will obey and follow God, because the alienation because of sin, has been removed by the blood and works of Christ to reconcile us to God, who is no longer a judge by a loving Father.

How can anyone want to live to God, when first of they are hostile and enemies of God? The Law does not brings peace, but threats, understand? The Gospel brings good news, peace of conscience through a Free Gift; namely Christ and his finished works. We do not add nor substract from the works of Christ to do so, will turn Gospel into Law or Law into Gospel which is contrary to the Gospel that Paul preached, which is no gospel at all.

I believe you are mingling and conflating Law & Gospel into one which distorts it with Legalism. Focusing on human merits instead of Christ's. Thinking that man could to do what Christ could not. Or that salvation lies in the Law. I also thought that I could achieve salvation through my own merits, like keeping score, trying to out do my bad deeds like a scoreboard, but that is a fools errand. Once the relationship is restored between the sinner & God. We want to live to God. Because of what He did in Christ for the ungodly who believe apart from works. It's about trusting in God and his word; his Promise what he Promised he said he will do! Not what we will do, because we will never do or cannot do because of our sin.​

 

[Ghada]

Romans 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works

Please by all means explain this for me if you wouldn't mind, thanks.

First, we can only preach the promise of the gospel, to them obeying the command of the gospel:

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Acts 3:19
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Being forgiven and imputed righteousness by God, is only by being repented from our sins and trespasses for Jesus' sake.

Heb 6:1
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
The gospel promise is to them that do repent for Jesus' sake. That promise is God's righteousness imputed with His faith, to no more do past unrighteousness repented of, and only do His righteousness with Jesus Christ.

1Jo 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Psa 106:3
Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

The gospel warning is that without repentance from our dead works, then there is no faith nor righteousness of God imputed to any old man with heart of lust.

The gospel command is to repent, and the gospel promise is righteous faith with power given to abstain from evil and do good.

And so, now we see that imparted righteousness is by repentance from dead works And repentace is not work we do, but is only the ceasing from our own works we did without Christ.

Heb 4:10
For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Imputed righteousness is therefore apart from works done without Christ. There is no faith nor righteousness apart from any works at all.

James
{2:19} Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. {2:20} But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Imputed righteousness of God is always apart from our own works without Christ, whether of righteousness or of law. Outward works without inward faith, are never justified by Christ. And unrpented outward dead works, are never by the faith of Jesus.

Rom 9:31
But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

And also, we see that those who seek the righteousness of God without repentance from doing unrighteousness, do not obtain the righteousness of God. Wherefore? Because they seek it not by the faith of Christ, but as it were by their own faith alone.

Neither our own works without Christ, nor our own faith without repentance, justifies any man with God.

Neither the faith, righteousness, nor justification of God, is apart from doing His righteousness and good works of Christ.

James
{2:24} Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

1 John
{3:7} Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

3 John
{1:11} Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

The truth of the gospel with imputed righteousness, is promised only to them that repent of all unrighteousness for Jesus' sake.

Those who repent not to continue doing unrighteousness, seek to impute a righteousness to them that do not the word of truth. It's their own righteousness imputed by their own faith alone, apart from works of God's righteousness.

 

[Ghada]

What can a sinner add that Christ has already done?

The only thing sinners can add, is more sinning in the world.

What Jesus Christ has done Himself is to die by of our transgressions against Him, and to rise again to justify them that do repent of their transgressions for His sake.

What repented righteous saints can add, and are commanded to do so, is His virtue, godliness, and charitable living to our faith in Him.

2Pe 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

 

[Ghada]

Prove it.

Deny it.

Acknowledge that any believer naming Christ sinning with the world, si not condemned with the world.

Or, you prove it yourself by agreeing believers naming Christ, who sin with the world, are no more condemned with the world.

 

[Ladodgers6]

First, we can only preach the promise of the gospel, to them obeying the command of the gospel:

As I mentioned before, I used to think and believe as you do. It was called living the Gospel, only one person in history did that; that was Christ Alone! Them obeying the Gospel? This is as I said turning the Promise into Law which is no longer by Grace but by works.

Galatians 3:18 For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.
This Promise was made to Abraham, as well as to Adam & Eve; called protoevangelium.

Abraham Justified by Faith​

1 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:​

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
and whose sins are covered;
8 blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”
​

Do you notice anything here? Who does God justify? The righteous man or the ungodly? If the ungodly by what works does God justify them? It's either by their personal intrinsic inherent good works or by Christ's blood and works. It cannot be both.

Romans 5:17 For if, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

Does Paul say free or on conditions of our personal works? Free means free with no strings attached, if there were, then it is no longer or Grace, right?

Romans 3:28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

Are you familiar with Genesis 15?

You are one who needs to reconcile Paul & James, in the Reformed Faith we do not pit them against each other, but are in harmony with one another.

 

[Ladodgers6]

The only thing sinners can add, is more sinning in the world.

I'll give you that, the thing sinners contribute is sin. But Christ came to save sinners!

 

[Josheb]

Deny it.

Already done, and you are shifting the onus away avoidantly. This is your op, not mine. The onus is all, entirely, on you to prove your op correct and you have not done that in five pages worth of posts. Multiple baseless claims have been posted and repeated requests for evidence and proof have been posted and you've dodged every single one of them.

Prove, "Some believers teach their faith alone causes their own works of the flesh to escape the judgment of the Lord." You made that claim. You made that claim, not me.

Prove the claim.

Acknowledge that any believer naming Christ sinning with the world, is not condemned with the world.

Aside from the fact you need to work on your syntax (because Christ i snot "sinning with the world," and I do not know of any believer "naming Christ sinning with the world," I fully acknowledge the truth of Romans 8:1 = There is NOW no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus and you should not have attempted the diverting, or assumed I disagree with Romans 8:1. You are avoiding the op-relevant point. You are not proving any of the many baseless claims made in this thread have any basis in reality and all requests for that evidence are being ignored.

Prove, "Some believers teach their faith alone causes their own works of the flesh to escape the judgment of the Lord." You made that claim. You made that claim, not me.

Prove the claim.

Or, you prove it yourself by agreeing believers naming Christ, who sin with the world, are no more condemned with the world.

No, there is nothing to be proven if the condition you are claiming does not exist. It's impossible to prove or disprove something that does not exist. There's a huge paradox here, Ghada, because if you do not prove the existence of the problem, you claim exists then you are making baseless accusations and proving YOU are the one naming Christ AND sinning with the world. It's not okay to make baseless claims. It's NOT okay to make false accusations with no evidence. That is a sin called bearing false witness. It is NOT to make baseless, unjust accusation in an effort to divide the body of Christ. The New Testament calls a person who does that a devil, an accuser of the brethren. It is NOT okay to abuse scripture to justify baseless accusations for which there is no evidence. That too is a sin! It is NOT okay to avoid the provision of evidence proving the accusations that are so far without evidence, and it is not okay to insinuate anyone who disagrees with this op is automatically guilty of the still baseless accusations. It's not okay to change the subject in avoidance of the op, either.

The solution to all of that is very simple: Just provide some evidence of some group somewhere who, "...teach their faith alone causes their own works of the flesh to escape the judgment of the Lord."

You made that claim. You made that claim, not me.

Prove the claim.

If there is no evidentiary proof, then it is you who is the guy naming Christ believing he won't be condemned for sinning after salvation.

Some believers teach their faith alone causes their own works of the flesh to escape the judgment of the Lord."

Prove it.


Do not be the guy guilty of his own accusation(s).

 

[Ghada]

Do you know what Covenant this is? It's circumcision of the foreskin. Why are you quoting this passage?

The question of who keeps covenant, God or man, is based upon a false idea.

It's not either/or, but both. There must be two to keep a covenant, else there is no covenant.

Does Israel transgress this Covenant?

Hosea 6:7 But like Adam they transgressed the covenant; there they dealt faithlessly with me.

Another wrong question based upon false premises. It's not Israel or not, but Israelites or not.

Many Isrealites did keep Christ's old covenant, and many did not. The former died in faith of obedience, the latter died in unbelief of disobedience.

As I already pointed out, Law demands sinless lives before God to fulfill this Covenant.​

Another false idea. The old covenant was fulfilled by keeping the law, and by offering sacrificed by the law, if transgressed.

We see that having one's own faith alone, results in having one's own ideas and premises alone.

It's nothing new, but as old as false teachers asking Jesus similarly wrong questions:

Mar 12:23
In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.

And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?

This is why God made a Covenant of Grace; Christ comes and fulfills the Covenant of Works for us.​

We can do works with or without grace, but grace is not a person that does our works for us.

I've seen this kind of Christianized form of deifying grace. There were three pagan graces. Perhaps the Christianized Grace deity is also three, for Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Some have also deified their own faith alone, and write it with caps as their very own godhead of Faith Alone.

Now we can say they have their very own Grace by their Faith Alone, who they say is doing their works for them on earth. Is this why they also say their continued unrighteous works are not judged and condemned with the unrighteous? Beccause it's not them doing their unrighteous deeds, but their Grace alone?

It's a Christian paganized version of Paul declaring, Not I, but Christ that liveth in me...

I Will Put My Spirit Within You​

22 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, Thus says the Lord GOD: It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations to which you came. 23 And I will vindicate the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, and which you have profaned among them. And the nations will know that I am the LORD, declares the Lord GOD, when through you I vindicate my holiness before their eyes. 24 I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. 26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules. 28 You shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers, and you shall be my people, and I will be your God.
​

Who will do?

Do what? Make covenant with man by His Spirit? Jesus Christ.

The Lord Jesus Christ makes covenant with them that repent of all their transgressions. He will also reward them with bodily resurrrection unto life, that keep His covenant of faith unto the end.

Scripture shows God makes His covenant with man, and we must keep His covenant faithfully unto the end.

We see however, that those with their own faith alone, make their own covenant of grace alone, that they don't even keep. It's all their own faith and grace alone, that has nothing to do with their works.

Even the world knows that's called not living one's own religion. They rightly call it, hypocrisy. TThe Jews did so by having the law alone, without doing it, and some naming Christ do the same by having Faith Alone, without living by it.

Christ condemns both together: The former is keeping law without faith, which is faithless, and the latter is keeping faith without law, which is lawless.

 

[Ghada]

You didn't answer the question. Is a sinner justified by their repentance?It's a yes or no.

It's another wrong question based upon yet another false premise of faith alone.

Is any unrepented sinner justified by Christ? No. Is any repented saint justified by Christ? Yes.

And address Paul in Romans 4.

#68

By the way who went home justified the Pharisee who tithe, fasted, and prayed and showed outward godliness, and thought himself holier than any other sinner or the wretched sinner the Tax Collector?

The sinner that repented for Christ, and went home a justified saint.

Christ saw the godly sorrow of heart for repentance.

2 Cor 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

​

Humbling ourselves with God is only by repenting of sin and resisting the devil to sin not.

Jas 4:6
But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Those who are sorry, but repent not, can appear humble with sinners, but not with God. That especially includes sinners naming Christ talking about what great sinners that still are. Paul calls it a self-willed humility, that Jesus says is only for show.

Col 2:18
Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels,

Matthew
{23:5} But all their works they do for to be seen of men:

It's the sorrow of the world without repentance, that continues with the death of more sins and trespasses.

2 Cor 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Such dripping off sorriness no doubt works to justify some with others, who enjoy the show.

 

[Ghada]

Already done,

Not with me.

Christ i snot "sinning with the world,"

True. He's separate from all sinners sinning with the world, whether those sinners name His name or not.

and I do not know of any believer "naming Christ sinning with the world,"

Most people preaching the gospel of justification by faith alone, say that they don't know of any believer naming Christ, that is not sinning.

It is true that no obedient saint naming Christ is sinning.

I fully acknowledge the truth of Romans 8:1 = There is NOW no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus

True. As already noted, no obedient saint in Christ Jesus is sinning.

Where no sinning is, there is no condemnation by Christ.

Even though there are sinners naming Christ, that falsely accuse all believers are sinning. It's partly how they justify their own continued unrighteousness, by accusing everyone of "doing it."

It's called justification by consent of common practice.

You are not proving any of the many baseless claims made in this thread

Since no one has even addressed any specific point to prove it's falsely argued, then it remains proven enough for me.

Just stating one's own argument alone, doesn't prove nor disprove anything.

Prove, "Some believers teach their faith alone causes their own works of the flesh to escape the judgment of the Lord." No, there is nothing to be proven if the condition you are claiming does not exist.

If someone believes something does not exist, then they ought ignore it and not argue so much about it, as though it does exist.

It's impossible to prove or disprove something that does not exist.

And so ought not even be argued against.

The abundance of arguments against it, proves it's existence.

There's a huge paradox here,

True. Why does anyone argue so much against something that does not exist?

I don't argue against bluegrass, but only acknowledge some people say their grass is blue.

I do not know of any believer "naming Christ sinning with the world,"

YOU are the one naming Christ AND sinning with the world.

Someone does not believe something exists, argues that it exists?

First someone says something exists, that they do not believe exists. And, then they argue against something, that they say does not exist.

They are arguing against their own unbelief. Yes, a paradox indeed.

unjust accusation in an effort to divide the body of Christ.

Not the body of my Christ.

Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

There be many Christs, but only one that is true: Jesus Christ

I make division between the righteous body of Christ, and the unrighteous body of another Christ, that is naming Christ.

I'm not a member of any unrighteous body on earth, nor do I take part in their unrighteousness.

Rom 1:32
Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

The New Testament calls a person who does that a devil, an accuser of the brethren.

Acgreeing with others, that openly proclame they are still sinning sinners, is agreeing with their own accusation against themselves.

I do not agree they are my brethren, nor the brethren of my Christ. That's not an accusation, but a rejection.

And many of them reject the gospel I preach of my Christ, and so we are in agreement: We are not members and brethren of the same body, nor of the same Christ.

It is NOT okay to abuse scripture to justify baseless accusations for which there is no evidence.

True.

That too is a sin!

True!

It is NOT okay to avoid the provision of evidence proving the accusations that are so far without evidence,

Evidence proving something does not exist? Isn't that called proving a negative?

and it is not okay to insinuate anyone who disagrees with this op is automatically guilty

True. If anyone can show any erring arguments made, in any point at all, then I will gladly correct it.

So far, no one has even addressed any point in particular, much less shown any flaw in the argument made from Scripture provided.

Once again, stating one's own case alone, does not prove nor disprove anything. Much less saying something does not even exist.

It's not okay to change the subject in avoidance of the op, either.

Such as saying it doesn't exist? And demanding proof that is does exist?

It exists in the argument. And it's existence is proven by much argument against it.

Do not be the guy guilty of his own accusation(s).

As in guilty of committing sins and trespasses, and accusing oneself of it?

That proves the confession is an accusation of one's own guilt.

There be many accusing themselves of such guiltiness, and yet decalre themselves not guilty.

Pardoxes abound...

 

[Ghada]

Isn't Christ's works more than sufficient to redeem the ungodly?​

You therefore agree there is still condemnation for believers doing unrighteousness, the same as for them not naming Christ? If we are found doing unrighteousness at His appearing, we too will be condemned with all the unrighteous on earth?

Why keep focusing on the Law to redeem sinners?​

You do, not me. You can argue with others about that.

This ship has sailed when it was breached by One Man's Act of disobedience, thus bringing condemnation on all mankind.​

Men bring condemnation upon ourselves by sinning. It's the same for those naming Christ, as for those not naming Christ.

Except that those naming Christ are called hypocrites by Christ.

All sinners are under the curse of the law, why do you think that is?​

Because all sinners are sinning, and dead in the sins and trespasses.

Paul says in Galatians 3, unless you keep all things written in the book of the Law; meaning without a single shred of sin, only the curse abides there.​

If you want to keep arguing the law, you can do so with others.

I'll answer anything about what I argue. In your case, you'll need to quote me, so that you know it's what I argue.

Therefore, the only place a sinner can now find redemption and salvation is in Christ Alone​

True. By repenting of all transgressions for His sake.

through Faith Alone​

Death is through faith alone, which is dead. The soul is dead by works of unrighteousness. What anyone believes while doing unrighteousness, is unjustified with the righteous Judge.

What we know is that anyone doing unrighteousness, is not believing Jesus Christ, nor has His faith.

Their own works are dead, and their own faith is dead to God.

How can anyone want to live to God, when first of they are hostile and enemies of God?​

When they hear the word of truth and repent for Jesus' sake.

Anyone still sinning of unrepented unrighteousness, is still a hostile enemy of the righteous Lord. Whether they name His name or not.

Focusing on human merits instead of Christ's.​

Human merits are any works done without Christ. Those still not repented of their own dead works, have their own merit alone, and notthing worthy of Christ.

One's own faith alone, only produces one's own merit alone, and both are dead and filthy to Christ.

I also thought that I could achieve salvation through my own merits, like keeping score, trying to out do my bad deeds like a scoreboard, but that is a fools errand.​

Not me. So, this is why you are arguing with someone other than me. Your arguing with yourself.

You can do that on your own. I only want to hear from people that argue with what I write.

Once the relationship is restored between the sinner & God.​

Once any person repents of their sins and trespasses for Jesus' sake, they are now saints of God in fellowship with Jesus Christ.

We want to live to God.​

Saints of God do live to God.

The just shall live by faith.

Unrepented wannabees with good intentions, is not good enough for God's Son and His justification of works.

Because of what He did in Christ for the ungodly who believe apart from works.​

The ungodly not repented of their ungodliness, only believe in doing more ungodliness.

Rom 1:18
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Tit 2:11
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

And anyone teaching justification by faith alone, with ungodly works, are teaching more ungodliness to unjustified ungodly sinners.

2 Tim
{2:15} Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. {2:16} But shun profane [and] vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

It's about trusting in God and his word;​

No doer of ungodliness is trusting in the righteous God, nor His word of truth.

They are only trusting in their own ungodly faith alone, to raise themselves from an ungodly grave unto life.

It's the common lie and strong delusion sent to them that repent not, and trust in their own doctrine alone to justify them apart from the ungodly deeds they do.

2 Thess 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

his Promise what he Promised he said he will do!​

True. Jesus' promise to deliver from sinning, is for anyone that repents of their trespasses for His sake.

Any promise to be delivered from the condemnation and death of transgressions, is a delusional promise ending in an unrighteous grave.

Not what we will do, because we will never do or cannot do because of our sin.​

Any unrepented sinner can and will do iniquity, because of their sin and lust.

Them that will do the righteousness of God, can only repent from their sins, for the gift of faith and righteousness of Jesus Christ.

 

[Ghada]

As I mentioned before, I used to think and believe as you do. It was called living the Gospel, only one person in history did that; that was Christ Alone!

Judging all people by oneself is foolish and for one reason alone: To justify oneself by numbers, as though everyone's doing it.

Just because one person quits and turns back, doesn't mean all do it.

People justifying their sinful deeds by their own faith alone, can only do so in this life. It ends in the grave.

Them obeying the Gospel? This is as I said turning the Promise into Law which is no longer by Grace but by works.

Still arguing with yourself.

2Th 1:8
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 Peter
{4:17} For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God? {4:18} And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

As well as Scripture of truth.

2 Peter 3:16
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

It's the naturally destructive end of them that preach and trust in a gospel of own faith alone.

Gal 1:8
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

​

Do you notice anything here? Who does God justify? The righteous man or the ungodly?

The ungodly are not justified in their ungodliness, except by their own ungodly faith alone. Which ends in an ungodly grave.

The ungodly that repent of ungodliness, are the righteous justified by the godly faith of Jesus Christ, no more in their ungodliness.

Any gospel of justification for the ungodly in their ungodliness, is cursed with continued ungodly dead works unto the grave.

2 Tim
{2:15} Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. {2:16} But shun profane [and] vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

Some unrepented sinners preach that cursed ungodly gospel, by their own unrighteous faith alone.

Matthew
{15:14} Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

If the ungodly by what works does God justify them?

Neither the ungodly nor their ungodly works are justified by Christ. Even if they justify themselves by their own ungodly faith alone.

It's either by their personal intrinsic inherent good works or by Christ's blood and works. It cannot be both.

True. No man doing his own works alone without Christ, is justified by Christ. Only them repented from the own works, can do all works through Christ, and justified with Christ.

1Jo 2:6
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

 

[Ghada]

I'll give you that, the thing sinners contribute is sin. But Christ came to save sinners!

True. He saves sinners that repent of their sinning, from their sinning.

Matthew
{1:21} And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

A false Christ preaches a cursed gospel of saving sinners in their sins.

 

[Ladodgers6]

The question of who keeps covenant, God or man, is based upon a false idea.

It's not either/or, but both. There must be two to keep a covenant, else there is no covenant.

Not necessarily, there're bilateral and unilateral Covenants. In the Covenant of Redemption; in which the members of the Holy Trinity decreed that Jesus was to be the redeemer of those whom the Father had chosen in him, and that Jesus would do this on behalf of, and in the place of, all those sinners chosen from before the foundation of the world (cf. Ephesians 1:3-14). Also note that the Son willingly signed his death warrant and wasn't coerced against his will.

So here you have three parties in agreement. So, it is not based upon a false idea. I asked you are you familiar with Genesis 15? Because it explains this Covenant. I suggest you should research it more to understand it. I have spend years on it, and this Covenant of Redemption and the Covenant of Grace (is the historical outworking of an eternal covenant of redemption). Throughout Scripture from OT to the NT it's the unfolding redemptive plan to the eschatological consummation of Jesus Christ. He is the Last Adam who came into history to fulfill the Covenant of Redemption that was made in Eternity.​

 

[Ladodgers6]

It's another wrong question based upon yet another false premise of faith alone.

Is any unrepented sinner justified by Christ? No. Is any repented saint justified by Christ? Yes.

Can you answer the question? Is a sinner justified by their repentance? It's a simple yes or no, I am not trying to trick you. I just want to know your position on it.

 

[Ladodgers6]

You therefore agree there is still condemnation for believers doing unrighteousness, the same as for them not naming Christ? If we are found doing unrighteousness at His appearing, we too will be condemned with all the unrighteous on earth?

What I am saying is that my works before or even after conversion do not justify me before God. I am justified in the person and works of Christ Alone! If you disagree with this, then please tell me what could I possible add to what Christ already finished?​

 

[Ladodgers6]

Judging all people by oneself is foolish and for one reason alone: To justify oneself by numbers, as though everyone's doing it.

Just because one person quits and turns back, doesn't mean all do it.

People justifying their sinful deeds by their own faith alone, can only do so in this life. It ends in the grave.

Sorry to say this, but you remind of the Pharisee who thought he wasn't like other sinners and said, ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. Instead of looking in the mirror and asking God for mercy and forgiveness he boasted about what godly things he does. 'I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ And this Tax Collector who couldn't lift his eyes toward heaven and beat his chest because he knew in his heart that he was a wretched sinner before a Holy God. Asked God, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’

So, I ask you which one of these men went home justified before God?

So, you accuse me of being a sinner. Yes, I am. But Christ came to save sinners like me. As Paul himself once exclaim, "I am the Chief of sinners!"

15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.

This is why I recanted a long time ago of what you believe today. I believe in the person and finished works of Christ and in him who justifies the ungodly; not the godly, but the ungodly like me!​

 

[Ladodgers6]

True. He saves sinners that repent of their sinning, from their sinning.

Matthew
{1:21} And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

A false Christ preaches a cursed gospel of saving sinners in their sins.

See, you only mention repentance, nothing of the Free Gift that the Gospel Promise gives freely and is received through Faith Alone. You look to the believer for assurance instead of the announcement of the Gospel of what God accomplished in Christ to redeem his people form their sins. This is where I find my assurance and hope, not in what I do, but in what has already been done for me.

But must ask you this, why would even one repent if they relationship with God is not restored? If someone does't believe or trust God in the first place why would they follow him?

And how does a sinner come to the Father?

 

[Ghada]

, and that Jesus would do this on behalf of, and in the place of, all those sinners chosen from before the foundation of the world (cf. Ephesians 1:3-14).​

Oh boy. An OSAS Calvin predestinator too. The only new twist here, is that commonly they don't call themselves sinners chosen before the world.

They only take pride in being prechosen lambs along with the Lamb at the beginning, not prechosen sinful lambs.

Only the god of this world chooses unrepentant sinners for his very own, and elects them into his kingdom.

Also note that the Son willingly signed his death warrant and wasn't coerced against his will.​

True. He submitted His own will to the Father, and He didn't fight back nor try to defend Himself, when wicked hands falsely accused and crucified Him.

Act 2:23
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

And not only were those with His blood on their own hands guilty of His death, but all sinners are judged guilty at His death on a cross, and condemned equally as crucifiers of the Lamb of God.

That includes His present enemies crucifying Him to themselves today, by their unrepented transgressions against Him.

I have spend years on it,​

So I've been told. Some that don't believe plain words on paper, just say so. Some try to change the words to their own will. And some spend years of so-called scholarship to impress themselves and others how they change things around, for their own will.

2 Timothy
{6:20} O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane [and] vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: Which some professing have erred concerning the faith.

and this Covenant of Redemption and the Covenant of Grace (is the historical outworking of an eternal covenant of redemption). Throughout Scripture from OT to the NT it's the unfolding redemptive plan to the eschatological consummation of Jesus Christ. He is the Last Adam who came into history to fulfill the Covenant of Redemption that was made in Eternity.​

Impressive. Nicely shaped. Needs an apropriate comma here and there, but elegantly said.

Rom 16:18
For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Unrepented sinners are still guilty of the blood of the Lamb of God. Only the repented saints are washed in His blood.

And no matter how much faith one has of their own, nor how many scholarly horses and kings they've indoctrinated into justifying themselves, everyone will still be judged by our works equally, without respect of persons.

1 Peter
{1:14} As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: {1:15} But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; {1:16} Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. {1:17} And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning [here] in fear:

Teaching the Bible rightly is easy and simple: Just quote the words, and let them speak for themselves. All from the one same Book in plain english, too.

The Bible teaches itself without other books, manuscripts, nor older languages. It's just a matter of believing the words written. However, believing without obeying is unjustified with the Author. It really just comes down to obedience, which begins with repenting of disobedience to do so...

 

[Ghada]

Can you answer the question? Is a sinner justified by their repentance? It's a simple yes or no, I am not trying to trick you. I just want to know your position on it.

Mar 12:13
And they send unto him certain of the Pharisees and of the Herodians, to catch him in his words.

No.

No sinner is justified with Christ. No one only repenting of dead works is justified by Christ. Having faith alone justifies no man.

Only repented saints doing God's will are justified with Christ.

Are you a justified sinner with unrepented sin? Only with one's own Christ, not ever with Jesus Christ.