Rome's tactics.

[Mikeuk]

Well it seems that debating these things are probably to much for some huh?
Well, I’ll continue, if you feel the desire just jump in.

Just focus on the prime issue from which all others flow.
When
1 the early fathers all teach the same thing/
2 the first fathers were taught by apostles.
All of them tell you the church is physical, that the custodians of truth , and appointed arbiters of disputes, are bishops in succession.

So who in your opinion apostasised?
Do you really think Jesus has no power to keep HIS church on track when he says HIS church would be one and he specifically gave them the power to bind and loose, and told them to hand down the truth?

 

[Mikeuk]

Coming to which Carbon, we know from such as Psalm 110 Priesthoods are forever.
The bishops of the early fathers were clearly priests , and told that they alone could be relied on to preach "how can they preach if not sent?"
So no revocation of priesthood. .

And all extraordinary interventions such as the coming of Christ were foretold by the prophets - they did not happen in a vaccuum.
And as a "calling card" miracles confirmed they were for real when they came, truly appointed leaders did miracles.
Remember the parting of the Red Sea?

Where is the prophesy of Calvin? or Luther?
And what miracles did they do to prove their bonafides as proof they were the real deal. ?
They didnt.


What we know is that there was a physical church based on succession was given the power to bind and loose doctrine
.History shows that is what the early church believed. All agree. None dissent.

Calvin is completely outside that chain , Just like Joseph Smith of the Mormons.
Calvin and Smith have more in common than you think.
Both thought they could decide what was scripture from how it made them feel!
Both thought they alone had the right meaning!

So which do we believe of Calvin Zwingli or Luther ? they all believed in different things (other than that they alone were right!) so where there multiple holy spirits? And they created an army of others who thought they were empowered to make up a meaning of scripture. Luther hated that he empowered others to do what he did with the false sola scriptura He said "it is the greatest scandal, every milkmaid now has their own doctrine"! Their "doctrine" produced the fruits of division> Many Lutherans dont believe what luther did. Many Calvinists do not believe what calvin did! How so?

But if you go back to the early church, what scripture meant is clear in early fathers. That is what they were taught and what they taught and handed down "paradosis" AKA tradition. It is not separate from scripture it gives the CORRECT meaning to it with AUTHORITY for the CHURCH resolve disputes since the succession had the power to bind and loose.(eg Our eucharist is as it has always been)

Where is Calvin in that? Nowhere.
Answer the question.
Why should we care what calvin thinks? Where is his bonafides from succession, miracle or prophesy?

 

[QVQ]

Why should we care what calvin thinks? Where is his bonafides from succession, miracle or prophesy

Why should we care what the Borgia Popes think? Where are their bonafides from succession, miracle or prophesy?

Or did the Borgias think of anything except sin and wickedness?

 

[Mr GLee]

Just focus on the prime issue from which all others flow.
When
1 the early fathers all teach the same thing/
2 the first fathers were taught by apostles.
All of them tell you the church is physical, that the custodians of truth , and appointed arbiters of disputes, are bishops in succession.

So who in your opinion apostasised?
Do you really think Jesus has no power to keep HIS church on track when he says HIS church would be one and he specifically gave them the power to bind and loose, and told them to hand down the truth?

1.Yes the oral traditions of dead fathers called by the Pope patron saints rather than all things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura) God living abiding word.

2. The first apostle Abel was taught by Christ. Yoked with Christ the invisible head his burden was made lighter with a living hope beyond the grave (not Limbo)

If he gave the loosening and binding power to Peter our brother in the Lord, who he used as the denier to teach us how to walk by faith, (the unseen things of Go) He has said it to all born again from above .

Mathew 18: 18 YLT` Verily I say to you, Whatever things ye may bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever things ye may loose on the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens.

He gives the born again believer the ears to hear his understanding loosed from heaven bound on earth. Not loosed inspired from earth Rome bound in the heaven (upside down )

James 3:15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.

He warns us of those who look to earthly inspiration inside dying mankind teach.

1 John 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Is Christ, God's Holy Spirit abiding in you as the infalible teacher? Or do you have another kind of teaching authority called the Pope?

Cant serve two good teaching masters as one Lord. Love one hate the other or vice versa

Can you serve two?

 

[Mr GLee]

Coming to which Carbon, we know from such as Psalm 110 Priesthoods are forever.
The bishops of the early fathers were clearly priests , and told that they alone could be relied on to preach "how can they preach if not sent?"

What are they sent with if not the gospel as it is written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura)

Can they preach the oral traditions of dying mankind (I heard it through the legion of fathers grape vine, called patron saints?)

 

[Carbon]

Just focus on the prime issue from which all others flow.
When
1 the early fathers all teach the same thing/
2 the first fathers were taught by apostles.
All of them tell you the church is physical, that the custodians of truth , and appointed arbiters of disputes, are bishops in succession.

So who in your opinion apostasised?
Do you really think Jesus has no power to keep HIS church on track when he says HIS church would be one and he specifically gave them the power to bind and loose, and told them to hand down the truth?

Thanks for your replies. Hoping to have time to reply in a day or so.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Why should we care what the Borgia Popes think? Where are their bonafides from succession, miracle or prophesy?

Or did the Borgias think of anything except sin and wickedness?

You should care because the one Church Christ established [His Catholic Church], is the pillar of truth; wisdom of God is made known through her.

 

[Carbon]

You should care because the one Church Christ established [His Catholic Church], is the pillar of truth; wisdom of God is made known through her.

Her? You mean pope Joan?

 

[Arch Stanton]

Her?

Her.... The Church

 

[Mr GLee]

Her.... The Church

Which one?

 

[Arch Stanton]

Which one?

The only one... the one Christ established 2,000 years ago.

 

[Arial]

The only one... the one Christ established 2,000 years ago.

Why won't you come right out and say the Catholic church/denomination since that is what you mean? Why so deceptive? Is it because, as has been pointed out many times before, that the only one anointing the Catholic religion as the only church of Christ, is the Catholic religion itself? It has one witness to its claims. Itself. Not the Bible. Certainly not God. So as has also been pointed out, the Popes etc., have set themselves up in the temple of God (the true and invisible church of Christ made up of all true believers) as God---a higher authority than the God of the Bible.

 

[Arial]

You should care because the one Church Christ established [His Catholic Church], is the pillar of truth; wisdom of God is made known through her.

So God was not able to do that Himself, and did not do it through His own word? Has He truly set the RCC in the place of Christ at His right hand?

 

[Arch Stanton]

So God was not able to do that Himself

He did do it... Those are His words in scripture

 

[Mikeuk]

Thanks for your replies. Hoping to have time to reply in a day or so

Thanks for your replies. Hoping to have time to reply in a day or so.

I’m waiting for your answer to the essential question.

Why you disregard the provable teaching of the earliest fathers, and Therefire Jesus, who clearly did give his church a structure, and the power to decide true doctrine.
The Catholic Church still holds the same doctrines, and is the catholic Church

Why you follow a man who was never sent.

 

[Arial]

He did do it... Those are His words in scripture

This is what you said:

You should care because the one Church Christ established [His Catholic Church], is the pillar of truth; wisdom of God is made known through her.

The wisdom of God is made known by God, in His word. So why do you say His wisdom is made known through the RCC? Where does in His word does He give this authority to the RCC? The Catholic religion gives it to herself, and then denies what the Bible has to say. So in order to do that they also appoint THEMSELVES as the sole correct interpreters of Scripture and say they are saying what they want them to say. Truthfully, while calling themselves the one true church of Christ, and saying the wisdom of God is only made knows through them, they show they don't give a rat's behind about God or Christ or the Bible. They are 100% self serving.

 

[Carbon]

Her.... The Church

 

[Carbon]

The only one... the one Christ established 2,000 years ago.

Your Church, the RCC departed from Christ a long time ago.

 

[Carbon]

Just focus on the prime issue from which all others flow.
When

1 the early fathers all teach the same thing/

Really? Pick a doctrine and we will see.

2 the first fathers were taught by apostles.

This must be a Catholic saying. And must have to do with Trididtion.

All of them tell you the church is physical, that the custodians of truth , and appointed arbiters of disputes, are bishops in succession.

So who in your opinion apostasised?

Hint, the RCC is an apostate Church.

Do you really think Jesus has no power to keep HIS church on track when he says HIS church would be one and he specifically gave them the power to bind and loose, and told them to hand down the truth?

I don't think you really know what that means.

 

[Mr GLee]

The only one... the one Christ established 2,000 years ago.

Beginning with Abel the first martyr 7,000 years ago?