Rome's tactics.

[Carbon]

Coming to which Carbon, we know from such as Psalm 110 Priesthoods are forever.
The bishops of the early fathers were clearly priests , and told that they alone could be relied on to preach "how can they preach if not sent?"
So no revocation of priesthood. .

You don't realize who the psalm is teaching about?
I'll give you a hint, verse 4 is not about a pope or Catholic priest.
The Lord has sworn and will not change His mind,
“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.”

But who is this priest the psalm is speaking about?

And all extraordinary interventions such as the coming of Christ were foretold by the prophets - they did not happen in a vaccuum.
And as a "calling card" miracles confirmed they were for real when they came, truly appointed leaders did miracles.
Remember the parting of the Red Sea?

Who denies the prophets?

Where is the prophesy of Calvin? or Luther?

Huh? Dont know anything about that.

And what miracles did they do to prove their bonafides as proof they were the real deal. ?
They didnt.

Do you mean like only the apostles did?

What we know is that there was a physical church based on succession was given the power to bind and loose doctrine
.History shows that is what the early church believed. All agree. None dissent.

There is no successor. That is just a tactic by the enemy to try and destroy the church.

Calvin is completely outside that chain

Thankfully.

, Just like Joseph Smith of the Mormons.

They would fit better in Catholicism.

Calvin and Smith have more in common than you think.

Oh? Please, show me.

Both thought they could decide what was scripture from how it made them feel!
Both thought they alone had the right meaning!

Dont forget your popes and priests, they think they can decide what scripture is.

So which do we believe of Calvin Zwingli or Luther ? they all believed in different things (other than that they alone were right!) so where there multiple holy spirits? And they created an army of others who thought they were empowered to make up a meaning of scripture. Luther hated that he empowered others to do what he did with the false sola scriptura He said "it is the greatest scandal, every milkmaid now has their own doctrine"! Their "doctrine" produced the fruits of division> Many Lutherans dont believe what luther did. Many Calvinists do not believe what calvin did! How so?

This thread isn't about the reformers.

But if you go back to the early church,

I don't think you could handle that.

what scripture meant is clear in early fathers.

The early church fathers spent many hours in study and prayer, and it took many years for them to agree and find the truth in many things. For example, Purgatory, some believed in it, and some saw it as a false doctrine.

That is what they were taught and what they taught and handed down "paradosis" AKA tradition. It is not separate from scripture it gives the CORRECT meaning to it with AUTHORITY for the CHURCH resolve disputes since the succession had the power to bind and loose.(eg Our eucharist is as it has always been)

Those who were hard-core Roman Catholics went their own way on the path or error.

Where is Calvin in that? Nowhere.

Look at the title of this thread again, would you?

Answer the question.
Why should we care what calvin thinks? Where is his bonafides from succession, miracle or prophesy?

What does this have to do with Calvin?


I will go on and prove a few things about your cult, even your pope is an antichrist. Stick around and Ill show you.

 

[Carbon]

Let's discuss the pope first, shall we?

First God did not appoint an infallible superior judge to rule in disputes and such concerning the scriptures. And there is not a single jot in scripture that makes any reference to a prominent, superior, and infallible judge of scripture.

It only seems logical that Peter would have done or said something to indicate such a thing that a pope of Rome would succeed him and have infallible authority. Paul also would have mentioned something of such a weighty matter in his epistle to the Romans. But nope, nothing whatsoever

It would only make sense for Peter to mention something, but he mentions not a word relevant to the matter. In fact scripture tells us Peter was rebuked by Paul, But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. Gal 2:21.

Paul wasn't even the chairman at the first ecclesiastical assembly in Jerusalem. After they stopped speaking, James responded, saying, “Brothers, listen to me. Acts 15:13. But as we see, they all acted in accordance with the judgment of James.

It's pretty much impossible to prove a pope, successor of Peter in scripture.

 

[Mr GLee]

I’m waiting for your answer to the essential question.

Why you disregard the provable teaching of the earliest fathers, and Therefire Jesus, who clearly did give his church a structure, and the power to decide true doctrine.
The Catholic Church still holds the same doctrines, and is the catholic Church

Why you follow a man who was never sent.

Christ who works in us to teach, comfort, guide and bring to mind the previous thing he has taught us is the invisible head

John 14 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father ( not the Pope) will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Why follow after a legion of dying fathers called patron saint gods rather than the promised Holy Spirit.

The bible sola scriptura_warns of those who would seduce the born again believer to look to dying mankind after a legion of patron saint gods(3500 and rising) gods in the likeness of men to teach us .

Call no man on earth Holy Father, Holy See our vicar Christ prince of the apostles etc on and on ) What does your father the Pope or daysman say? Don't pay attention to sola scriptura? Just act as if it was not written by the finger of God?

1 John 2: 26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him (not the Pope dying mankind ) abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

The loving commandment is do not abide in dying mankind the Pope or what the bible calls a daysman ..

Will you obey the living abiding word today ?or another kind of teaching master the Catholic book of a law(CCC) of the dying fathers

Job 9:32-33 For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment.Neither is there any daysman(Pope) betwixt us, that might lay his (Pope) hand upon us both.

.

 

[Carbon]

I also find it amazing that Catholics could believe such lies, especially those who have studied the history. So many popes have been exceptionally ungodly, some were fornicators, occultists, heretics, and atheists. This has been confirmed by papal chroniclers.

How could such people be infallible judges of God's word?
Consider scripture,
The secret of the Lord is for those who fear Him,
And He will make them know His covenant. Psalm 25:14.

Now, I and many know the RCC does not consider the pope to be an infallible judge. But we do know, that when a pope speaks from his chair on matters of faith and morals, RC's claim it is as authoritative and infallible as scripture itself.

 

[Carbon]

As I mentioned before, Irenaeus, a disciple of Polycarp, who himself was a disciple of John arrived at the spelling of lateinos, and concluded that the antichrist would come forth from Italy and the Latin church. Or a portion of it at least. The portion of Italy which surrounded Rome was called Latinum (there is a family history here) and the language spoken here was Latin. Latinus is written in Greek as Lateinos and these letters imputably represent the number 666.

So, if one were to look for the antichrist history can lead one by the hand to Rome, to the Latin church, and to her bishop. Who later was called papa or pope, that is father. The pope was the proprietor of Latinum, where Latinus was king before Rome was built.

Consider this, in the whole world the church service, the mass, etc were all conducted in the Latin language.
Interesting huh?

 

[Carbon]

It becomes very interesting when we compare the pope with the person whose name is expressed by 666.
Don't think so? Then consider this for now.

The seat of his residence would be in Rome, which is built upon seven hills. In revelation 17:1, it's confirmed this refers to the antichrist: Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and spoke with me, saying, “Come here, I will show you the judgment of the great prostitute who sits on many waters,
And in verse 9, his seat is identified: Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains upon which the woman sits,

Thoughts? Comments?

 

[Mr GLee]

As I mentioned before, Irenaeus, a disciple of Polycarp, who himself was a disciple of John arrived at the spelling of lateinos, and concluded that the antichrist would come forth from Italy and the Latin church. Or a portion of it at least. The portion of Italy which surrounded Rome was called Latinum (there is a family history here) and the language spoken here was Latin. Latinus is written in Greek as Lateinos and these letters imputably represent the number 666.

So, if one were to look for the antichrist history can lead one by the hand to Rome, to the Latin church, and to her bishop. Who later was called papa or pope, that is father. The pope was the proprietor of Latinum, where Latinus was king before Rome was built.

Consider this, in the whole world the church service, the mass, etc were all conducted in the Latin language.
Interesting huh?

Yes dead language likely to give the illusion the first century reformation changed nothing. It remind of what some call tongues sounds without meaning.

The mark of the beast is not sign. No signs were given to wonder after .Big difference between a sign and a mark. They must be distinguished

Satan the father of lying sign to wonder after would have it all one in the same

Jesus said it is a evil generation natural uncovered mankind that does seek after

666 the number of Man it represents natural unconverted mankind.

 

[Arch Stanton]

This is what you said:

The wisdom of God is made known by God, in His word.

Eph 3:10 so that the manifold WISDOM of God might now be made known THROUGH the CHURCH to the principalities and authorities in the heavens.

 

[Arial]

Eph 3:10 so that the manifold WISDOM of God might now be made known THROUGH the CHURCH to the principalities and authorities in the heavens.

Eph 3:10 so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church TO THE PRINCIPALITIES AND AUTHORITIES IN THE HEAVENS.

And you have not established the truthfulness of your egregious claim that the RCC is Christ's church. Until you do that your claim remains hearsay. There is no proof, no witnesses.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Eph 3:10 so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church TO THE PRINCIPALITIES AND AUTHORITIES IN THE HEAVENS.

And you have not established the truthfulness of your egregious claim that the RCC is Christ's church. Until you do that your claim remains hearsay. There is no proof, no witnesses.

2,000 years of hearsay? Interesting... witnesses? ECF's

 

[Mr GLee]

Eph 3:10 so that the manifold WISDOM of God might now be made known THROUGH the CHURCH to the principalities and authorities in the heavens.

Well of course through the church using the temporal thing seen (the church) to in order show the eternal things of our One Holy Father in heavens .Not a legion of dead Holy Fathers, Holy See , Princes of Apostles on earth. Difference standpoint of inspiration. (1) earthly of the devil and (2) heavenly falling like rain. .

Our Living Holy Father not seen lovingly commands us to call no man Holy Father, on earth, , as dying mankind

God not seen made known by thing seen The writen word works in the same way the temporal seen freeavled the unseen .God used a Ass as a apaoltes to show he is not served vy the dying hands as a will of mankind

Roman1; 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being "understood" by the things that are made,(the temporal) even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

The 20/20 prescription must be applied or forfeit the spiritual understanding and rather given them the undrstanding to dying mankind as oral traditions of the fathers . no power of God

The very valuable mixing tool given to us freely .Not leaving us as strangers or orphans without it

2 Corinthians 4:18King James Version18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Like Peekaboo now you see it now you don't

I would think you should of learned from Peter our brother in the lord. he learned how to seek after the invisible thing of God not seen. . not not after dying mankind seen . it was a warning to us what not to do not do .rebike God and like Peter forbid the Sonof man jesu from doing the will of the unseen eternal Holy father

Mathew 16: 22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.. . . . . . . (dying mankind)

What do you think was the object lesson? Eligize the flesh of Peter??

Peter was forgiven of his blasphemy against the Son of man, Jesus the temporal dying.

Blasphemy against the unseen Holy Father no forgiveness like cutting of the hand that feeds us his daily bread or called hidden manna in Revelation 2 . Manna meaning "what is it ?? Unfamiliar hidden manna the food the disciple knew not of at first .The power of God both in beginning the workings of the Father in us and finishing it to His good pleasure

John 4:33-35King James Version33 Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat (power) is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

No meat coming from the will of the Pope dying mankind a different kind of daily bread some call the beautiful Rosary.

 

[Arial]

2,000 years of hearsay? Interesting... witnesses? ECF's

The ECF's are not witnesses. They don't all give the same testimony. In any case there was no RCC at the time. There was still only one denomination that was universal (catholic. And the RCC when it came into existence as a tyrannical, state/religious denomination, borrowed the word for its own self gain.) It is actually the RCC that began the splitting into the many denominations. And they had a habit of killing and emprisioning all descenters. For centuries the RCC was filled with nepotism, positions granted as favors or for personal gain, illiteracy, sexual debauchery, cruelty, self indulgence. That is a blatant witness against itself. They only began to change some of these things, (though most them still exist within the structure itself to a lesser degree) because of the Protestant Reformation. These things can be found to be true through historical accounts, and in the words of many of those involved in the Scottish Reformation, as, when the RCC tried to gain control of Scotland as their possession, they sent the worst of the worst as priests and what not.

So the RCC is not a witness for itself but a witness against itself, before it even gets to its teachings. They might as well be waving a banner stating "DO NOT LISTEN TO US. WE ARE AN APOSTATE CHURCH!"

The good news amidst all this bad news is that according to God Himself in His word, is that He finds and saves His people, those He is giving to the Son, wherever they are, and no matter how soft and drowned out by all the heresy it may be, they still hear the voice of the Shepherd and follow Him. That is because it is Christ who saves, not the RCC.

 

[Arch Stanton]

The ECF's are not witnesses.

Ignatius, Polycarp, and Clement.... They are the first echo from the Apostles. They learned under Peter and John.

 

[Arial]

Ignatius, Polycarp, and Clement.... They are the first echo from the Apostles. They learned under Peter and John.

There was no RCC then. Whatever they said regarding catholic--and you really should give the quotes of these men you refer to---were not speaking of the RCC

The RCC has proven itself a false witness to being the one true church of Christ from its very inception, for the reasons I gave and you ignored.

 

[Arch Stanton]

There was no RCC then.

The Way, Nazarenes, Catholic, Universal, Christian - The same early Church... Peter was their leader when Christ ascended.

Whatever they said regarding catholic--and you really should give the quotes of these men you refer to---were not speaking of the RCC

All part of the one true Catholic Church - Clement, Polycarp, Ignatius, Martyr, Irenaeus, Cyprian, Cyril, Papias, Athanasius, Basil, Jerome, Augustine, Chrysostom.

 

[Mikeuk]

Really? Pick a doctrine and we will see.

This must be a Catholic saying. And must have to do with Trididtion.

Hint, the RCC is an apostate Church.

I don't think you really know what that means.

You really don’t care about truth.
If you did you would know the early fathers were taught by apostles.

The history proves beyond any doubt the early church believed
1/ The church was physical, as many Pauline references show.
2/ There was a succession of bishops custodians and arbiters of truth.
3/ the truth was handed down , the meaning of paradosis , tradition
3/ Only those sent can preach.

That is Jesus church, thecatholic church, the Catholic Church,
So if there was apostasy, it was the apostles who did it.
Are you so contemptuous of Jesus that you think he let the first generations go off track?

it doesn’t Matter what Johnny come lately like you and Calvin think scripture means.
You were not sent. Your man made traditon of the Middle Ages is an irrelevance. You can’t even agree with each others.

 

[Mr GLee]

2,000 years of hearsay? Interesting... witnesses? ECF's

Hi I would offer. .

The written law sola scriptura is against that kind of heresy.It is much more than two thousand. It began the moment Moses finished writing sola scriptura as it is written the Book of law no theories as a law of the fathers dying mankind . A succession of dying men whose hope in the oral traditions of dying mankind called fathers passed to the next

When finished writing all the words of the Bible . Moses was to place the Bible on the the side of the golden ark. . gold represent the "hidden glory" the will of God. Gold the only dead rudiment of this world that during creation that he puts"good" seal of approval on.

Genesis 2:12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone. .
Good I think represents the married land or called the beautiful land the eternal before the fall. Spoken of in Isaiah 62.

Then he informed Moses to put that which represent of his hidden glory in the Ark for a witness against them .The Bible was the tool that revealed what is hidden from sight called hidden manna spoken of in Revelation2 . . the daily bread of his living word along with the rod of Aaron to represent the priesthood of believer and the two stone tablets to represent all of the laws .

It was, you come through his gospel as it is writen sola scriptura) or you do not come at all and life remains a mystery . His way of the highway of the Holy Father .

Deuteronomy 31:24-30 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying,Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee. For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the Lord; and how much more after my death? Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them.For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the Lord, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands. And Moses spake in the ears of all the congregation of Israel the words of this song, until they were ended.

No such thing as a apostolic succession oral traditions of dying mankind. The mysteries of eternal life are revealed in the golden book the Bible. (sola scriptura)

 

[Mr GLee]

Hi I would offer. .

The written law sola scriptura is against that kind of heresy.It is much more than two thousand. It began the moment Moses finished writing sola scriptura as it is written the Book of law no theories as a law of the fathers dying mankind . A succession of dying men whose hope in the oral traditions of dying mankind called fathers passed to the next

When finished writing all the words of the Bible . Moses was to place the Bible on the the side of the golden ark. . gold represent the "hidden glory" the will of God. Gold the only dead rudiment of this world that during creation that he puts"good" seal of approval on.

Genesis 2:12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone. .
Good I think represents the married land or called the beautiful land the eternal before the fall. Spoken of in Isaiah 62.

Then he informed Moses to put that which represent of his hidden glory in the Ark for a witness against them .The Bible was the tool that revealed what is hidden from sight called hidden manna spoken of in Revelation2 . . the daily bread of his living word along with the rod of Aaron to represent the priesthood of believer and the two stone tablets to represent all of the laws .

It was, you come through his gospel as it is writen sola scriptura) or you do not come at all and life remains a mystery . His way of the highway of the Holy Father .

Deuteronomy 31:24-30 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying,Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee. For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the Lord; and how much more after my death? Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them.For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the Lord, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands. And Moses spake in the ears of all the congregation of Israel the words of this song, until they were ended.

No such thing as a apostolic succession oral traditions of dying mankind. The mysteries of eternal life are revealed in the golden book the Bible. (sola scriptura)

 

[Arial]

The Way, Nazarenes, Catholic, Universal, Christian - The same early Church... Peter was their leader when Christ ascended.

All part of the one true Catholic Church - Clement, Polycarp, Ignatius, Martyr, Irenaeus, Cyprian, Cyril, Papias, Athanasius, Basil, Jerome, Augustine, Chrysostom.

catholic is a word with a definition. That definition is universal. What that means is that Christ has only one church, one body of believers. It is not a building, a denomination, or an institution. It may and does exist in them, but not all in them are in Christ. All visible churches contain both wheat and tares. So Christ's church as to all who are members of His body, is invisible. That is, no one knows the full number of all who are in His church but God Himself. He is in fact the One who places them in the body of Christ, because He is the One who gives them to Christ. And that is what the apostles and some of the ECF's meant by catholic. They did not mean the RCC. As I said, the RCC did not even exist, so you cannot use the ECF's as your witness for the RCC. And, not all of those you list were taught by the apostles.Not all you list all taught the same things.

One way to know an apostate church is by whether or not they use the whole counsel of God to arrive at its doctrines, or only parts of it. And if what it teaches is weighed against the whole counsel of God will it stand or crumble. The Catholic religion crumbles many times over, constantly stumbling over the stumbling Stone.

 

[Arch Stanton]

catholic is a word with a definition. That definition is universal. What that means is that Christ has only one church, one body of believers. It is not a building, a denomination, or an institution. It may and does exist in them, but not all in them are in Christ. All visible churches contain both wheat and tares. So Christ's church as to all who are members of His body, is invisible. That is, no one knows the full number of all who are in His church but God Himself. He is in fact the One who places them in the body of Christ, because He is the One who gives them to Christ. And that is what the apostles and some of the ECF's meant by catholic. They did not mean the RCC. As I said, the RCC did not even exist, so you cannot use the ECF's as your witness for the RCC. And, not all of those you list were taught by the apostles.Not all you list all taught the same things.

This is the Catholic/universal Church...

Acts 9:31-32 The CHURCH THROUGHOUT all Judea, Galilee, and Samaria was at peace. It was being built up and walked in the fear of the Lord, and with the consolation of the holy Spirit it grew in numbers.

As PETER was passing THROUGH EVERY REGION, he went down to the holy ones living in Lydda.