Rome's tactics.

[Arial]

This is the Catholic/universal Church...

Acts 9:31-32 The CHURCH THROUGHOUT all Judea, Galilee, and Samaria was at peace. It was being built up and walked in the fear of the Lord, and with the consolation of the holy Spirit it grew in numbers.

As PETER was passing THROUGH EVERY REGION, he went down to the holy ones living in Lydda.

You still have not proved yourself except by yourself.

 

[Arch Stanton]

You still have not proved yourself except by yourself.

I gave you scripture... Peter making his rounds to the church throughout... throughout/universal/catholic

 

[Arial]

I gave you scripture... Peter making his rounds to the church throughout... throughout/universal/catholic

But you are calling the RCC the universal church and you have given no witness to that other than the RCC itself. It is not valid. It also is not true, and that is why you cannot do what has been asked again and again. Pointed out again and again. The Catholic religion is not the catholic church.It is in fact, deeply apostate in its teachings, and taking for itself the things that belong to Christ ALONE, to God ALONE. As has also be demonstrated and ignored. And will continue to be ignored because of a deep seated fear I suspect and having been depending on the traditions and laws of men, of the religion, for salvation, instead of upon the utter sufficiency of Christ.

 

[Arch Stanton]

But you are calling the RCC the universal church and you have given no witness to that other than the RCC itself.

They were the first witnesses, so why would you believe otherwise? Why do you believe man 1,500 years later? You are trusting man-made ecclesial communities that separated from the one true Church.

 

[Arial]

They were the first witnesses, so why would you believe otherwise? Why do you believe man 1,500 years later? You are trusting man-made ecclesial communities that separated from the one true Church.

You have not proven that the RCC is the one true church. I have news for you. No denominational or non-denominational church organization is the one true church. The one true church is made up of all true believers, those in Christ, of all time past and yet to come.

And also, the RCC has deviated from those you consider the witnesses to themselves, the ECF, radically and often over the centuries, and does to this day. Even from Augustine---you know, the one Calvin got a lot of his doctrine from. The Reformation might have been contained completely within the Catholic church. That is where it started and was its intent after all. In which case we would be much closer to a visible one congregation community. But they would have none of it. And not because they actually believed themselves, but because they would lose the power and personal gain in many cases. They were out to colonize the whole world, and not just religiously. They figured in those long ago days, they could do so by having huge families, so they created Catholic Laws, that if broken would result in hell. And by joining forces with kings as a state religion. You need to look at your own history.

FYI I am not trusting any ecclesiastical community or any man, or man made traditions. I am trusting the word of God, and when someone teaches something and I find it to be supported by the whole counsel of God, not just parts of it or single texts, I agree with them. I am not trusting a visible church, or any denomination, for my salvation. That is what you are doing. I trust Christ alone for my salvation. He is,after all, the Savior. The One who laid down His life that I might live. I don't need anyone or anything else. There is no one else and nothing else.

You brought up a while ago that the disciples were having difficulty with Jesus saying to eat His flesh and then Jesus asked them if they wanted to leave Him too. You neglected to give their answer. "Where else is there to go?" The Catholic would answer that question, "Come unto us and our traditions." Wrong answer.

 

[Mikeuk]

Hi I would offer. .

The written law sola scriptura is against that kind of heresy.It is much more than two thousand. It began the moment Moses finished writing sola scriptura as it is written the Book of law no theories as a law of the fathers dying mankind . A succession of dying men whose hope in the oral traditions of dying mankind called fathers passed to the next

When finished writing all the words of the Bible . Moses was to place the Bible on the the side of the golden ark. . gold represent the "hidden glory" the will of God. Gold the only dead rudiment of this world that during creation that he puts"good" seal of approval on.

Genesis 2:12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone. .
Good I think represents the married land or called the beautiful land the eternal before the fall. Spoken of in Isaiah 62.

Then he informed Moses to put that which represent of his hidden glory in the Ark for a witness against them .The Bible was the tool that revealed what is hidden from sight called hidden manna spoken of in Revelation2 . . the daily bread of his living word along with the rod of Aaron to represent the priesthood of believer and the two stone tablets to represent all of the laws .

It was, you come through his gospel as it is writen sola scriptura) or you do not come at all and life remains a mystery . His way of the highway of the Holy Father .

Deuteronomy 31:24-30 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying,Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee. For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the Lord; and how much more after my death? Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them.For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the Lord, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands. And Moses spake in the ears of all the congregation of Israel the words of this song, until they were ended.

No such thing as an apostolic succession oral traditions of dying mankind. The mysteries of eternal life are revealed in the golden book the Bible. (sola scriptura)

What you offer is demonstrably false historically and scripturally.
If you read the early fathers you would find out what scripture actually means, and the real physical schurch and succession set up by Christ.

You make all the mistakes of Protestants. Scripture is only the word of God if you have the right meaning.
The physical church sent to preach , and given the power to resolve disputes , tell you that meaning. It is called tradition.

The early fathers from the first generation are all in agreement , none dissent.
So their writings are an historic statement of what the early church believed.
It was not sola scriptura ,which was. Man made false tradition of the Middle Ages.

There is a physical church and succession, and only it was given the power to resolve doctrine.

Calvin and Luther had no standing , and didn’t even agree with each other. Your opinion is just that. One persons opinion that disagrees with those sent to teach you.

 

[Carbon]

You really don’t care about truth.
If you did you would know the early fathers were taught by apostles.

What you mean is, if I don't agree with you, I don't care about truth.

The history proves beyond any doubt the early church believed

The RCC convinced you ay?

2/ There was a succession of bishops custodians and arbiters of truth.

Just because there was a succession of bishops does not mean it's a Christian religion, the RCC does not follow biblical doctrine. Their popes are not biblical, so have as many as you like.

3/ Only those sent can preach.

Well, that rules out the priests of the RCC.

That is Jesus church, thecatholic church, the Catholic Church,
So if there was apostasy, it was the apostles who did it.
Are you so contemptuous of Jesus that you think he let the first generations go off track?

it doesn’t Matter what Johnny come lately like you and Calvin think scripture means.

You mean the Roman pope?

 

[Carbon]

catholic is a word with a definition. That definition is universal. What that means is that Christ has only one church, one body of believers. It is not a building, a denomination, or an institution. It may and does exist in them, but not all in them are in Christ. All visible churches contain both wheat and tares. So Christ's church as to all who are members of His body, is invisible. That is, no one knows the full number of all who are in His church but God Himself. He is in fact the One who places them in the body of Christ, because He is the One who gives them to Christ. And that is what the apostles and some of the ECF's meant by catholic. They did not mean the RCC. As I said, the RCC did not even exist, so you cannot use the ECF's as your witness for the RCC. And, not all of those you list were taught by the apostles.Not all you list all taught the same things.

Amen. But I'm afraid this falls on deaf ears.

One way to know an apostate church is by whether or not they use the whole counsel of God to arrive at its doctrines, or only parts of it. And if what it teaches is weighed against the whole counsel of God will it stand or crumble. The Catholic religion crumbles many times over, constantly stumbling over the stumbling Stone.

Amen

 

[Carbon]

Stay tuned for more RC facts. The Catholics probably won't like them, but, they are facts.

 

[Carbon]

Stay tuned for more RC facts. The Catholics probably won't like them, but, they are facts.

Also, keep in mind throughout this thread that the connection between Peter and the bishop of Rome (the pope) did not become fully explicit until Leo I, in the mid-fifth century. Leo insisted that Peter continued to speak through the whole church through the bishop of Rome.

 

[Arial]

Amen. But I'm afraid this falls on deaf ears.

Amen

It does fall on deaf ears. And fearful minds. I would hesitate only slightly to identify the Catholic religion as a cult. And the slightly is only because I believe there are saved persons caught up in the religion. For one thing it is handed down through families. But it has a leader, the Pope, who all other members of the hierarchy are subject to. What he says goes. From infancy the members are instilled with fear of leaving the religion as they are talk that defecting from it will cause them to go to hell. They are taught that every sin, will send them to hell, and the only way to avoid that is to participate in the church's traditions of the Eucharist, confession before a Catholic priest, absolution made by the Catholic priest (they forgive sins not God) and doing penance. Works. It is at the very least cultish, for fear of hell is the thing they use to keep members too.

But you never know when God will open a set of deaf ears. We do our part. Contending for the faith. Identifying false teaching, giving the correct teaching from the Bible, not from ourselves. God does with it as He wills.

 

[Carbon]

Catholics read your history. It was not until the late second or early third century that Catholic tradition came to regard Peter as the first Bishop of Rome. And it was Linus, not Peter who was considered in the earliest succession lists to be the first pope. There isn't even a lot known about Linus, but they say he was a Bishop for about 12 years.

 

[Carbon]

It does fall on deaf ears. And fearful minds. I would hesitate only slightly to identify the Catholic religion as a cult. And the slightly is only because I believe there are saved persons caught up in the religion. For one thing it is handed down through families. But it has a leader, the Pope, who all other members of the hierarchy are subject to. What he says goes. From infancy the members are instilled with fear of leaving the religion as they are talk that defecting from it will cause them to go to hell. They are taught that every sin, will send them to hell, and the only way to avoid that is to participate in the church's traditions of the Eucharist, confession before a Catholic priest, absolution made by the Catholic priest (they forgive sins not God) and doing penance. Works. It is at the very least cultish, for fear of hell is the thing they use to keep members too.

But you never know when God will open a set of deaf ears. We do our part. Contending for the faith. Identifying false teaching, giving the correct teaching from the Bible, not from ourselves. God does with it as He wills.

Agreed.

I also agree that there are some elect in the RCC, consider Luther and Calvin.

 

[Carbon]

Catholics read your history. It was not until the late second or early third century that Catholic tradition came to regard Peter as the first Bishop of Rome. And it was Linus, not Peter who was considered in the earliest succession lists to be the first pope. There isn't even a lot known about Linus, but they say he was a Bishop for about 12 years.

I know this presents a big problem for the religion.

It also shows how they fall year after year.

 

[Arial]

The Apostle Peter in Rome

Brown University Religious Studies professor Nicola Denzey Lewis answers frequently asked questions about the apostle Peter

www.biblicalarchaeology.org

Interesting read.

 

[Carbon]

Here is a brief history of one pope for now.

Honorius I
He is one of the few popes in history to have been condemned by an ecumenical council (the third Council of Constantinople in 680-681 for doctrinal deviation. One source indicates that Honorius, elected on October 27 625, only two days after the death of Boniface V, did not wait for imperial approval of his consecration.

 

[Carbon]

The Apostle Peter in Rome

Brown University Religious Studies professor Nicola Denzey Lewis answers frequently asked questions about the apostle Peter

www.biblicalarchaeology.org

Interesting read.

Just read it, haha. Oh they try so hard.

 

[Mr GLee]

What you offer is demonstrably false historically and scripturally.
If you read the early fathers you would find out what scripture actually means, and the real physical schurch and succession set up by Christ.

You make all the mistakes of Protestants. Scripture is only the word of God if you have the right meaning.
The physical church sent to preach , and given the power to resolve disputes , tell you that meaning. It is called tradition.

The early fathers from the first generation are all in agreement , none dissent.
So their writings are an historic statement of what the early church believed.
It was not sola scriptura ,which was. Man made false tradition of the Middle Ages.

There is a physical church and succession, and only it was given the power to resolve doctrine.

Calvin and Luther had no standing , and didn’t even agree with each other. Your opinion is just that. One persons opinion that disagrees with those sent to teach you.

Why in the world would want to read what you call church fathers. They have the same bible as we have today.

If I am interested in other people's opinions called heresies, personal commentaries, there are are plenty to chat with here. Can't commune with the dead what some call patron saints Can you?

It's what the head Christ of the church that teaches us that matters. We seek his approval according to his living loving commandment to study rightly divide sola scriptura

Will you obey the living word below today or is it dead to Catholics.?

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Warning , warning Will Robinson warning, danger, danger Do not trust those who say we need dying mankind to teach us .Christ is our teacher comforter guide and it is he that brings to our memory the previous things .

Will you heed the loving warning below Or is it there for no reason?

1 John 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him

Will you abide in Him today?

Can you respond to the living voice of Christ the invisible head or will you continue to call dying mankind Holy Father on earth and not heed that warning also? Do you heed to any of the warnings in the Bible ?Or put you finger in your ear and continue to deny sola scriptura? ?

Just how many Holy Fathers are in heaven today .(3500 patron saint gods) the legion? Or mne manner Matthew 6 hallowed by that one name ?

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. (Not Rome Italy)

He warns those who usurp the teaching authority of our Lord of lords, King of kings and give it to dating mankind

Maybe you should study Catholicism it does not seem you know what the Pope teaches the non venerable pew warmers ?

 

[Carbon]

Maybe you should study Catholicism it does not seem you know what the Pope teaches the non venerable pew warmers ?

Great point. Catholics should study Catholicism, many would be very surprised at what they would learn.

 

[Mr GLee]

catholic is a word with a definition. That definition is universal. What that means is that Christ has only one church, one body of believers. It is not a building, a denomination, or an institution. It may and does exist in them, but not all in them are in Christ. All visible churches contain both wheat and tares. So Christ's church as to all who are members of His body, is invisible. That is, no one knows the full number of all who are in His church but God Himself. He is in fact the One who places them in the body of Christ, because He is the One who gives them to Christ. And that is what the apostles and some of the ECF's meant by catholic. They did not mean the RCC. As I said, the RCC did not even exist, so you cannot use the ECF's as your witness for the RCC. And, not all of those you list were taught by the apostles.Not all you list all taught the same things.

One way to know an apostate church is by whether or not they use the whole counsel of God to arrive at its doctrines, or only parts of it. And if what it teaches is weighed against the whole counsel of God will it stand or crumble. The Catholic religion crumbles many times over, constantly stumbling over the stumbling Stone.

Universal means everyone .Catholicism the teaching of universalism. every one must suffer and wonder,suffer and wonder . . . after they take thier last breath except for the queen of heaven named after our blessed sister in the Lord Mary .Teaching She a female god alone received the fullness of Grace the whole price of salvation.

I heard once what some call Queen Mother she comforts those in limbo or purgatory (one in the same thing) and even comforts the Protestants in a hope they repent at her teaching (oral traditions of dying mankind )

Universalism = Catholicism nobody dies

Genesis 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

In efect. . lust after my beauty. . why believe in a Holy Father not seen ?

Paul who left his previous church as Saul murdered Christians as a law of the fathers the Pharisees with Sadducees ,Just like today the Roman Catholics with the Eastern Orthodox church both deny sola scriptura. Then Paul joined the new sect called the Nazarene or the Way.

They sought after born again Paul as #1 on most wanted dead or alive hit list And tried to judge him by a law of dying mankind " I heard it through the father grape vine" . Paul turned inspiration right side up, not earthly as a oral tradition of dying mankind. but heavenly falling down like rain .

They worshiped a legion of fathers as if it was our one Holy Father the unseen head of the church . They did not prove what they set out to do worship a legion of dead fathers above sola scriptura (all things writen in the law and true prophets)

Acts 24:5 For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes: Who also hath gone about to profane the temple: whom we took, and would have judged according to our law.

Their law, Again oral traditons of dying mankind

Acts 24:13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: (sola scriptura)

There are seven churches as sects to represent complete. listed in Revelation 2 and 3.

The Nicolaitans name after its founder Nicodemus like a Pope were trusting in the oral traditions of men as a higher authority than that of sola scriptura He lovingly rebuked them and informed them to return to thier first love hearing Christ and believing God not seen They were to do the first works believe God not dying mankind,

Revelation 2:4-7 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches;(every denomination) To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God