Marian Dogmas

[makesends]

A good tree!

Biblical Principle

A good tree CANNOT bear bad fruit!
A bad tree (sinner) cannot bear good fruit! (Savior / salvation)

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Matt 1:21 Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation! This reflects the immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!
Lk 1:38 consented to our salvation!

A good tree (immaculate conception) Lk 1:49 God has done this and it is marvelous in our eyes!

A Good tree cannot bear bad fruit!
A biblical principle approved by Jesus even though He knew it would be used to defend His sinless mother!


(Not excessive posting about Mary, just answering his questions)

Thks

Excessive (I count 6) posts to my one question, and you haven't answered it. I asked how do these facts render Mary veneration-worthy special, and all you show me is her being special.

You did mention one false thing that might make her veneration-worthy, I suppose, if true, but it is false as the day is long, not to mention that you list it as only one of many things that make her merely special. Mary was not sinless. That is RCC made-up nonsense.

 

[1Thess521]

If I don’t pray to you how will you know if im asking for prayer?

all prayer is directed only to God who alone is the source of grace, but thru the intercession of the saints

Jesus Christ is the source of all grace Jn 1:16:17

But the church shares in not only His infinite merits and the graces that come from them but all the merits if the saints!

Thanks

you posted:

"If I don’t pray to you how will you know if im asking for prayer?​

all prayer is directed only to God who alone is the source of grace, but thru the intercession of the saints"​

Please explain your contradiction
and note the following.

the word "pray" means to request of of a deity EVERY SINGLE TIME proseuchomai is used in the New Testament!!!!​

Pray (4336) (proseuchomai from pros = toward, facing, before [emphasizing the direct approach of the one who prays in seeking God’s face] + euchomai = originally to speak out, utter aloud, express a wish, then to pray or to vow. Greek technical term for invoking a deity) in the NT is always used of prayer addressed to God (to Him as the object of faith and the One who will answer one’s prayer) and means to speak consciously (with or without vocalization) to Him, with a definite aim.​

here is a direct question:\
QUESTION---->As the word "pray" is used in the NT by Jesus and the Apostles: are we to pray to a non-deity?

 

[Alive]

The Mother of God
Immaculate conception (sinless)
Perpetual virginity
Assumption and crowning Mary queen of heaven (that alone makes her special)
And devotion to Mary of whom all graces come!

This is a real problem, Don.
You keep posting this and yet are not answering questions asked to defend with scripture in any kind of cohesive reasonable manner.
This forum is for honest discussion, not highway signs.

 

[1Thess521]

Immaculate conception (sinless)

Can you explain why the Eastern Orthodox Church; founded by an Apostle, having all of your Scriptures (and more) reject the doctrine or dogma of Mary's Immaculate Conception?

 

[1Thess521]

The bride of Christ, his chaste virgin is reckoned as the mother of all born again Christians .She is pictured in Revaltion 12

Haydock's Catholic approved Bible Commentary

"A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet."​

By this woman, interpreters commonly understand the Church of Christ, shining with the light of faith, under the protection of the sun of justice, Jesus Christ. The moon, the Church, hath all changeable things of this world under her feet, the affections of the faithful being raised above them all. --- A woman: the Church of God.​

It may also, by allusion, be applied to our blessed Lady [the Virgin Mary].​

The Church is clothed with the sun, that is, with Christ: she hath the moon, that is, the changeable things of the world, under her feet; and the twelve stars with which she is crowned, are the twelve apostles: she is in labour and pain, whilst she brings forth her children, and Christ in them, in the midst of afflictions and persecutions. (Challoner) --- On her head....twelve stars, her doctrine being delivered by the twelve apostles and their successors. (Witham)"​

-----------------

Possible allusion is NOT a proof text

 

[makesends]

Are the reformers included in the rcc?

The defend:

The Mother of God
Immaculate conception (sinless)
Perpetual virginity
Assumption and crowning Mary queen of heaven (that alone makes her special)
And devotion to Mary of whom all graces come!

“I esteem immensely the Mother of God, the ever chaste, immaculate Virgin Mary.” Zwingli

Since Gen 3:15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.
(Enmities total war, none of satan’s works found in Her immaculate purity)

Lk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, Mary full of Grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
(Immaculate purity, full of grace, blessed)

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Mary must have immaculate purity)

Lk 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. (Preserved from all sin in virtue of the merits of the blood of the savior who is Her son)

Lk 1:49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.

“Things plural”

(Immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus)

Song of Solomon 4:1 Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves' eyes within thy locks: thy hair is as a flock of goats, that appear from mount Gilead.

Rev 12:1 a woman clothed with the sun.
(Immaculate purity) a sinner? Lk 1:35

Since when does the Holy Ghost conceive in a sinner? Matt 1:20

Since when does sinner bear the Holy savior? The Holy Son of God? Lk 1:35

Ex 25 see how holy, pure, and consecrated to God’s holy purpose:


Jesus Christ took flesh and blood from a sinner?

The Holy Spirit of God conceived in a sinner the eternal salvation of God and the holy Son of God?

Anything consecrated to God and His service (purposes) must be immaculate clean and pure, covered in Gold. Immaculate purity!

Immaculate conception (sinless)

We (I say as if I was one of the Reformed) do not follow the Reformers, but Christ. Our reference for behavior and doctrine is the Scriptures —not the reformers.

 

[1Thess521]

@Mr GLee @donadams

Can any Catholic explain why anyone's salvation is dependent upon their believing Mary never once had sex with her husband AFTER Jesus was born?

 

[Alive]

““Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is His mother not called Mary, and His brothers, James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas?”


(Matthew 13:55 NAS20

Accordance

accordance.bible

 

[donadams]

I provided lots of scripture

Which one to not believe?

 

[donadams]

Can you explain why the Eastern Orthodox Church; founded by an Apostle, having all of your Scriptures (and more) reject the doctrine or dogma of Mary's Immaculate Conception?

I cant speak for them

 

[1Thess521]

you posted:

"If I don’t pray to you how will you know if im asking for prayer?​

all prayer is directed only to God who alone is the source of grace, but thru the intercession of the saints"​

Please explain your contradiction
and note the following.

the word "pray" means to request of of a deity EVERY SINGLE TIME proseuchomai is used in the New Testament!!!!​

​

Pray (4336) (proseuchomai from pros = toward, facing, before [emphasizing the direct approach of the one who prays in seeking God’s face] + euchomai = originally to speak out, utter aloud, express a wish, then to pray or to vow. Greek technical term for invoking a deity) in the NT is always used of prayer addressed to God (to Him as the object of faith and the One who will answer one’s prayer) and means to speak consciously (with or without vocalization) to Him, with a definite aim.​

here is a direct question:\
QUESTION---->As the word "pray" is used in the NT by Jesus and the Apostles: are we to pray to a non-deity?

@donadams see above

 

[1Thess521]

I cant speak for them

But according to you, Mary’s immaculate conception is found in scripture, right?

 

[1Thess521]

nt

 

[donadams]

@donadams see above

Pray has more than one meaning
Pray can be a simple request

 

[donadams]

But according to you, Mary’s immaculate conception is found in scripture, right?

Yes

 

[1Thess521]

Pray has more than one meaning
Pray can be a simple request

We are discussing the biblical concept of prayer, is there a reason why you refuse to use the way it is described or defined in scripture?

 

[donadams]

nt

Yes

 

[1Thess521]

@Mr GLee @donadams

Can any Catholic explain why anyone's salvation is dependent upon their believing Mary never once had sex with her husband AFTER Jesus was born?

@donadams
Still waiting

 

[donadams]

@donadams
Still waiting

The Christian religion is not something we can make up or a buffet where we can choose this and not that, it is a covenant with revealed truth eph 4:5 jude 1:3
All the truths revealed by Christ our Lord and commanded to be taught by His church matt 28:19-20

 

[1Thess521]

The Christian religion is not something we can make up or a buffet where we can choose this and not that, it is a covenant with revealed truth eph 4:5 jude 1:3
All the truths revealed by Christ our Lord and commanded to be taught by His church matt 28:19-20

Mary's mother's name is Anne:
no one's salvation is dependent on believing that.

i asked
Please plain why anyone's salvation is dependent upon their believing Mary never once had sex with her husband AFTER Jesus was born?