The Church of Rome denies Jesus came in the flesh

[Muckah]

So, you are here to simply be as insulting as possible? No discussion?

There's remedies for that too.

Of course, there's opportunity to change your mind, turn things around and have a discussion....

You keep getting lots of chances, it's kinda fun being ridiculing isn't it?. But it's masking real pain too.

I am sorry for the pain, but it doesn't exist because of us.

[MOD EDIT: Rules-violating content removed.]

 

[Muckah]

So, you are here to simply be as insulting as possible? No discussion?

There's remedies for that too.

Of course, there's opportunity to change your mind, turn things around and have a discussion....

You keep getting lots of chances, it's kinda fun being ridiculing isn't it?. But it's masking real pain too.

I am sorry for the pain, but it doesn't exist because of us.

{Edit by admin for violation of rule #2.2}. When you have Christianity in decline the way it is it's no wonder it was prophesied. It's difficult to have an amicable discussion with supposed brothers and siters condemning others in the faith.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Common sense no longer means anything to Christians. When you have Christianity in decline the way it is it's no wonder it was prophesied. It's difficult to have an amicable discussion with supposed brothers and siters condemning others in the faith.

Disagreement isn't condemnation.

God is both the Just and the Justifier - not man. It's a paradox that God solved, and I'm sorry just totally cool that He did so, even outside of the whole salvation thing though salvation is sort of like the cherry on top. Solving the paradox is just too cool.

If you don't agree with the "main" opinion which all "Christians" agree - would you not then agree said person would not be offended at not getting to keep the clubhouse name, for example?

I don't get to call myself the Queen of England and try and actually pass myself off as her - why should others who don't believe in agreed upon Christianity get to run around misrepresenting a particular group of people by making false claims in their name?

My opinion is that Christianity is in decline because cultural Christianity started teaching the church to compromise with the world, and it did, and so began to die.

But God still has a Church - and she never changed and never compromised. Contrary to popular belief.

It's the uncompromising nature you might have less appreciation for.

 

[Hazelelponi]

[MOD EDIT: Deleted content removed.]

Didn't say it was - did you see me defend it?

I do understand it though.

 

[Hazelelponi]

They actually teach he was taken down alive from whatever he was nailed to.

No dear. They don't. They teach that He was caught up to heaven alive (like Elijah) and that people only thought (it only appeared to the people) that it was Christ who died when actually it was someone else who died in his place.

I'm a former Muslim, now saved Christian. I can attest to this. They attempted to destroy both Christ's death and resurrection in its entirety...

 

[Eleanor]

Judgemental? Baloney? Deal with the text of the posts you are responding to.

Let me ask you this? Are Islamist's or Buddhists Christian because the moral codes are the same and Islam (I don't know about Buddaism) also believes in one God? Is Islam Christian because it also believes that Jesus was real, was a prophet, and died on a cross? Their religion teaches the same Jesus you teach. The only difference is that you claim the benefit that your sins are forgiven and that he rose from the dead. Do you think their Jesus is the same Jesus that Christianity teaches as a doctrinal position?

There is something unique about Christianity from all other religions of the world. Unique meaning the only religion that teaches it. Do you know what that is?
It is that Jesus is deity in essence and also human, and the Holy Spirit is also divine in essence, and so is the Father. Without that uniquenss---it is not Christian. Logic and reality.

And it doesn't stop there!
Only in Christianity:

What God requires of us, he provides for us.
1) He requires payment for our sin, he provides payment for our sin on the cross.
2) He requires faith for salvation (Jn 3:18), he provides faith for salvation (Jn 6:65, Php 1:29, Ac 18:27; see Ro 12:3b, 6, 1 Co 12:3b, 2 Pe 1:1).

Every precept is a promise (power goes along with the command); e.g.,
1) "Be ye perfect (complete)" (Mt 5:48) is a promise that we shall be perfect - Heb 10:14 (complete, sincerity is counted as gospel perfection)
2) The precept to persevere (Mt 10:22, Lk 21:19) is a promise that we shall persevere (Php 1:6, Heb 10:14, 6:17-20, Ro 8:38-39, 1 Pe 1:5; see Lk 22:32).

God crowns (rewards) his own grace and work in us (Php 2:12-13, Ro 1:17),
which is why we will cast our golden crowns (rewards - 2 Tim 4:8, Jas 1:12, 1 Pe 5:4, Rev 2:10, 3:11) at the foot of his throne (Rev 4:4, 10).

Man's religion would never even conceive of such a God.

 

[Arial]

See, I can agree that Jesus had a divine nature - an extra measure of God's Spirit, but he was fully human. He was not like three in one oil. And Hebrews 2:17 shows that his full human nature was necessary for reconciliation/atonement. He was referred to as a merciful and faithful high priest.

Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

An "extra measure of God's Spirit" is not a nature. A nature is the essence of something.

Essence: The intrinsic or indispensable quality or qualities that serve to characterize or identify something. The inherent, unchanging nature of a thing. The basic nature or most important quality that makes a thing what it is. And yes, the Savior also had to be fully human because he came as a substitute for humans. Two natures, never mixed. A human person is a creature and as such can never have the value necessary to forgive the sins of millions of people. Only God has that value, and only God is Holy enough to do so, only God can forgive sins.

Heb 2:17 does not simply refer to Jesus as a merciful and High Priest. It declares that he is a merciful and faithful High Priest. If he only had a human nature and was a created human person, he would have the nature of humans, and the nature of humans by procreation is the nature of a sinner. If he were a created High Priest, then the old order of the priesthood and of forgiveness of sins would still be in effect.

Could you please be considerate and answer the questions I posed in my post?

 

[Arial]

Islam doesn't teach that Jesus died on a cross. Just so you know.

I stand corrected on that point. I have not read anything on that religion since 9-11. And my memory picks and chooses what to retain.

 

[Eleanor]

God-breathed? The originals are God-breathed. The scriptures are no longer inerrant. Man has had his hands in it too long.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

John 1:1 - There's over 50 ways to interpret John 1:1. In the beginning was God's Speech, and God's speech was with God, and God's speech was God - means - in the beginning - God's speech is all there was. V. 14 - and God's speech was made flesh.

Not in the context of the meaning of logos to the Greeks, which in Greek philosophy was the First Cause, great Intelligence and Reason behind the universe.
John was speaking the language the Greeks understood when he declared "And the logos was God. . .the logos became flesh and dwelt among us."

You either believe it or you don't.

It's not complicated.

 

[Muckah]

No dear. They don't. They teach that He was caught up to heaven alive (like Elijah) and that people only thought (it only appeared to the people) that it was Christ who died when actually it was someone else who died in his place.

I'm a former Muslim, now saved Christian. I can attest to this. They attempted to destroy both Christ's death and resurrection in its entirety...

Depends on which sect or offshoot of Islam. I don't remember which one but there is a sect of Islam that believes such.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Depends on which sect or offshoot of Islam. I don't remember which one but there is a sect of Islam that believes such.

All 5 schools of Islam teach it.

But I'm not here to argue Islam. I already know where they hang out and if I wanted to talk about Islam I'd be there. I just meant to correct a sister in faith just in case it was necessary information.

 

[Arial]

{Edit by admin for violation of rule #2.2}. When you have Christianity in decline the way it is it's no wonder it was prophesied. It's difficult to have an amicable discussion with supposed brothers and siters condemning others in the faith.

Brothers and sisters in Christ (Christians) have unity of doctrinal foundation. The Trinity is one of those doctrines. Any Christian worth his salt will not leave non Trinitarian teaching unchallenged.

And one more time (that means it is the last time before action is taken for the rules violation of accusing people of doing what they are not doing.) What you are teaching is not a part of Christian doctrine. It is the heresy being condemned, not the person.

If it is agreement you want, talk to those of like mind----- other Unitarians. And don't expect a conversation to be amicable when you come into our home and tell us we have no common sense, are idiots, confused etc. Hate speech against us and the Trintiy.

 

[Muckah]

Brothers and sisters in Christ (Christians) have unity of doctrinal foundation. The Trinity is one of those doctrines. Any Christian worth his salt will not leave non Trinitarian teaching unchallenged.

And one more time (that means it is the last time before action is taken for the rules violation of accusing people of doing what they are not doing.) What you are teaching is not a part of Christian doctrine. It is the heresy being condemned, not the person.

If it is agreement you want, talk to those of like mind----- other Unitarians. And don't expect a conversation to be amicable when you come into our home and tell us we have no common sense, are idiots, confused etc. Hate speech against us and the Trintiy.

Let me remind you...

New Barna Survey: Only 16% of Christians Believe In The Trinity?

(Protestia) In a new nationwide survey released by George Barna for the Arizona Christian University, only 16% of self-proclaimed Christians believe in the Trinity. While impossible to fully compre…

christianresearchnetwork.org

 

[Hazelelponi]

Let me remind you...

New Barna Survey: Only 16% of Christians Believe In The Trinity?

(Protestia) In a new nationwide survey released by George Barna for the Arizona Christian University, only 16% of self-proclaimed Christians believe in the Trinity. While impossible to fully compre…

christianresearchnetwork.org

It's a poll of 100 people.

Not a large pool to make a broad determination from.

However, I think we all agree visible Christianity is in decline.

 

[Fred]

Let me remind you...

New Barna Survey: Only 16% of Christians Believe In The Trinity?

(Protestia) In a new nationwide survey released by George Barna for the Arizona Christian University, only 16% of self-proclaimed Christians believe in the Trinity. While impossible to fully compre…

christianresearchnetwork.org

Let me remind you...

F

Post in thread 'My statement of Faith using the forum's statement of Faith to show that I basically have the same believer, some with only minor adjustments'

May 22, 2025

People are changing their minds...

New Barna Survey: Only 16% of Christians Believe In The Trinity?

(Protestia) In a new nationwide survey released by George Barna for the Arizona Christian University, only 16% of self-proclaimed Christians believe in the Trinity. While impossible to fully compre…

christianresearchnetwork.org

I think it should read, "...professed Christians..."

If one claims to be a Christian, but then denies the Trinity proves he/she is not a Christian.

• Fred

• 

 

[Arial]

Let me remind you...

New Barna Survey: Only 16% of Christians Believe In The Trinity?

(Protestia) In a new nationwide survey released by George Barna for the Arizona Christian University, only 16% of self-proclaimed Christians believe in the Trinity. While impossible to fully compre…

christianresearchnetwork.org

Do you believe political surveys and polls? I am not convinced of either the measure they measured with or what it is they consider a Christian. If they consider everyone that calls themselves Christians, the survey would include people who simply attend a "Christian" church, Unitarians, Mormons, Jehovah Witness, etc. The last three are not Christian. The survey is meaningless. I don't know why you think the people on here are dumb enough to give it any weight. The people taking the survey were just as ignorant of the doctrines intrinsic to Christianity as you seem to be. The very title is self-defeating. There aren't any Christians who deny the Trinity. If they do, they have denied the very thing that makes Christianity its own unique religion. LOL,LOL.

 

[Muckah]

Do you believe political surveys and polls? I am not convinced of either the measure they measured with or what it is they consider a Christian. If they consider everyone that calls themselves Christians, the survey would include people who simply attend a "Christian" church, Unitarians, Mormons, Jehovah Witness, etc. The last three are not Christian. The survey is meaningless. I don't know why you think the people on here are dumb enough to give it any weight. The people taking the survey were just as ignorant of the doctrines intrinsic to Christianity as you seem to be. The very title is self-defeating. There aren't any Christians who deny the Trinity. If they do, they have denied the very thing that makes Christianity its own unique religion. LOL,LOL.

The trinity doctrine never defined Christianity. Most sensible and logical people know that a man that lived on this planet cannot be God. There are trillions upon trillions of planets that have likely fallen over billions of years that needed a savior. We are just one small example of bigger things. There are likely many planets in our galaxy with earths and humans on them.

Like I said. The problem with Trinity is that over the course of over 1,000 years thousands of books and sermons on Trinity were published and my goodness we can't say they were all wrong. People who are willing to change their mind see it - Jesus was a man otherwise if he were God, he would not be able to be tempted blowing a hole in the atonement.

 

[Eleanor]

The trinity doctrine never defined Christianity. Most sensible and logical people

God doesn't choose his own based on "sense and logic" of man, but based on the sovereign will of divine wisdom.

know that a man that lived on this planet cannot be God.

It's really quite simple, you either believe the word of God written in Jn 1:1, 14, or you don't.
Those who do are Christian, those who do not are not.

"And the Word was God. . .the Word became flesh and dwelt among us."

It's your choice. . .which necessarily is to reject it.

 

[Fred]

Most sensible and logical people know that a man that lived on this planet cannot be God.

Searching the Scriptures takes priority, not your logic (Acts 17:11).

Don't make what you think should or shouldn't be into an idol.

 

[Hazelelponi]

1 Corinthians 1:18-28 "For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God… For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe… but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called… Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God” (ESV)