Marian Dogmas

[Arial]

I can't find it. I scanned through all the posts on this thread and its not showing up, nor is what I quoted @donadams to have said in answer to you. When I right click on the quote, and "open link on new tab", I get a page saying,

Oops! We ran into some problems.
The requested post could not be found.

The tab I clicked on has been up all afternoon. I'll try to refresh it.


Tried —no go.

Anyhow, you had answered someway that he commented against, and I couldn't stand it —had to tell him that whether you agreed or not that Mary consented, that you would think that her consent is irrelevant to whether or not God would accomplish by her all he intended. Her consent is not causal, but submission.

No biggie.

 

[Fred]

There is a difference between veneration of Mary and worship of Jesus. This was formalized in writing way back in 757 AD at the Seventh General Council:

Latria - adoration that is given to the Trinity alone; occurs 5 times in the Bible but always refers to God (Jn 16:2, Rm:9:4, 12:6, Heb 9:1,6)

Hyper-dulia - veneration to Mary (as the mother of God)

Dulia - honor paid to saints and angels; occurs 5 times in the Bible (Rm 8:15, 21; Gal 4:24, 5:1; Heb 2:15)

There are plenty of Old Testament references that distinguish veneration from worship. "Then Moses went out to meet his father in law, and he bowed down and kissed him." (Exo 18:7)...(also 1 Chron 29:20, 1 Sam 24:8)

One of the ways Anna rendered latreuō was by her prayers (Luke 2:37).

Since RC's pray to Mary they are rendering latreuō unto Mary.

The Lord Jesus affirmed latreuō is due unto God alone (Luke 4:8).

Thus, RC's disobey Jesus.

 

[Red Baker]

Mariolatry​

“The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the
women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven.”
Jeremiah 7:18

Introduction:​

1. From the beginning, pagan minds, especially women, have desired a female god – a goddess. They desired a god like their mothers – tender, forgiving, and compromising. They did not want a male god like their fathers.
2. Mel Gibson released the Catholic movie, “The Passion of the Christ,” on Ash Wednesday, February 25, 2004, which Baptists and Protestants are flocking to like sheep.
3. He told Christianity Today in their March, 2004 edition, “I’ve been actually amazed at the way I would say the evangelical audience has – hands down – responded to this film more than any other Christian group.” What makes it so amazing, he says, is that “the film is so Marian.”
4. Gibson knows that Protestants don’t regard Mary in the way Catholics do. And Gibson goes beyond many Catholics when he calls her “a tremendous co-redemptrix and mediatrix.”
5. The martyrs are crying in heaven against Mariolaters, but also crying that some brethren are seeing the movie!

The Roman Doctrine of Mariolatry​

1. Catholics hold that Mary was a perpetual virgin – Joseph never consummated their marriage.
   1. Catholics believe that Mary remained as undefiled by man after Christ’s birth as previously.
   2. Mary’s perpetual virginity was formally declared at the Council of Chalcedon in 451.
2. Catholics hold that Mary was conceived immaculately – she was born without original sin
   1. Mary was conceived in sinless perfection and continued in such a state unto death.
   2. This important doctrine was not formally stated until December 8, 1854, by Pope Pius IX.
   3. Whenever you hear about the Immaculate Conception, it is talking about Mary, not Jesus.
3. Catholics believe that Mary was assumed into heaven – her body was resurrected and glorified.
   1. She arose the third day, was reunited to soul and spirit, and carried by Christ to heaven.
   2. Pope Pius XII on November 1, 1950 declared “ex cathedra” the infallibility of this dogma.
   3. Vatican II (1965) stated that this infallible dogma was decreed due to “popular demand.”
4. Catholics hold that Mary participates as a mediatrix in our salvation – another redeemer.
   1. Mary is more merciful than Christ or God, as mothers are more merciful than fathers.
   2. Scripture condemns such nonsense (John 14:6; Acts 4:12; Rom 8:34; I Tim 2:5; I John 2:1).
   3. If Abraham could not help a “repentant” Jew (Luke 16:26), how will Mary help Gentiles?
   4. Not decreed yet as infallible dogma by a blaspheming pope, some theologians want it.
5. Mary is called Queen of Heaven, Queen of the Apostles, Queen of the Angels, Mother of God, Door of Paradise, Our Life, Gate of Heaven, Mother of Grace, and Second Eve.
   1. It is obvious to anyone who knows God that Mary is not His mother: He is her Creator.
   2. While “Queen of Heaven” is an attractive title, scripture does not associate it with God at all.
6. Much religious devotion is given to Mary through the Rosary, prayers, feasts, novenas, etc.
   1. A full Rosary is 150 Hail Mary prayers and 15 Our Father prayers counted by beads.
   2. Shrines are dedicated throughout the world to the Virgin for the faithful to contribute.
7. While denying Mary is God, Catholic practice toward Mary requires another conclusion.
   1. She is prayed to as “most gracious,” which implies she has more grace than God Himself.
   2. She is always able to influence her Son, and even idols of her figure work miracles.

The History of Mariolatry​

1. Satan – the great imitator and liar – knew of the coming Seed of the woman (Genesis 3:15).
2. The world’s religions have often worshipped a goddess who was a virgin mother of the deity.
3. The Jews turned to Baal and Ashtaroth shortly after the death of Joshua (Judges 2:13).
4. The Jews were guilty of worshipping the queen of heaven (Jeremiah 7:17-20; 44:1-27).

The Scriptures Reject Mariolatry​

1. While Jael was blessed above women (Judges 5:24), Mary was blessed among them (Luke 1:28).
2. When the wise men came to see the young Jesus, they worshipped Him alone (Matthew 2:11).
3. When confronted by a Mariolater, Jesus shut her mouth with the truth (Luke 11:27-28).
4. When solicited by his mother, Jesus set obedient disciples above his mother (Matthew 12:46-50).
5. Scripture clearly denies special treatment of Mary by Jesus at twelve, at Cana, and at His death.
   1. When she sought Him in Jerusalem, He did not admit any special relationship (Luke 2:48-50).
   2. When she sought Him at Cana, He denied any special respect or duty to her (John 2:1-4).
   3. When He saw her at His crucifixion, He granted her no further favors (John 19:25-27).
   4. Jesus called her “woman,” but He never called her “mother” (John 2:4; 19:26 cp 4:21; 8:10).
6. After the marriage at Cana, Mary is not quoted at all; scripture ignores her opinions on anything.
7. Before Pentecost, Mary prayed with the disciples; they didn’t pray or obey her (Acts 1:13-14).
8. While the apostles are specifically said to be foundation stones, Mary is not at all (Eph 2:20).
9. Though committed to his care at Christ’s death (John 19:26-27), John never wrote of her.

The Scriptures Reject Mary’s Perpetual Virginity​

1. Jesus was Mary’s firstborn Son, not her only Son (Matt 1:25; Luke 2:7). Compare other versions.
2. Joseph did not know Mary “till” she had Jesus (Mat 1:25); being a just man, he then did (I Co 7:3-5).
3. If Mary did not have sex with Joseph after the birth of Jesus, she was a wicked woman (I Cor 7:3-5).
4. Jesus had at least four brothers and three sisters by Mary (Matthew 13:53-53 cp Acts 1:14).
5. When Scripture intends cousin, it says cousin, not brother or sister or nephew (Luke 1:36,58).
6. God prophesied that Jesus would be an alien to his mother’s children (Psalm 69:8 cp John 7:5).

​

 

[Red Baker]

The Scriptures Reject Mary’s Immaculate Conception​

1. Catholics readily admit that there is no direct or categorical proof in the Scriptures of this dogma.
2. Despite the corrupt rendering of Genesis 3:15 by the Douay Version, Jesus Himself defeated Satan.
3. Despite Luke 1:28 being corrupted by the Confraternity Version, only Jesus Christ is full of grace.
4. Jesus was conceived immaculately by lacking a human father (Romans 5:12), but not Mary.
5. Mary acknowledged her need of a Saviour as much as any man (Luke 1:46-47 cp Romans 3:23).
   1. Mary thought her estate at the visitation to be low, surely not sinless perfection before God.
   2. She knew that it was due to her bearing Christ she would be blessed, not her own conception.
6. Why did Mary give a sin offering to be purified, if she was immaculate (Lev 12:8; Luke 2:21-24)?
7. If Mary was conceived and remained immaculate, why did God pay her the wages of sin in death?

The Scriptures Reject Mary’s Assumption into Heaven​

1. The argument of silence requires that Scripture does not teach what it does not teach, especially here.
2. Enoch and Elijah were transported to heaven, but Scripture plainly records the facts for us.
3. Catholics themselves realize they have no Scriptural evidence whatsoever, yet it is infallible dogma.

The Effects of Mariolatry are Abominable​

1. Remember the influence the Mother Church’s sacraments have had on Protestants and Baptists.
2. The first mention of Mariolatry in Scripture is by a silly woman – another Eve (Luke 11:27-28).
3. Exalting a woman obviously appeals to women, thus the captivity of silly women (II Timothy 3:6).
   1. False religion is maintained by superstitious control over women; Rome is not different at all.
   2. As was Eve, women are more susceptible to deceitful lies (I Timothy 2:11-14; I Peter 3:7).
   3. Silly. Deserving of pity, compassion, or sympathy. Helpless. Defenseless; esp. of women and children. Weak, feeble, frail; insignificant, trifling. Unlearned, unsophisticated, simple, rustic, ignorant. Weak or deficient in intellect; feeble-minded, imbecile. Lacking in judgment or common sense; foolish, senseless, empty-headed.
4. Mary is presented to Catholic girls and women as the great epitome of a godly Christian woman.
   1. What image comes to mind when you visualize Mary – is it Scriptural? No, it is Catholic!
      1. Compare the bold and courageous Mary to the gaudily dressed fragile doll of Rome.
      2. Why do you revolt at the thought of sweat, dirt, labor, and sex, let alone anger, sin, etc.?
      3. She is a pretty, serene, and sweet mannequin lacking a mind, judgment, and independence.
      4. Where is the hardworking, intelligent, and efficient virtuous woman of Proverbs 31:10-31?
   2. They follow her false humility and servility to provide the mindless religious devotees for Rome.
      1. Rome keeps her women – silly women – in such fear they remain amazed for life (I Pet 3:6).
      2. Believing it to be rebellious to think, they are the most gullible and naïve of all women.
      3. Believing drudgery and burdens a blessing, they provide many children and free labor.
   3. They follow her false freedom from sexual “defilement” to vows of celibacy as nuns.
5. So-called Protestants are not saved from the influence of this gross perversion of womanhood.
6. Let us pray and work to form some Jaels, Ruths, Abigails, Priscillas, and even some Marys, but not after the Catholic model of a mindless zombie in a “spiritual” trance with a halo.

The Hail Mary Prayer​

“Hail Mary, full of grace! The Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen. (Indulgence of 300 days; Rac #691).

The Hail Holy Queen Prayer​

“Hail, Holy Queen, Mother of Mercy; hail, our life, our sweetness, and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve; to thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this vale of tears. Turn, then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us; and after this our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary! (Indulgence of 5 years. Rac #332).

The Memorare​

“Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that any one who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, and sought thy intercession, was left unaided. Inspired with this confidence, I fly unto thee, O Virgin of virgins, my Mother! To thee I come, before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but, in thy mercy, hear and answer me. Amen. (Indulgence of 3 years. Rac #339).

Conclusion: Mel Gibson’s movie is introducing and catechizing American Baptists and Protestants to Rome’s Mariolatry.​

1. How much is Mel a Mariolater? Read the opening quote in the “Introduction.” And consider that he has recently blessed his only daughter, 21-year-old Hannah, to become a nun! Compare to I Timothy 4:1-3!
2. Bible Christians will not have anything to do with his movie, and they will earnestly contend against it.
3. Let us thank the Lord for the faithful martyrs that went before us, and let us live worthy of these witnesses.

Written by a friend of mine~J. R. Crosby

 

[donadams]

Lk 11:27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.

28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

What it says is s true!

Did Christ rebuke her or say shar she quoted was wrong?

Did Christ glorify His mother?

Thks

 

[Alive]

I wonder if you know what that word 'blessed' means.

μακάριος makarios; from μάκαρ makar(blessed, happy); blessed, happy: — blessed(47), fortunate(1), happier(1), happy(1).

Luke 11:27 (NAS20S) While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “ Blessed is the womb that carried You, and the breasts at which You nursed!”

Luke 11:27 (YNG) And it came to pass, in his saying these things, a certain woman having lifted up the voice out of the multitude, said to him, ‘Happy the womb that carried thee, and the paps that thou didst suck!’
Young's Literal Translation.

A few verses where the same word is used.

Matt. 5:3 (ESVS) “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Matt. 5:4 (ESVS) “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.

Matt. 5:5 (ESVS) “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.

Matt. 5:6 (ESVS) “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.

Matt. 5:7 (ESVS) “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.

Matt. 5:8 (ESVS) “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.

Matt. 5:9 (ESVS) “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

Matt. 5:10 (ESVS) “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Matt. 5:11 (ESVS) “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.

Matt. 11:6 (ESVS) And blessed is the one who is not offended by me.”

Matt. 13:16 (ESVS) But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear.

Matt. 16:17 (ESVS) And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.

Matt. 24:46 (ESVS) Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes.

Luke 1:45 (ESVS) And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what was spoken to her from the Lord.”

Luke 6:20 (ESVS) And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said: “Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.

 

[Alive]

μακάριοι

G3107

μακάριος

makarios

makarioi

Adj.

blessed, happy

 

[Arial]

Did Christ glorify His mother?

Christ honored his mother according to the commandment of God. There is no example in Scripture of Jesus glorifying his mother.

 

[donadams]

Christ honored his mother according to the commandment of God. There is no example in Scripture of Jesus glorifying his mother.

Lk 1:45

 

[Alive]

Lk 1:45

Luke 1:39 (NAS20S) Now at this time Mary set out and went in a hurry to the hill country, to a city of Judah, 40 and she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth. 41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 And she cried out with a loud voice and said, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43 “And how has it happened to me that the mother of my Lord would come to me? 44 “For behold, when the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby leaped in my womb for joy. 45 “And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what had been spoken to her by the Lord.”

What stretch this is! How do you get Jesus glorifying his mother?

 

[donadams]

Luke 1:39 (NAS20S) Now at this time Mary set out and went in a hurry to the hill country, to a city of Judah, 40 and she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth. 41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 And she cried out with a loud voice and said, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43 “And how has it happened to me that the mother of my Lord would come to me? 44 “For behold, when the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby leaped in my womb for joy. 45 “And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what had been spoken to her by the Lord.”

What stretch this is! How do you get Jesus glorifying his mother?

Christ glorifies his saints!

 

[Alive]

Christ glorifies his saints!

Scripture says that I am glorified (past tense). Do you worship and pray to me?
Rom. 8:30 (NAS20S) and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

 

[donadams]

Scripture says that I am glorified (past tense). Do you worship and pray to me?
Rom. 8:30 (NAS20S) and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

All members of christ in the communion of saints pray for each other so yes you can pray for me and i for you!

 

[donadams]

And we share our n each other’s merits

 

[Alive]

All members of christ in the communion of saints pray for each other so yes you can pray for me and i for you!

That was not the question! Please read my post again.

 

[Arial]

Lk 1:45

Listing a Scripture like that and not even bothering to actually give the scripture, and giving it with no explanation as though it automatically proves your position, will not cut it. It will not be accepted. Yo have been warned about this over and over and over again. Last one.

Luke 1:45 And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what was spoken to her from the Lord.

This is Elizabeth speaking, not Jesus, and you are supposed to be supporting your claim that Jesus glorified his mother. But Elizabeth was not glorifying Mary either. She blessed her. Blessing someone or calling them blessed is not glorifying them. And your point in claiming that Jesus glorified Mary is being used to prove that she is to be venerated---worshiped.

 

[Arial]

Christ glorifies his saints!

The saints Christ has are the ones God gave to him and who he purchased with his blood. And he brings them to a glorified state in due time, but that is not Christ worshiping a single one of them. We worship him. You need to learn what glorify means and what blessed means and use them correctly.

 

[makesends]

Lk 1:45

How does this verse answer the claim, that Scripture doesn't give an example of Christ glorifying his mother? It's a red herring!

Not only was it not Christ speaking those words, but "BLESSED" doesn't mean "GLORIFIED" in any special way. We can all bless each other, and we are all blessed of God. What makes her being blessed mean anything different?

Do you not see how your concepts are what drive your interpretation? You keep doing this! YOU think it means something special because, to you, Mary is special. Bad logic.

 

[donadams]

That was not the question! Please read my post again.

Sorry I didn’t see that word “worship” but no and we don’t worship (((adoration))) Mary or the saints but God alone!

Worship requires intent!

 

[Alive]

Sorry I didn’t see that word “worship” but no and we don’t worship (((adoration))) Mary or the saints but God alone!

Worship requires intent!

Maybe you do not worship Mary, but my experience in the RCC as an alter boy and such as well as much study since, is that she is a object of worship--whether by another name or not.
A rose, by any other name, is a rose.