Marian Dogmas

[makesends]

Maybe you do not worship Mary, but my experience in the RCC as an alter boy and such as well as much study since, is that she is a object of worship--whether by another name or not.
A rose, by any other name, is a rose.

In South America, the 'worship' of all the various Mary's, and of the Saints, to include Saint Jesus, is often, to the RCC's down there as to worship any god that can do things for them (or against them). Some fear the spirit of this tree or that rock or this saint or the god of that mountain. The Americans that claim that Mary is never worshiped have a very narrow use for 'worship', when she is very obviously venerated, and treated as divine.

 

[Alive]

In South America, the 'worship' of all the various Mary's, and of the Saints, to include Saint Jesus, is often, to the RCC's down there as to worship any god that can do things for them (or against them). Some fear the spirit of this tree or that rock or this saint or the god of that mountain. The Americans that claim that Mary is never worshiped have a very narrow use for 'worship', when she is very obviously venerated, and treated as divine.

At some point, LOrd willing I may put together a bit about how that word 'blessing' was used in ancient cultures and how the RCC co-opted it.

 

[donadams]

Listing a Scripture like that and not even bothering to actually give the scripture, and giving it with no explanation as though it automatically proves your position, will not cut it. It will not be accepted. Yo have been warned about this over and over and over again. Last one.

Luke 1:45 And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what was spoken to her from the Lord.

This is Elizabeth speaking, not Jesus, and you are supposed to be supporting your claim that Jesus glorified his mother. But Elizabeth was not glorifying Mary either. She blessed her. Blessing someone or calling them blessed is not glorifying them. And your point in claiming that Jesus glorified Mary is being used to prove that she is to be venerated---worshiped.

Only God may be lawfully worshipped (adored)
And worship requires intent

 

[donadams]

How does this verse answer the claim, that Scripture doesn't give an example of Christ glorifying his mother? It's a red herring!

Not only was it not Christ speaking those words, but "BLESSED" doesn't mean "GLORIFIED" in any special way. We can all bless each other, and we are all blessed of God. What makes her being blessed mean anything different?

Do you not see how your concepts are what drive your interpretation? You keep doing this! YOU think it means something special because, to you, Mary is special. Bad logic.

She as first!
She was the cos of our Blessedness!

May be Elizabeth speaking but its still God breathed Holy Spirit inspired word of God!

 

[donadams]

I wonder if you know what that word 'blessed' means.

μακάριος makarios; from μάκαρ makar(blessed, happy); blessed, happy: — blessed(47), fortunate(1), happier(1), happy(1).

Luke 11:27 (NAS20S) While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “ Blessed is the womb that carried You, and the breasts at which You nursed!”

Luke 11:27 (YNG) And it came to pass, in his saying these things, a certain woman having lifted up the voice out of the multitude, said to him, ‘Happy the womb that carried thee, and the paps that thou didst suck!’
Young's Literal Translation.

A few verses where the same word is used.

Matt. 5:3 (ESVS) “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Matt. 5:4 (ESVS) “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.

Matt. 5:5 (ESVS) “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.

Matt. 5:6 (ESVS) “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.

Matt. 5:7 (ESVS) “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.

Matt. 5:8 (ESVS) “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.

Matt. 5:9 (ESVS) “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

Matt. 5:10 (ESVS) “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Matt. 5:11 (ESVS) “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.

Matt. 11:6 (ESVS) And blessed is the one who is not offended by me.”

Matt. 13:16 (ESVS) But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear.

Matt. 16:17 (ESVS) And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.

Matt. 24:46 (ESVS) Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes.

Luke 1:45 (ESVS) And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what was spoken to her from the Lord.”

Luke 6:20 (ESVS) And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said: “Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.

Thanks so why is Mary blessed?

 

[donadams]

Jesus said the faithful are blessed!

Mary was faithful and the first believer and the cos of all other believers!

Lk 1:45 And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.

 

[donadams]

Maybe you do not worship Mary, but my experience in the RCC as an alter boy and such as well as much study since, is that she is a object of worship--whether by another name or not.
A rose, by any other name, is a rose.

Worship requires intent!
You may knell at your bed to pray before sleeping but you are not adoring or worshiping your bed!

No worship of Mary

Praise, honor, veneration, love, devotion, intercession yes!

Worship no!

Catholic dogma: only God may receive worship!

Thks

 

[1Thess521]

Lk 11:27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.

28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

What it says is s true!

Did Christ rebuke her or say shar she quoted was wrong?

Did Christ glorify His mother?

Thks

"28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it."

i'm blessed: are you?

 

[1Thess521]

All members of christ in the communion of saints pray for each other so yes you can pray for me and i for you!

Are deliberately changing the word “to” to “for”?

 

[makesends]

And worship requires intent

Curious what you mean by this and where you get it from, and why you keep saying it. I mean, even if you are right, what's the point of saying for.

 

[makesends]

She as first!
She was the cos of our Blessedness!

May be Elizabeth speaking but its still God breathed Holy Spirit inspired word of God!

Ok. Let's just say, for the sake of argument, that not only was what Elizabeth said faithfully recorded in God's word, but that what she said was also "Holy Spirit inspired word of God". —How does that somehow translate into Mary being veneration-worthy special?

 

[Mr GLee]

Lk 11:27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.

28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

What it says is s true!

Did Christ rebuke her or say shar she quoted was wrong?

Did Christ glorify His mother?

Thks

The bride of Christ, his chaste virgin is reckoned as the mother of all born again Christians .She is pictured in Revaltion 12

Paul as a surrogate mother espoused Timothy as a chaste virgin to Christ not seen.

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Jesus the Son of man is not ashamed to all us brothers ,sisters, mothers .One is our Holy Father not seen

Matthew 12:50For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Mark 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

Same mother (Christian bride)spoken of in the parable below

Genesis 37:10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?

 

[donadams]

"28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it."

i'm blessed: are you?

Only cos of Mary

 

[donadams]

Are deliberately changing the word “to” to “for”?

If I don’t pray to you how will you know if im asking for prayer?

all prayer is directed only to God who alone is the source of grace, but thru the intercession of the saints

Jesus Christ is the source of all grace Jn 1:16:17

But the church shares in not only His infinite merits and the graces that come from them but all the merits if the saints!

Thanks

 

[donadams]

Curious what you mean by this and where you get it from, and why you keep saying it. I mean, even if you are right, what's the point of saying for.

It means shat it says, you must have a purposeful intent to worship

If a man kneels beside his bed to pray, is he worshiping his bed? No cos he has not intention of worshiping his bed and catholics have no intention of worshiping Mary the ever virgin mother of God!

Prayer, praise, veneration, devotion, love? yes! Worship, adoration, offering public sacrifices to Mary as a god? No!

Thks

 

[donadams]

Ok. Let's just say, for the sake of argument, that not only was what Elizabeth said faithfully recorded in God's word, but that what she said was also "Holy Spirit inspired word of God". —How does that somehow translate into Mary being veneration-worthy special?

Special / unique Mary!
Mary’s obedience!
Spiritual family of God!


Lk 1:38 the one and only “handmaid of the Lord”!


Acts 7:48
Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,

But in Mary for nine months!

King david has love of Mary!

Psalm 26:8
Lord, I have loved the habitation of thy house, and the place where thine honour dwelleth.


The holy church Exalts Mary to the glory of God! She is filled with His grace! Mary’s holiness is by divine grace not her nature!

Mary’s powerful intercession is by her relationship to her divine son not her nature!


Exalted dignity and prerogatives of the divine mother:

Mary is Filled with the plenitude of divine grace. Lk 1:28
Lord is with Mary. Lk 1:28
Blessed. Lk 1:28

Mother of our savior. Matt 2:11
Mother of our salvation. Lk 2:30
Found our salvation. Lk 1:30
Consented to our salvation. Lk 1:38

My soul “existence” does magnify the Lord! Lk 1:46-47

Mary practices of the virtues of Jesus Christ. Prov. 31

The immaculate conception:
Gen 3:15 Lk 1:28 Song of Solomon 4:7 & 6:9-10 rev 12:1
Perpetual virginity: Isa 7:14 Matt 1:21-23 Lk 1:34
Divine maternity: Lk 1:43
Assumption: rev 12:1

Special Mary? Lk 1:28 the Lord is with Her!

Hail Mary, full of Grace!
Blessed art thou among all women! Lk 1:28 & Lk 1:45 & Lk 1:48

All generations shall call me blessed! Lk 1:48

Actually this is an exultation of thanksgiving for having obtain thier eternal salvation!

Exalted did dignity and prerogatives of the divine mother: continued

Mary is the ark of the covenant and the temple of God, God consecrated and dwelt in Her for 9 months and cannot be used for a ordinary purpose, and it is God who glorified his dwelling!

Mary and all the saints obtained grace, virtues, and merits from God’s infinite goodness, mercy and love and their praises end in the glory of Christ the source of all grace and of God. Jn 1:16-17 Lk 1:49

Not by nature but by supernatural grace!

Mary and the saints are what God made them not according nature but by the supernatural grace of God!
Lk 1:49

Glory to God for His mighty works and grace and mercy in His saints!
2 thes 1:10

Mary found our salvation! Lk 1:30

Special? Ya!

 

[donadams]

Ok. Let's just say, for the sake of argument, that not only was what Elizabeth said faithfully recorded in God's word, but that what she said was also "Holy Spirit inspired word of God". —How does that somehow translate into Mary being veneration-worthy special?

Special / unique Mary!
Mary’s obedience!
Spiritual family of God!


Lk 1:38 the one and only “handmaid of the Lord”!


Acts 7:48
Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,

But in Mary for nine months!

King david has love of Mary!

Psalm 26:8
Lord, I have loved the habitation of thy house, and the place where thine honour dwelleth.


The holy church Exalts Mary to the glory of God! She is filled with His grace! Mary’s holiness is by divine grace not her nature!

Mary’s powerful intercession is by her relationship to her divine son not her nature!


Exalted dignity and prerogatives of the divine mother:

Mary is Filled with the plenitude of divine grace. Lk 1:28
Lord is with Mary. Lk 1:28
Blessed. Lk 1:28

Mother of our savior. Matt 2:11
Mother of our salvation. Lk 2:30
Found our salvation. Lk 1:30
Consented to our salvation. Lk 1:38

My soul “existence” does magnify the Lord! Lk 1:46-47

Mary practices of the virtues of Jesus Christ. Prov. 31

The immaculate conception:
Gen 3:15 Lk 1:28 Song of Solomon 4:7 & 6:9-10 rev 12:1
Perpetual virginity: Isa 7:14 Matt 1:21-23 Lk 1:34
Divine maternity: Lk 1:43
Assumption: rev 12:1

Special Mary? Lk 1:28 the Lord is with Her!

 

[donadams]

Ok. Let's just say, for the sake of argument, that not only was what Elizabeth said faithfully recorded in God's word, but that what she said was also "Holy Spirit inspired word of God". —How does that somehow translate into Mary being veneration-worthy special?

God’s mother is not special - unique? Lk 1:43

The immaculate conception of Mary is not special - unique? Gen 3:15 Lk 1:28 Lk 1:49 rev 12:1

Miraculous conception of Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit is not special - unique? Matt 1:20

No one ever had a family relationship with God, except Mary who has three, daughter of the Eternal Father, mother of the Son, spouse of the Holy Spirit but not special - unique?

Daughter of Zion 2 kings 19:21 psalm 9:14 rev 21:2 Zech 9:9
Mother of Son Matt 2:11
Spouse of the Holy Spirit Matt 1:20 Lk 1:35

My soul “existence” doth magnify the Lord! Lk 1:46

 

[donadams]

Ok. Let's just say, for the sake of argument, that not only was what Elizabeth said faithfully recorded in God's word, but that what she said was also "Holy Spirit inspired word of God". —How does that somehow translate into Mary being veneration-worthy special?

Sacred womb!

Blessed!

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Lk 1:42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

Lk 11:27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.

 

[donadams]

Ok. Let's just say, for the sake of argument, that not only was what Elizabeth said faithfully recorded in God's word, but that what she said was also "Holy Spirit inspired word of God". —How does that somehow translate into Mary being veneration-worthy special?

A good tree!

Biblical Principle

A good tree CANNOT bear bad fruit!
A bad tree (sinner) cannot bear good fruit! (Savior / salvation)

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Matt 1:21 Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation! This reflects the immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!
Lk 1:38 consented to our salvation!

A good tree (immaculate conception) Lk 1:49 God has done this and it is marvelous in our eyes!

A Good tree cannot bear bad fruit!
A biblical principle approved by Jesus even though He knew it would be used to defend His sinless mother!


(Not excessive posting about Mary, just answering his questions)

Thks