Marian Dogmas

[donadams]

Amen! Context is king!

Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)

John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

*key
(Jn 3:5 is first put into practical practice in verse 22)

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)

John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

Born again means Baptismal regeneration! The means of Justification, union with God and the communion of saints by the grace of Jesus Christ the mediator of the new covenant!
Mk 16:16 matt 28:19 Jn 15:4 acts 2:38-39 acts 22:16 1 cor 16:13
gal 3:26 1 pet 3:20-21

 

[1Thess521]

@donadams
still waiting
Did a "clean" Mary come from an "unclean" Anne?

@donadams
still waiting
Did a "clean" Mary come from an "unclean" Anne?

 

[Carbon]

Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”

Hello Don.
Yes, of water and the Spirit. Do you know what wayter symbolizes Don? Well, in the non-Catholic understanding.

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

A baptism of repentance, not a Christian baptism.

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)

Okay

John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

Okay. Still no proof for Catholicism.

*key
(Jn 3:5 is first put into practical practice in verse 22)

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)

The jailer asked, how must I be saved? Was he told to be baptized? No

 

[Carbon]

John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

Water baptism has nothing to do with regeneration.

Born again means Baptismal regeneration!

According to the Church of Rome, I know. I'm well aware of that.

The means of Justification, union with God and the communion of saints by the grace of Jesus Christ the mediator of the new covenant!
Mk 16:16 matt 28:19 Jn 15:4 acts 2:38-39 acts 22:16 1 cor 16:13
gal 3:26 1 pet 3:20-21

Are you interested in true regeneration and how it happens? Water baptism has nothing to do with it. Matter of fact, a person is regenerated (born again) before he even believes or goes near water for baptism.

 

[Carbon]

@donadams
Don, The very first work of divine grace which introduces a sinner into the Christian life is a holy calling. So, it is the calling that transforms unbelievers into believers, children of darkness into sons of light. It isn't difficult to show that this teaching is eminently scriptural.

According to the bible, it is God who initiates the process of salvation by calling men with such omnipotent and irresistible power that they are brought into a saving relationship with Jesus Christ.

Consider what Paul says about how he was introduced into the Christian life. Paul declares Galatians 1:15, But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, God called him through His grace. After all, isnt that what scripture says, "we are saved by grace?" (Eph 2:8)

Paul writes in Romand 1:6-7,
6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

The list goes on Do, If you would like to see more, let me know I would be happy to post them.


Accoding to Peter, Christians are people who have been called unto eternal glory in Christ - 1 Peter 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
1 Peter 2:9, But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
Don, my friend, this just keeps going. And nothing about baptism. No baptismal regeneration.
A close study of scripture makes it clear that the initial saving act of God which is termed "a holy calling" in 2 Tim 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, & Heb 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Don, I really hope you think about this.

 

[Carbon]

@donadams

This heavenly calling is always efficacious; it always results in salvation. And this is the case because, when God sends forthHis heavenly calling, He attends and accomplishes the eternal proclamation of the gospel with a calling which is an almighty and irresistible operation of the Spirit, working directly on man in the innermost being. This is an operation that changes the heart and makes man a new creation in Christ Jesus, Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2 Cor 5:17.
Don, this is a divine act of regeneration that infuses the life from above, the life in which Christ is the fountain, into their heart and so spells the spiritual regeneration of a sinner who is dead in sins and trespasses. Do you believe me? Will you believe Paul?
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Eph 2:1.

 

[Alive]

@donadams

This heavenly calling is always efficacious; it always results in salvation. And this is the case because, when God send forthe His heavenly calling, He attends and accomplishes the eternal proclamation of the gospel with a calling which is an almighty and irresistible operation of the Spirit, working directly on man in the innermost being. This is an operation that changes the heart and makes man a new creation in Christ Jesus, Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2 Cor 5:17.
Don, this is a divine act of regeneration that infuses the life from above, the life in which Christ is the fountain, into their heart and so spells the spiritual regeneration of a sinner who is dead in sins and trespasses. Do you believe me? Will yo believe Paul?
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Eph 2:1.

Well done.

 

[Carbon]

Well done.

Thank you

 

[Mr GLee]

Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”

Context beginning in Genesis.

God promised dying mankind a way back to the pleasant city of Eden used to represent the bride of Christ . .Through their offspring .

Naming the first born Cain (acquired possession) Thinking he was the promised savior. Naming the second born Abel (vanity) Revealing thier need of faith. (Christ labor of love). the unseen things of God. . Used to represent a person must be born again .

Satan the father of lies a murderer from that very beginning exposing the foundation of Paganism ."Out of sight our of mind" the fool , as in who would in their right mind would believe in a God not seen according to a written book ?. Like Cain. I know not where my bible thumping brother Abel is .Did you check the green pastures he is probably taking a Grampa nap. .

Satan kills the first born. God establishes the second born loving law

God, not giving up the born again seed of His word raised up another second born to replace Abel the prophet /martyr with the prophet Seth (appointed)

Genesis 4:25-26 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew. And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.

Having established his born again doctrine then men knowing they must be born agin began to call on their savior the secon born sed (Chrsit passed down until the birth of the Son of man, Jesus .The father revealing the first born again of many sons of God.

H20 evaporates. What it signifies. . The Holy Spirit unseen glory of the husband Christ poring our His eternal Spirt on drying mankind in jeapordy of his own Spirit life .The washing by the water of the living word and daily renewing. . baptism . Christ in us yoked with him, our burden can be lighter with a living hope beyond the grave

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

 

[1Thess521]

@donadams
still waiting
Did a "clean" Mary come from an "unclean" Anne?

@donadams
still waiting
Did a "clean" Mary come from an "unclean" Anne?

 

[1Thess521]

You made a claim : can you back it up?

Jesus was conceived pure and immaculate because Mary was pure and immaculate.

Did a "clean" Mary come from an "unclean" Anne?
still waiting

 

[donadams]

for justification?
the justified have their sins forgiven by God's mercy BECAUSE they are justified.
Sola Fide addresses how we are justified
we are justified at the very moment we have faith.

Faith alone?

1 Peter 5:5
Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Phil 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

 

[1Thess521]

Faith alone?


James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Cyril of Alexandria, a native Greek speaker, on the issue of the meaning of the term edikaiōthē (translated “justified” in Ancient Christian Commentary on the Scripture, New Testament VI), clearly explains that he believes that it refers to vindication, and not literal justification:

Clement, who writes at a time contemporaneous enough with James’ to have a thorough understanding of edikaiōthē and the doctrine of the Apostles that is surrounding it. Citing James 2:23, and likely having the whole section in mind when exegeting Hebrews 11, he writes that Abraham proved his faithfulness in the performance faithful acts:
Not only does Clement endorse the view that Abraham was vindicated by his sacrifice of Isaac, as he was found faithful in our sight because of it, he linguistically uses the term “justified” to mean “vindicated” elsewhere in the letter.

Cyprian of Carthage writes:
“men are tried by God for this purpose, that they may be proved.”

A later Latin writer, Hilary of Poitiers,
Abraham had proved, by the sacrifice of his son,


"the Greek language had no other word that meant vindication in the present tense"

James 2:21: Works vindicate (edikaiōthē) our faith before all

What does James mean that Abraham was justified by works? Can we be justified multiple times, once by faith and other times by works? Is James contradicting Paul? We answer these questions in the f…

orthodoxchristiantheology.com

 

[1Thess521]

Faith alone?

James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

You Can Understand The Bible: A Practical And Illuminating Guide To Each Book In The Bible
By Peter Kreeft (Catholic author) Pages 291-292
http://www.amazon.com/You-Can-Understand-The-Bible/dp/1586170457#reader_1586170457
-----------------
quoting
"Actually, James' point is very clear and simple, it is not a contrast between faith and works but between a real faith, a faith that works, and a fake faith, one that does not. "Show me your faith apart from your works, and by my works will show you my faith."
We do not see a living plant's roots, only its fruits. Others cannot see your faith, for it is invisible.
They can see only your actions, which show your faith as a tulip flower shows you that a tulip bulb has taken root The apparent contradiction between James, who says that we, like Abraham, are justified by works (2: 21), and Paul, who says that we, like Abraham, are justified by faith (Rom 4), is explained by looking at the context.

Paul's context is the relationship between the believer and God,
while James' context is the relationship between the believer and his neighbor.
God sees your faith; your neighbor sees your works. Faith justifies us before God; works justify us before our neighbors."

A further explanation is that James means by “faith” only intellectual belief. “You believe that God is one; you do well.
end quote
----------------
from Jimmy Akin (lead apologetics and author from Catholic.com) discussing Trent.
"Thus the position being condemned is the idea that we are justified by intellectual assent alone (as per James 2).
-----------

No Sola Fide advocate claims we are save by only mental assent or only intellectual belief.
(aka the faith of demons)

 

[1Thess521]

you made a claim
explain it

Jesus was conceived pure and immaculate because Mary was pure and immaculate.

Did a "clean" Mary come from an "unclean" Anne?
still waiting

 

[prism]

When the topic comes to Mary, I can't help but think of this verse ...

John 14:6 NKJV
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

I suppose now we have to go through Mary to get to Jesus so we can go to the Father, thus making Jesus a liar.

 

[donadams]

God came to is thru Mary

Our salvation is in Mary!

 

[donadams]

God came to is thru Mary

Our salvation is in Mary!

 

[1Thess521]

God came to is thru Mary

Our salvation is in Mary!

you are conflating a temporary physical location with a cause of salivation.
you can as well say our salvation is Samaria: as Jesus went thru there.

 

[1Thess521]

Jesus was conceived pure and immaculate because Mary was pure and immaculate.

@donadams
still waiting
Did a "clean" Mary come from an "unclean" Anne?