Marian Dogmas

[Arial]

Graven images are worshipped as a god

Images are not!

Any image that is prayed to, either as God or as a mediator between the person and Jesus or the person and God, is being worshiped. It tis actually idolatry when a fallible human is referred to as Holy Father.

Images are not forbidden, such as the cherubim on the ark of the covenant ex 25:18 and the bronze serpent num 21:9 and Jn 3:14 are not forbidden but even commanded!

And scripture says the temple had statuary!

The old order has passed away. But those things were commanded by God, he declared what they were and what they were for. They were not worshiped, only the high priest had access to the Holy of Holies. The old has passed away, behold the new has come.

The pagans who worshiped many gods and were not gods, and built images of them, and whom rebellious Israel followed after-----were worshiping something OTHER than the one true God. So the commandment to have no other gods is just that--don't worship or trust something other than God.

Is a crucifix a graven image?

IMO when it has the risen Christ still hanging on the cross, it is. When it is kissed in worship, or clung to as security and safety, it is.

 

[Arial]

“Justification”

((( Baptism confers the grace of justification!!! )))

The majority of Protestantism does not believe this and those that do need to reexamine the position in the light of the whole counsel of God.

Read carefully and prayerfully please

Dogma / De Fide or “thee faith” (found 31 times in the New Testament) eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

Truths revealed by Christ, taught by His apostolic church! (Matt 28:19)
(The rule of faith)

The faith that binds all Christians! Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18

Christ and His church are one and teach one truth faith! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 / Jn 8:12 - Matt 5:14
Matt 17:5 - acts 3:22 Matt 18:18
Truth: Jn 14:6 - 1 Tim 3:15

(Most people who oppose catholic dogma actually believe most dogma’s Example: #12 there is only one God)

“Justification”

((( Baptism confers the grace of justification!!! )))


168. All the Sacraments of the New Covenant were instituted by Jesus Christ.
169. There are Seven Sacraments of the New Law.
170. The Sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for the salvation of mankind.
171. For the valid dispensing of the Sacraments it is necessary that the minister accomplish the
Sacramental Sign in the proper manner.
172. The minister must further have the intention at least of doing what the Church does.
173. In the case of adult recipients moral worthiness is necessary for the worthy or fruitful
reception of the Sacraments.
174. Baptism is a true Sacrament instituted by Jesus Christ.
175. The materia remota of the Sacrament of Baptism is true and natural water.
176. Baptism confers the grace of justification.
177. Baptism effects the remission of all punishments of sin, both the eternal and the temporal.
178. Even if it be unworthily received, valid Baptism imprints on the soul of the recipient an
indelible spiritual mark, the Baptismal Character, and for this reason, the Sacrament cannot
be repeated.
179. Baptism by water (Baptismus fluminis) is, since the promulgation of the Gospel, necessary
for all men without exception, for salvation.
180. Baptism can be validly administered by anyone.
181. Baptism can be received by any person in the wayfaring state who is not already baptised.
182. The Baptism of young children is valid and licit.

“grace of God”

109. There is a supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul, which precedes the free act of the will.
110. There is a supernatural influence of God in the faculties of the soul which coincides in time with man’s free act of will.
111. For every salutary act internal supernatural grace of God (gratia elevans) is absolutely necessary.
112. Internal supernatural grace is absolutely necessary for the beginning of faith and of salvation.
113. Without the special help of God the justified cannot persevere to the end in justification.
114. The justified person is not able for his whole life long to avoid all sins, even venial sins,
without the special privilege of the grace of God.
115. Even in the fallen state, man can, by his natural intellectual power, know religious and moral
truths.
116. For the performance of a morally good action Sanctifying Grace is not required.
117. In the state of fallen nature it is morally impossible for man without Supernatural Revelation,
to know easily, with absolute certainty and without admixture of error, all religious and
moral truths of the natural order.
118. Grace cannot be merited by natural works either de condigno or de congruo.
119. God gives all the just sufficient grace (gratia proxime vel remote sufficiens) for the
observation of the Divine Commandments.

122. The Human Will remains free under the influence of efficacious grace, which is not
irresistible.
123. There is a grace which is truly sufficient and yet remains inefficacious (gratia vere et mere
sufficiens).
124. The sinner can and must prepare himself by the help of actual grace for the reception of the
grace by which he is justified.
125. The justification of an adult is not possible without Faith.
126. Besides faith, further acts of disposition must be present.
127. Sanctifying grace sanctifies the soul.
128. Sanctifying grace makes the just man a friend of God.
129. Sanctifying grace makes the just man a child of God and gives him a claim to the inheritance
of Heaven.
130. The three Divine or Theological Virtues of Faith, Hope and Charity are infused with
Sanctifying grace.
131. Without special Divine Revelation no one can know with the certainty of faith, if he be in the
state of grace.
132. The degree of justifying grace is not identical in all the just.
133. Grace can be increased by good works.
134. The grace by which we are justified may be lost, and is lost by every grievous [mortal,
serious] sin.
135. By his good works the justified man really acquires a claim to supernatural reward from
God.
136. A just man merits for himself through each good work an increase of sanctifying grace,
eternal life (if he dies in a state of grace) and an increase of heavenly glory.

Thks

Traditional reformation teaching does not believe this.

 

[donadams]

Ok, well at least you are saying that Mary's mother was not a virgin. Thanks for at least that. Now how you figure she was conceived without sin is still puzzling.

How was she conceived without sin?
By the almighty power of God!
Lk 1:49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.

Gen 3:15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.
(Enmities total war, none of satan’s works found in Her immaculate purity)

Lk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, Mary full of Grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
(Immaculate purity, full of grace, blessed)

Song of Solomon 4:1 Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves' eyes within thy locks: thy hair is as a flock of goats, that appear from mount Gilead.

Rev 12:1 a woman clothed with the sun.
(Immaculate purity)


2 cron 2:6 But who is able to build him an house, seeing the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain him? who am I then, that I should build him an house, save only to burn sacrifice before him?

Jesus was conceived pure and immaculate because Mary was pure and immaculate. As Job said “Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? There is not one.” (Job 14:4).

Presence of God produces holiness!

Holiness befits thy house!

Knowing the holiness of God we cannot use the ark of the covenant for a bbq dinner or the holy of holies for a rock and roll dance, and why not?

Cos they are consecrated to God in holiness and must be pure and only for God’s purpose and cannot be used for an ordinary purpose without it being a sacrilege!

These are types of Mary most holy!

Mary is consecrated to God alone!
A vow of perpetual virginity!


Scripture says: “holiness befits thy house, O Lord” (Ps 93:5). Mary was Jesus’ “house” for 9 months so if holiness befits God’s house would not Mary be holy also? Just like the Ark and the Tabernacle she was set apart and consecrated to the Lord., the holy dwelling of God.

1 cor 3:17 …..for the temple of God is holy….. Mary is the temple, house, dwelling of God, God had need of Her to become man!

 

[Mr GLee]

((( Baptism confers the grace of justification!!! )))

How much grace? The fullness as to the whole cost of salvation? Or a unknown remnant save a Queen mother of heaven and others must continue suffer and wonder, wonder, wonder

I would suggest be careful how we believe who it is we say we believe. Why do despite to the fulness of Christ's grace it teaches us how to say no to ungodliness

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

 

[donadams]

If God Almighty in the flesh needed Mary to be pure and immaculate in order for him to be pure and immaculate in the flesh, how in the world could she possibly be pure and immaculate without her mother being pure and immaculate? "Turtles all the way down"

God’s intervention

Ineffabilis Deus
The Immaculate Conception
Pope Pius IX - 1854

“We declare, pronounce, and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful.”

 

[donadams]

Are you disregrading your Pope?

Do you consider these Churches Capital C Catholic?

• Ephesus: The church that had abandoned its first love for Christ (Revelation 2:4).
• Pergamum: The church that needed to repent of sin (Revelation 2:16).
• Thyatira: The church whose false prophetess was leading people astray (Revelation 2:20).
• Sardis: The sleeping church that needed to wake up (Revelation 3:2).
• Laodicea: The church with lukewarm faith (Revelation 3:16).

Imagine if these Churches had the backing of the largest military on earth


I have a concordance also

You believe the five false sola’s but you don’t believe the one true sola!

Only one true church founded by Christ on Peter!

Christ and His church are one!
((Inseparable authority & unity))
Acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 eph 5:32 Isa 53:5 Jn 15:4-5 eph 5:24 Jn 20:21-23

One shepherd and one fold! Jn 10:16

Only Christ has authority to establish the church! Matt 16:18-19
One church! Jn 10:16 All others are sects “full of errors” “the tradition of men”! The new covenant Church is the eternal city of God! Household of faith! The pillar and ground of TRUTH! 1 Tim 3:15 Founded by Christ alone! Matt 16:18 on Peter and the apostles! Eph 2:20 Lk 22:29

The 30,000 sects (the tradition of men) having no authority at all! And holding and teaching contrary and new doctrines that oppose the Christian faith that was revealed by Christ and taught by holy mother church! Matt 28:19 acts 16:17


The church was founded and existed and exercised authority in teaching, governance, and sanctifying souls before the New Testament was written!

The church does not require the New Testament scriptures to know the truth!

The church wrote the scripture!

The church was taught by Christ in person for three years!

And commanded by Christ to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19

For 30 plus years before the apostles wrote scripture
By the inspiration of the Holy Ghost they taught and preached and settle matters of doctrine!

Acts 8:12 & 25 & 35
Acts 13:5
1 pet 1:25

 

[1Thess521]

No you quoted anti-pope francis

ohhh: you are not qualified to say that

 

[Arial]

According to Cardinal Newman
he said ....quoting....
“I am not proving these doctrines to you, my brethren; the evidence of them lies in the declaration of the Church.
The Church is the oracle of religious truth, and dispenses what the apostles committed to her in every time and place.
We must take her word without proof...."
end quote

Since by Church here is meant the Catholic church,----which gave "her" the authority so high we are to take her word(meaning her hierarchy) without proof? That is the very definition of trusting and putting our faith in men and the traditions of men.

I will do what God himself tells me to do in his word. "Trust not in men or the traditions of men. trust God.

 

[makesends]

How was she conceived without sin?
By the almighty power of God!

There's no need to "thunder" at me —the vehemence doesn't cover the weakness of the logic!

So explain, then: How can it be that Christ was not conceived without sin by the Almighty Power of God?

 

[makesends]

God’s intervention

Ineffabilis Deus
The Immaculate Conception
Pope Pius IX - 1854

“We declare, pronounce, and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful.”

Then why did she call him her saviour? Why, if she is without sin, did she need saved?

 

[1Thess521]

I’ll resolve the reformation for you!

“There was no reformation”!

Where did scripture your only authority authorize a reformation?

Dear Strawman:
Scripture is not my only authority

 

[1Thess521]

Yes it does!

If anyone says you can be justified by faith alone let him be accursed! Anathema

If you accept “faith alone” you reject Jesus Christ and His eternal words!

If you accept “faith alone” you reject scripture the inspired “God breathed” word of God!

If you accept “faith alone” You reject the good news of the gospel!

Mk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved…

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 pet 3:21 …baptism doth also now save us…

nope:
I don't think you have any clue what the doctrines called Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura are

 

[Arial]

The immaculate conception is a catholic doctrine, does the catholic church have the authority to define it?

The immaculate conception----meaning Mary conceived even though she was a virgin----is a doctrine of Christianity given within the pages of the Bible---therefore given by God himself. It is a universal doctrine of true Christianity. You do not mean the catholic church, you mean the Catholic religion (a denomination). The Catholic denomination ( and no other denomination) has authority to give it an indisputable interpretation. Understanding the Scriptures is a gift given to his people who God has given to Jesus by grace and through faith, through the indwelling Holy Spirit. (Come to think of it and as an aside, I don't think you have once mentioned the Holy Spirit and his relationship with the believer and the work that he does in them.)

Does that rule out misinterpretations? Of course not. The point is, interpretive authority does not rest with any person, group of persons, denomination, or human structure. Whether things are interpreted right or wrong is often a matter of growth, but no interpretation can be correct if it contradicts other portions of Scripture. Who God redeems is utterly within the wheelhouse of God.

 

[donadams]

Any image that is prayed to, either as God or as a mediator between the person and Jesus or the person and God, is being worshiped. It tis actually idolatry when a fallible human is referred to as Holy Father.

The old order has passed away. But those things were commanded by God, he declared what they were and what they were for. They were not worshiped, only the high priest had access to the Holy of Holies. The old has passed away, behold the new has come.

The pagans who worshiped many gods and were not gods, and built images of them, and whom rebellious Israel followed after-----were worshiping something OTHER than the one true God. So the commandment to have no other gods is just that--don't worship or trust something other than God.

IMO when it has the risen Christ still hanging on the cross, it is. When it is kissed in worship, or clung to as security and safety, it is.

Not true

Gal 3:1
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

1 cor 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

 

[Arial]

Why so hostile, we not enemies, only have differences of belief and understanding

There was nothing hostile about my post and no reason to present it as being so.

All Christians are to be of one mind, one heart, one spirit:

That does not mean they all have to believe exactly the same thing about everything and it certainly does not mean they have to believe everything the Catholic denomination says they have to believe.

 

[donadams]

Any image that is prayed to, either as God or as a mediator between the person and Jesus or the person and God, is being worshiped. It tis actually idolatry when a fallible human is referred to as Holy Father.

The old order has passed away. But those things were commanded by God, he declared what they were and what they were for. They were not worshiped, only the high priest had access to the Holy of Holies. The old has passed away, behold the new has come.

The pagans who worshiped many gods and were not gods, and built images of them, and whom rebellious Israel followed after-----were worshiping something OTHER than the one true God. So the commandment to have no other gods is just that--don't worship or trust something other than God.

IMO when it has the risen Christ still hanging on the cross, it is. When it is kissed in worship, or clung to as security and safety, it is.

Bible says father many times

1 Corinthians 4:15
For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, (apostles) who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, (apostles) and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

Obedience of the faithful Christians or spiritual anarchy of the fundamentalists!

 

[Arial]

please dont quote anything from the vatican after Pius 12 died in 1958 or from the Vatican 2 sect or anti-popes and catholic modernist answers especially jimmy akin your breakin my heart!

Please don't tell posters what they are not allowed to do.

 

[Arial]

Not a work of the one true church!


Apostolic Council of Trent by the authority of Jesus Christ! Matt 16:18-19

Justification:

Canon 1. If anyone says that man can be justified before God by his own works, whether done by his own natural powers or through the teaching of the law, without divine grace through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema.

Canon 2. If anyone says that divine grace through Christ Jesus is given for this only, that man may be able more easily to live justly and to merit eternal life, as if by free will without grace he is able to do both, though with hardship and difficulty, let him be anathema.

Canon 3. If anyone says that without the predisposing inspiration of the Holy Ghost and without His help, man can believe, hope, love or be repentant as he ought, so that the grace of justification may be bestowed upon him, let him be anathema.

Canon 4. If anyone says that man's free will moved and aroused by God, by assenting to God's call and action, in no way cooperates toward disposing and preparing itself to obtain the grace of justification, that it cannot refuse its assent if it wishes, but that, as something inanimate, it does nothing whatever and is merely passive, let him be anathema.

Canon 5. If anyone says that after the sin of Adam man's free will was lost and destroyed, or that it is a thing only in name, indeed a name without a reality, a fiction introduced into the Church by Satan, let him be anathema.

Canon 6. If anyone says that it is not in man's power to make his ways evil, but that the works that are evil as well as those that are good God produces, not permissively only but also propria et per se, so that the treason of Judas is no less His own proper work than the vocation of St. Paul, let him be anathema.

Canon 7. If anyone says that all works done before justification, in whatever manner they may be done, are truly sins, or merit the hatred of God; that the more earnestly one strives to dispose himself for grace, the more grievously he sins, let him be anathema.

Canon 8. If anyone says that the fear of hell, whereby, by grieving for sins, we flee to the mercy of God or abstain from sinning, is a sin or makes sinners worse, let him be anathema.

Canon 9. If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification, and that it is not in any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema.

Canon 10. If anyone says that men are justified without the justice of Christ, whereby He merited for us, or by that justice are formally just, let him be anathema.

Canon 11. If anyone says that men are justified either by the sole imputation of the justice of Christ or by the sole remission of sins, to the exclusion of the grace and the charity which is poured forth in their hearts by the Holy Ghost, and remains in them, or also that the grace by which we are justified is only the good will of God, let him be anathema.

Canon 12. If anyone says that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in divine mercy, which remits sins for Christ's sake, or that it is this confidence alone that justifies us, let him be anathema.

Canon 13. If anyone says that in order to obtain the remission of sins it is necessary for every man to believe with certainty and without any hesitation arising from his own weakness and indisposition that his sins are forgiven him, let him be anathema.

Canon 14. If anyone says that man is absolved from his sins and justified because he firmly believes that he is absolved and justified, or that no one is truly justified except him who believes himself justified, and that by this faith alone absolution and justification are effected, let him be anathema.

Canon 15. If anyone says that a man who is born again and justified is bound ex fide to believe that he is certainly in the number of the predestined, let him be anathema.

Canon 16. If anyone says that he will for certain, with an absolute and infallible certainty, have that great gift of perseverance even to the end, unless he shall have learned this by a special revelation, let him be anathema.

Canon 17. If anyone says that the grace of justification is shared by those only who are predestined to life, but that all others who are called are called indeed but receive not grace, as if they are by divine power predestined to evil, let him be anathema.

Canon 18. If anyone says that the commandments of God are, even for one that is justified and constituted in grace, impossible to observe, let him be anathema.

Canon 24. If anyone says that justice received is not preserved and also not increased before God through good works, but that those works are merely fruits and signs of justification obtained, not the cause of its increase, let him be anathema.

Canon 30. If anyone say that after the reception of the grace of justification the guilt is so remitted and the debt of eternal punishment so blotted out ... that no debt of temporal punishment remains to be discharged ... before the gates of heaven can be opened, let him be anathema.

Don,

Please stop posting these walls of Catholic dogma with no discussion on any of it. Pick a point and discuss it. I hope I do not have to tell you that again.

 

[donadams]

The majority of Protestantism does not believe this and those that do need to reexamine the position in the light of the whole counsel of God.

Traditional reformation teaching does not believe this.

Like Mk 16:16 or acts 22:16

Mk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Do you believe this?

 

[Arial]

Bible says father many times

However I did not say father. My statement was about calling a human man the Holy Father.