Marian Dogmas

[donadams]

Please show scripture for #2 in bold.

The title “the immaculate conception”?

The titles of Trinity, and rapture etc are also not in scripture

The doctrine is

Please show scripture for #2 in bold.

you want me to repeat here

Its in post 184 to 186

God is Holy!

Anything consecrated to His service or purpose must be holy, pure, and only for His service or purpose!

Thks

 

[1Thess521]

We do not agree on the doctrine of justification, never! The sola’s are heresy condemned by the authority of Christ in holy apostolic council, you don’t believe the bible much less justification!

If anyone says a man mat be justified by “faith alone” let him be anathema!

from Jimmy Akin (lead apologeticist and author from Catholic.com)
quoting

" Catholics do not have to condemn the formula of justification sola fide (by faith alone), provided this phrase is properly understood.​

​

if the term “faith” is being used to refer to faith formed by charity then the Catholic does not have to condemn the idea of justification by faith alone. In fact, in traditional works of Catholic theology, one regularly encounters the statement that formed faith is justifying faith.​

If one has formed faith, one is justified. Period.​

​

Protestant idea of faith = Catholic idea of faith + Catholic idea of hope + Catholic idea of charity"​

"Thus the position being condemned is the idea that we are justified by intellectual assent alone (as per James 2).​

​

We might rephrase the canon:​

“If anyone says that the sinner is justified by intellectual assent alone, so as to understand that nothing besides intellectual assent is required to cooperate in the attainment of the grace of justification . . . let him be anathema.”​

​

"So Trent does not condemn the (better) Protestant understanding of faith alone.​

In fact, the canon allows the formula to be used so long as it is not used so as to understand that nothing besides intellectual assent is required.​

The canon only condemns “sola fide” if it is used “so as to understand that nothing else [besides intellectual assent] is required” to attain justification.​

end quotes
jimmyakin.com/library/justification-by-faith-alone

...

 

[donadams]

Do the healthy need medicine?

I think that the intentions of Martin Luther were not mistaken. He was a reformer. Perhaps some methods were not correct. But in that time, if we read the story of the Pastor, a German Lutheran who then converted when he saw reality – he became Catholic – in that time, the Church was not exactly a model to imitate. There was corruption in the Church, there was worldliness, attachment to money, to power…and this he protested. Then he was intelligent and took some steps forward justifying, and because he did this. And today Lutherans and Catholics, Protestants, all of us agree on the doctrine of justification. On this point, which is very important, he did not err. He made a medicine for the Church…
-Pope Francis

Are taking the church’s word?

According to Cardinal Newman
he said ....quoting....
“I am not proving these doctrines to you, my brethren; the evidence of them lies in the declaration of the Church.
The Church is the oracle of religious truth, and dispenses what the apostles committed to her in every time and place.
We must take her word without proof...."
end quote

Cos Christ and His church are union!

(Unity)

Isa 53:5
Matt 25:40
Jn 15:4-5
Acts 9:4
Eph 5:24
Eph 5:32
Phil 4:13

Thks

 

[1Thess521]

Are taking the church’s word?

Are you disregrading your Pope?

According to Cardinal Newman
he said ....quoting....
“I am not proving these doctrines to you, my brethren; the evidence of them lies in the declaration of the Church.
The Church is the oracle of religious truth, and dispenses what the apostles committed to her in every time and place.
We must take her word without proof...."
end quote

Cos Christ and His church are union!

Do you consider these Churches Capital C Catholic?

• Ephesus: The church that had abandoned its first love for Christ (Revelation 2:4).
• Pergamum: The church that needed to repent of sin (Revelation 2:16).
• Thyatira: The church whose false prophetess was leading people astray (Revelation 2:20).
• Sardis: The sleeping church that needed to wake up (Revelation 3:2).
• Laodicea: The church with lukewarm faith (Revelation 3:16).

Imagine if these Churches had the backing of the largest military on earth

(Unity)

Isa 53:5
Matt 25:40
Jn 15:4-5
Acts 9:4
Eph 5:24
Eph 5:32
Phil 4:13

Thks

I have a concordance also

 

[Carbon]

Are you disregrading your Pope?

I do not believe Don is heavily into the pope.

 

[Arial]

Same in your understanding

That is not true because you say otherwise. The Catholic dogma says otherwise.

Try to see it the way i defined it or what do you want to call Mary being conceived without sin?

She was not conceived without sin. Show me from SCRIPTURE where she was conceived without sin.

Please stop confusing it the perpetual virginity and the conception of Mary without sin are two different doctrines

I am not confusing them. I am speaking of both things. As are you.

Eve was a virgin in the garden and it is true adam and ever were created sinless by God, eve did not remain a virgin

Do you consider that a sin or are you just making the statement?

How was she conceived without sin?
By the almighty power of God!
Lk 1:49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.

How is that saying she was conceived without sin? You really ought to change that word to what you mean (or what I think you mean). Are you claiming here, as you have before, that Mary was born without original sin?

Never related loss of virginity to sin,

Then stop wording things in a way that makes it sound like that is what you are doing.

Matthew 19:29
And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

Which do you want accusations or an understanding

??????? These utterly apropos of nothing scripture quotes have got to go.

 

[makesends]

Sorry for the confusion

When I said “Christ” I was referring to the virgin birth

Lk 1:49 “things” refer to both

The “things” plural are the immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus by the Holy Spirit!

Never said anything about dna

Mary was not born of a virgin but by her natural parents

Mary was conceived without sin and was sinless to be the mother of God!

Thks

Ok, well at least you are saying that Mary's mother was not a virgin. Thanks for at least that. Now how you figure she was conceived without sin is still puzzling.

 

[makesends]

Jesus was conceived pure and immaculate because Mary was pure and immaculate.

If God Almighty in the flesh needed Mary to be pure and immaculate in order for him to be pure and immaculate in the flesh, how in the world could she possibly be pure and immaculate without her mother being pure and immaculate? "Turtles all the way down"

 

[donadams]

We can't come to an agreement. I understand your definitions of those terms perfectly and I am pretty sure you understand mine. In any case I gave my definitions. The question is, which one is actually biblical---yours or mine? The only place we can find a definitive answer to that is from the Bible itself. So does the Bible actually say what you say using your definitions, or is it your religion that is defining those terms?

I am not confusing anything and it is not doctrines that are being discussed, it is definitions of words that are defining the doctrines put forth. I both gave my definition and understanding of two things---keeping those two things separate.

This is how the conversation went:


Two things. Immaculate conception and what it is. Original sin and what it is. No confusing of the two. Just clarifying two incorrect definitions you made.

Why so hostile, we not enemies, only have differences of belief and understanding

All Christians are to be of one mind, one heart, one spirit:

Acts 2:46
Romans 12:16
Romans 15:6
2 cor 13:11
Eph 4:1
Phil 1:27
Phil 2:2
1 Peter 3:8


Philippians 1:27
Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

Agree?

 

[donadams]

We were not discussing that---that is something we both agree on.

I have already informed you that the immaculate conception of Mary preserved her from original sin on the merits of Christ is not what the immaculate conception did. It preserved Jesus from original sin. Mary was already born in original sin.

At least twice you have used the scripture of Mary being blessed as proof of her perpetual virginity.

Note the parenthetical statement in my post that states this is exactly what the Catholics claim. It is no different than a Unitarian claiming they worship Jesus, because we are told to, and at the same time they do not worship him as God.

My bed is not a statue of a woman. If the intent in Mary veneration and praying to her is not worship---why the graven image? It at the very least, puts a dead human as a mediator between you and the mediator. Which is also idolatry.

The immaculate conception is a catholic doctrine, does the catholic church have the authority to define it?

 

[donadams]

We were not discussing that---that is something we both agree on.

I have already informed you that the immaculate conception of Mary preserved her from original sin on the merits of Christ is not what the immaculate conception did. It preserved Jesus from original sin. Mary was already born in original sin.

At least twice you have used the scripture of Mary being blessed as proof of her perpetual virginity.

Note the parenthetical statement in my post that states this is exactly what the Catholics claim. It is no different than a Unitarian claiming they worship Jesus, because we are told to, and at the same time they do not worship him as God.

My bed is not a statue of a woman. If the intent in Mary veneration and praying to her is not worship---why the graven image? It at the very least, puts a dead human as a mediator between you and the mediator. Which is also idolatry.

Graven images are worshipped as a god

Images are not!

the first commandment forbids graven images or the worship of any save God Alone!

Images are not forbidden, such as the cherubim on the ark of the covenant ex 25:18 and the bronze serpent num 21:9 and Jn 3:14 are not forbidden but even commanded!

And scripture says the temple had statuary!

Zachariah 11:13 And the Lord said to me: Cast it to the statuary, a handsome price, that I was prized at by them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and I cast them into the house of the Lord to the statuary.

Is a crucifix a graven image?

Thks

 

[donadams]

i quoted a Pope

No you quoted anti-pope francis

 

[donadams]

"But whatever in the justified precedes or follows
the free gift of faith
is neither the basis of justification
nor merits it."
-The Vatican
Thanks Vatican!!!
---------------
"...Luther's phrase: "faith alone" is true, if it is not opposed to faith in charity, in love
Pope Benedict XVI

Note: Faith alone is not opposed to faith in charity, in love
therefore; Faith alone is true
thanks for that Pope B!!
------------
And today Lutherans and Catholics, Protestants, all of us agree on the doctrine of justification. On this point, which is very important, he<Luther> did not err. He made a medicine for the Church…

Thanks Pope F
---
-from faithful, knowledgeable, Church-loving, Catholic Author Peter Kreeft
quote
"How do I resolve the Reformation?
Is it faith alone that justifies, or is it faith and works?
Very simple. No tricks.
On this issue I believe Luther was simply right; and this issue is absolutely crucial.
As a Catholic I feel guilt for the tragedy of Christian disunity because the church in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries was failing to preach the gospel.

Thanks Peter K
-----------------
from the lead apologeticist at Cathoic.com

" Catholics do not have to condemn the formula of justification sola fide (by faith alone), provided this phrase is properly understood.
if the term “faith” is being used to refer to faith formed by charity then the Catholic does not have to condemn the idea of justification by faith alone. In fact, in traditional works of Catholic theology, one regularly encounters the statement that formed faith is justifying faith.
If one has formed faith, one is justified. Period.
-Jimmy Akin
thanks Jimmy

please dont quote anything from the vatican after Pius 12 died in 1958 or from the Vatican 2 sect or anti-popes and catholic modernist answers especially jimmy akin your breakin my heart!

 

[donadams]

"But whatever in the justified precedes or follows
the free gift of faith
is neither the basis of justification
nor merits it."
-The Vatican
Thanks Vatican!!!
---------------
"...Luther's phrase: "faith alone" is true, if it is not opposed to faith in charity, in love
Pope Benedict XVI

Note: Faith alone is not opposed to faith in charity, in love
therefore; Faith alone is true
thanks for that Pope B!!
------------
And today Lutherans and Catholics, Protestants, all of us agree on the doctrine of justification. On this point, which is very important, he<Luther> did not err. He made a medicine for the Church…

Thanks Pope F
---
-from faithful, knowledgeable, Church-loving, Catholic Author Peter Kreeft
quote
"How do I resolve the Reformation?
Is it faith alone that justifies, or is it faith and works?
Very simple. No tricks.
On this issue I believe Luther was simply right; and this issue is absolutely crucial.
As a Catholic I feel guilt for the tragedy of Christian disunity because the church in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries was failing to preach the gospel.

Thanks Peter K
-----------------
from the lead apologeticist at Cathoic.com

" Catholics do not have to condemn the formula of justification sola fide (by faith alone), provided this phrase is properly understood.
if the term “faith” is being used to refer to faith formed by charity then the Catholic does not have to condemn the idea of justification by faith alone. In fact, in traditional works of Catholic theology, one regularly encounters the statement that formed faith is justifying faith.
If one has formed faith, one is justified. Period.
-Jimmy Akin
thanks Jimmy

I’ll resolve the reformation for you!

“There was no reformation”!

Where did scripture your only authority authorize a reformation?

It was a revolt and rejection of Christ, His one true church, His revealed truth, and His sent apostles!

Pride, presumption, and arrogance based on a private judgement of scripture making ME and only ME the sole arbiter of TRUTH!

I am the way, the truth, and the Life!

Not Jesus Christ!

These are not the virtues of Christ
Meek and humble of heart!
I come to do thy will!
Thy will be done in subjection and obedience!

Thats the life of a Christian!

Satan was the first Protestant in rebellion against God and His church duping foolish men to ve in cahoots with him!

Saul the fundamentalist tyrant full of pride thought he was doing the will of God and acting in righteousness until the blinding light of Christ appeared!

He was persecuting the church and Christ said why persecute me!

Christ and His church are one!
And the church is the eternal city of God, the light (truth) of the world, the pillar and foundation of TRUTH!

Thanks

 

[donadams]

Christ is the light! (Truth)
Jn 8:12

The church he founded is also the light as an extension and command of Christ! Matt 5:14

Christ is the teacher!
Heb 1:2

The church He founded is also our teacher as an extension and command of Christ! Matt 18:17

Christ is the truth!
Jn 14:6

The church He founded is also the pillar of truth as an extension and command of Christ! 1 tim 3:15

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
Jn 17:22 / rom 2:10 / 1 pet 1:7 Christ shares His glory with His saints!
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
Must hear church Matt 18:18
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15

The TWO EDGE SWORD!
To proclaim the truth! Matt 28:19
To condemn error! 1 cor 16:22

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 Jn 15:1 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

 

[donadams]

"But whatever in the justified precedes or follows
the free gift of faith
is neither the basis of justification
nor merits it."
-The Vatican
Thanks Vatican!!!
---------------
"...Luther's phrase: "faith alone" is true, if it is not opposed to faith in charity, in love
Pope Benedict XVI

Note: Faith alone is not opposed to faith in charity, in love
therefore; Faith alone is true
thanks for that Pope B!!
------------
And today Lutherans and Catholics, Protestants, all of us agree on the doctrine of justification. On this point, which is very important, he<Luther> did not err. He made a medicine for the Church…

Thanks Pope F
---
-from faithful, knowledgeable, Church-loving, Catholic Author Peter Kreeft
quote
"How do I resolve the Reformation?
Is it faith alone that justifies, or is it faith and works?
Very simple. No tricks.
On this issue I believe Luther was simply right; and this issue is absolutely crucial.
As a Catholic I feel guilt for the tragedy of Christian disunity because the church in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries was failing to preach the gospel.

Thanks Peter K
-----------------
from the lead apologeticist at Cathoic.com

" Catholics do not have to condemn the formula of justification sola fide (by faith alone), provided this phrase is properly understood.
if the term “faith” is being used to refer to faith formed by charity then the Catholic does not have to condemn the idea of justification by faith alone. In fact, in traditional works of Catholic theology, one regularly encounters the statement that formed faith is justifying faith.
If one has formed faith, one is justified. Period.
-Jimmy Akin
thanks Jimmy

Not a work of the one true church!


Apostolic Council of Trent by the authority of Jesus Christ! Matt 16:18-19

Justification:

Canon 1. If anyone says that man can be justified before God by his own works, whether done by his own natural powers or through the teaching of the law, without divine grace through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema.

Canon 2. If anyone says that divine grace through Christ Jesus is given for this only, that man may be able more easily to live justly and to merit eternal life, as if by free will without grace he is able to do both, though with hardship and difficulty, let him be anathema.

Canon 3. If anyone says that without the predisposing inspiration of the Holy Ghost and without His help, man can believe, hope, love or be repentant as he ought, so that the grace of justification may be bestowed upon him, let him be anathema.

Canon 4. If anyone says that man's free will moved and aroused by God, by assenting to God's call and action, in no way cooperates toward disposing and preparing itself to obtain the grace of justification, that it cannot refuse its assent if it wishes, but that, as something inanimate, it does nothing whatever and is merely passive, let him be anathema.

Canon 5. If anyone says that after the sin of Adam man's free will was lost and destroyed, or that it is a thing only in name, indeed a name without a reality, a fiction introduced into the Church by Satan, let him be anathema.

Canon 6. If anyone says that it is not in man's power to make his ways evil, but that the works that are evil as well as those that are good God produces, not permissively only but also propria et per se, so that the treason of Judas is no less His own proper work than the vocation of St. Paul, let him be anathema.

Canon 7. If anyone says that all works done before justification, in whatever manner they may be done, are truly sins, or merit the hatred of God; that the more earnestly one strives to dispose himself for grace, the more grievously he sins, let him be anathema.

Canon 8. If anyone says that the fear of hell, whereby, by grieving for sins, we flee to the mercy of God or abstain from sinning, is a sin or makes sinners worse, let him be anathema.

Canon 9. If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification, and that it is not in any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema.

Canon 10. If anyone says that men are justified without the justice of Christ, whereby He merited for us, or by that justice are formally just, let him be anathema.

Canon 11. If anyone says that men are justified either by the sole imputation of the justice of Christ or by the sole remission of sins, to the exclusion of the grace and the charity which is poured forth in their hearts by the Holy Ghost, and remains in them, or also that the grace by which we are justified is only the good will of God, let him be anathema.

Canon 12. If anyone says that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in divine mercy, which remits sins for Christ's sake, or that it is this confidence alone that justifies us, let him be anathema.

Canon 13. If anyone says that in order to obtain the remission of sins it is necessary for every man to believe with certainty and without any hesitation arising from his own weakness and indisposition that his sins are forgiven him, let him be anathema.

Canon 14. If anyone says that man is absolved from his sins and justified because he firmly believes that he is absolved and justified, or that no one is truly justified except him who believes himself justified, and that by this faith alone absolution and justification are effected, let him be anathema.

Canon 15. If anyone says that a man who is born again and justified is bound ex fide to believe that he is certainly in the number of the predestined, let him be anathema.

Canon 16. If anyone says that he will for certain, with an absolute and infallible certainty, have that great gift of perseverance even to the end, unless he shall have learned this by a special revelation, let him be anathema.

Canon 17. If anyone says that the grace of justification is shared by those only who are predestined to life, but that all others who are called are called indeed but receive not grace, as if they are by divine power predestined to evil, let him be anathema.

Canon 18. If anyone says that the commandments of God are, even for one that is justified and constituted in grace, impossible to observe, let him be anathema.

Canon 24. If anyone says that justice received is not preserved and also not increased before God through good works, but that those works are merely fruits and signs of justification obtained, not the cause of its increase, let him be anathema.

Canon 30. If anyone say that after the reception of the grace of justification the guilt is so remitted and the debt of eternal punishment so blotted out ... that no debt of temporal punishment remains to be discharged ... before the gates of heaven can be opened, let him be anathema.

 

[donadams]

Read carefully and prayerfully please

Dogma / De Fide or “thee faith” (found 31 times in the New Testament) eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

Truths revealed by Christ, taught by His apostolic church! (Matt 28:19)
(The rule of faith)

The faith that binds all Christians! Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18

Christ and His church are one and teach one truth faith! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 / Jn 8:12 - Matt 5:14
Matt 17:5 - acts 3:22 Matt 18:18
Truth: Jn 14:6 - 1 Tim 3:15

(Most people who oppose catholic dogma actually believe most dogma’s Example: #12 there is only one God)

“Justification”

((( Baptism confers the grace of justification!!! )))


168. All the Sacraments of the New Covenant were instituted by Jesus Christ.
169. There are Seven Sacraments of the New Law.
170. The Sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for the salvation of mankind.
171. For the valid dispensing of the Sacraments it is necessary that the minister accomplish the
Sacramental Sign in the proper manner.
172. The minister must further have the intention at least of doing what the Church does.
173. In the case of adult recipients moral worthiness is necessary for the worthy or fruitful
reception of the Sacraments.
174. Baptism is a true Sacrament instituted by Jesus Christ.
175. The materia remota of the Sacrament of Baptism is true and natural water.
176. Baptism confers the grace of justification.
177. Baptism effects the remission of all punishments of sin, both the eternal and the temporal.
178. Even if it be unworthily received, valid Baptism imprints on the soul of the recipient an
indelible spiritual mark, the Baptismal Character, and for this reason, the Sacrament cannot
be repeated.
179. Baptism by water (Baptismus fluminis) is, since the promulgation of the Gospel, necessary
for all men without exception, for salvation.
180. Baptism can be validly administered by anyone.
181. Baptism can be received by any person in the wayfaring state who is not already baptised.
182. The Baptism of young children is valid and licit.

“grace of God”

109. There is a supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul, which precedes the free act of the will.
110. There is a supernatural influence of God in the faculties of the soul which coincides in time with man’s free act of will.
111. For every salutary act internal supernatural grace of God (gratia elevans) is absolutely necessary.
112. Internal supernatural grace is absolutely necessary for the beginning of faith and of salvation.
113. Without the special help of God the justified cannot persevere to the end in justification.
114. The justified person is not able for his whole life long to avoid all sins, even venial sins,
without the special privilege of the grace of God.
115. Even in the fallen state, man can, by his natural intellectual power, know religious and moral
truths.
116. For the performance of a morally good action Sanctifying Grace is not required.
117. In the state of fallen nature it is morally impossible for man without Supernatural Revelation,
to know easily, with absolute certainty and without admixture of error, all religious and
moral truths of the natural order.
118. Grace cannot be merited by natural works either de condigno or de congruo.
119. God gives all the just sufficient grace (gratia proxime vel remote sufficiens) for the
observation of the Divine Commandments.

122. The Human Will remains free under the influence of efficacious grace, which is not
irresistible.
123. There is a grace which is truly sufficient and yet remains inefficacious (gratia vere et mere
sufficiens).
124. The sinner can and must prepare himself by the help of actual grace for the reception of the
grace by which he is justified.
125. The justification of an adult is not possible without Faith.
126. Besides faith, further acts of disposition must be present.
127. Sanctifying grace sanctifies the soul.
128. Sanctifying grace makes the just man a friend of God.
129. Sanctifying grace makes the just man a child of God and gives him a claim to the inheritance
of Heaven.
130. The three Divine or Theological Virtues of Faith, Hope and Charity are infused with
Sanctifying grace.
131. Without special Divine Revelation no one can know with the certainty of faith, if he be in the
state of grace.
132. The degree of justifying grace is not identical in all the just.
133. Grace can be increased by good works.
134. The grace by which we are justified may be lost, and is lost by every grievous [mortal,
serious] sin.
135. By his good works the justified man really acquires a claim to supernatural reward from
God.
136. A just man merits for himself through each good work an increase of sanctifying grace,
eternal life (if he dies in a state of grace) and an increase of heavenly glory.

Thks

 

[donadams]

Are you disregrading your Pope?

Do you consider these Churches Capital C Catholic?

• Ephesus: The church that had abandoned its first love for Christ (Revelation 2:4).
• Pergamum: The church that needed to repent of sin (Revelation 2:16).
• Thyatira: The church whose false prophetess was leading people astray (Revelation 2:20).
• Sardis: The sleeping church that needed to wake up (Revelation 3:2).
• Laodicea: The church with lukewarm faith (Revelation 3:16).

Imagine if these Churches had the backing of the largest military on earth


I have a concordance also

Biblegateway works for me

 

[donadams]

Are you disregrading your Pope?

Do you consider these Churches Capital C Catholic?

• Ephesus: The church that had abandoned its first love for Christ (Revelation 2:4).
• Pergamum: The church that needed to repent of sin (Revelation 2:16).
• Thyatira: The church whose false prophetess was leading people astray (Revelation 2:20).
• Sardis: The sleeping church that needed to wake up (Revelation 3:2).
• Laodicea: The church with lukewarm faith (Revelation 3:16).

Imagine if these Churches had the backing of the largest military on earth


I have a concordance also

If he is an anti-pope who opposes Catholic faith and doctrine we ignore him, we cannot judge him or make a decree against him or his validity only ignore him when he teaches contrary to the faith, and a manifest heretic is outside the church so he cannot hold office in the church we dont decree such a thing only have our doubts and remain faithful to the ancient faith of the apostles acts 2;42

 

[Mr GLee]

Graven images are worshipped as a god

Images are not!

the first commandment forbids graven images or the worship of any save God Alone!

Images are not forbidden, such as the cherubim on the ark of the covenant ex 25:18 and the bronze serpent num 21:9 and Jn 3:14 are not forbidden but even commanded!

And scripture says the temple had statuary!

Zachariah 11:13 And the Lord said to me: Cast it to the statuary, a handsome price, that I was prized at by them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and I cast them into the house of the Lord to the statuary.

Is a crucifix a graven image?

Thks

Seeing it does no make it a idol image. What does is giving it power to work to look to the unseen familiar spirts .It Is idol worship. . empowering things dead to give a vision to the living .

Images are needed to put on a face on the legion male and female gods when it comes up.

Saul the people choice a Jew in selfish pride had become jealous of the surrounding faithless Pagan nations and would not allow Christ to reign from heaven as Kings of kings .The Lord cut him off from all forms of prophecy as a dead man .

Saul sought after a mystic woman, a lying signs wonder interpreter . Saul sought after Samuel who was dead ,dead .dead . When the legion came up the witch desired a description from Saul which was then used to deceive Saul by the deceiver. He bowed down to the earth the creation as if it was Christ the Faithfull Creator . . . The Queen mother nature .

The mission of the legion is to make sola scriptura without effect so that they the highly venerable ones could lord over the faith of the non- venerable pew warmers. Tax givers

2 Kings 23:24 Moreover the workers with familiar spirits, and the wizards, and the images, and the idols, and all the abominations that were spied in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, did Josiah put away, that he might perform the words of the law which were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the Lord.

No man can serve two good teaching masters coming from one God

Josiah highest honor of a king even above David God first choice .

2 Kings 23:25 And like unto him was there no king before him, that turned to the Lord with all his heart, and with all his soul, and with all his might, according to all the law of Moses; neither after him arose there any like him.