• **Notifications**: Notifications can be dismissed by clicking on the "x" on the righthand side of the notice.
  • **New Style**: You can now change style options. Click on the paintbrush at the bottom of this page.
  • **Donations**: If the Lord leads you please consider helping with monthly costs and up keep on our Forum. Click on the Donate link In the top menu bar. Thanks
  • **New Blog section**: There is now a blog section. Check it out near the Private Debates forum or click on the Blog link in the top menu bar.
  • Welcome Visitors! Join us and be blessed while fellowshipping and celebrating our Glorious Salvation In Christ Jesus.

Jesus was never prayed to once in the Bible

Runningman said:
Asking someone on earth for something isn't prayer. Before Jesus was taken to heaven, in John 16:23-28, he said stop asking him for anything once he's with God, but rather ask the Father directly.
Click to expand...
Before Jesus was taken to heaven, in John 16:23-28, he said stop asking him for anything once he's with God, but rather ask the Father directly.

Really....

Then you admit on earth He was prayed to and asked

Which is the title of this thread that says he was not.... but he was
 
Rella said:
Before Jesus was taken to heaven, in John 16:23-28, he said stop asking him for anything once he's with God, but rather ask the Father directly.

Really....

Then you admit on earth He was prayed to and asked

Which is the title of this thread that says he was not.... but he was
Click to expand...
That's an oversimplification because we would have to make asking someone anything in the Bible a prayer and that's wrong. You're overthinking this. Just stick with the fact that Jesus only taught about praying to the Father in Matt 6:6-9 and you'll be fine.
 
Runningman said:
Jesus prayed that in eternal life we may know the Father, the only true God, and himself. So what you said isn't what Scripture says.

John 17
3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Click to expand...
Knowing someone and comprehending everything about that person are not equivalent. Surely you can see that?

Thank you for admitting that your argument is confined to that of grammatical construct.
Click to expand...
LOL!

I did no such thing. You are the one who brought up grammar.


Where does the Bible say what you are proposing then?
Click to expand...
Deut. 6:4 IKJV) Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

The word translated as "one" is "echad", which means "a group united".

Ancient Hebrew Lexicon of the Bible

AHLB#1165-C (N)

C (N) Unity: A group united are one of a group. [freq. 951]

If human analogies don't work properly then why are you using them?
Click to expand...
I used my analogy, because it gives a reasonable approximation, in simple terms.



Jesus didn't say he is the I AM. Check out Acts 3:13 and Exodus 3:14,15 where the God of Abraham is the I AM, but Jesus is only mentioned as His Son or servant. I recommend we take a look at the context of John 8 to understand how Jesus was not claiming deity. Here's a good place to start... in John 8:40, contrary to their accusations, Jesus denied being God, but rather a man who heard the truth from God.
Click to expand...

John 8:23,24
23 And He said to them, You are from beneath; I am from above. You are from this world; I am not from this world.
24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins.

John 8:58 Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came to be, I AM.

Jesus certainly, and very clearly, was proclaiming his deity.
 
David1701 said:
Jesus certainly, and very clearly, was proclaiming his deity.
Click to expand...
How is that when Jesus said he isn't God?

Mark 10
18“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone.
 
Runningman said:
How is that when Jesus said he isn't God?

Mark 10
18“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone.
Click to expand...
Th Unitarian twist. Your leaders cannot help you, seems you bought into their lies.
 
Runningman said:
Prayer is a different word in Scripture than appeal, called on, spoke to, etc. The words you are saying are prayer in Acts 7 are used repeatedly through the New Testament and they aren’t prayers. You and I are also talking and this isn’t a prayer. So what you’re trying to do is make speaking to Jesus a prayer, but speaking to other people is not a prayer. See the inconsistency and invalidity of your argument? What would help you is if there were actually any examples of Jesus being prayed to in the Bible or if it was something he or others taught.
Click to expand...
Hello again Runningman, people on Earth don't "pray" to other people on Earth, even if the other Person is God incarnate/Jesus Christ/Emmanuel. The disciples "talked with" Jesus when He walked among them, and they will do so again on the New Earth, but He resides in Heaven with His Father now, so we "pray to" Him instead, just like we pray to His Father.

In Acts 7, Stephen (on Earth) "prayed" to Jesus (in Heaven) to "receive his spirit" as he was dying. That is main point, the one that truly needs to be discussed from this passage, the one that you keep avoiding, so let's take another look. If the Lord Jesus is not Divine, but instead, merely the human being that you believe Him to be, then why would Stephen (who was filled with the Holy Spirit at the time) choose to call upon Him (a mere man) instead of calling upon His Father (who is God) to "receive his spirit" as he was dying :unsure:

Thanks :)

--Papa Smurf
 
Runningman said:
How is that when Jesus said he isn't God?

Mark 10
18“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone.
Click to expand...
You misunderstand; Jesus did not say that he isn't God; rather, he asked why the questioner called him "good" (because the questioner was in unbelief). In other words, it's equivalent to Jesus saying to him, "Why do you call me good, since only God is good and you don't believe that I'm God.". It would along the same lines as me asking someone why he called me Scottish, since he didn't believe that I'm Scottish.
 
1. Frederick Danker: Just as Israel was to understand her role as one of obedience to the God who saved her, so the Christian is to see the moral and ethical implications of this recognition of Christ's claim to ownership expressed so often in such a phrase as "Paul, a slave of Christ Jesus." Out of such conviction the iron of steadfast confession was smelted. As the stones came flying at Stephen, he prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." (Acts 7:59) (Creeds in the Bible, page 45, c. 1966).

2. A Greek and English Lexicon to the New Testament: To call upon, invoke, in prayer. Rom. 10:12, 14. 2 Tim. 2:22. Acts 7:59 (epikaleō, page 243)

3. Mounce's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words: Jesus is the addressee when epikaleō is used in the sense of praying (Acts 7:59) (Call, page 93).

4. Robertson's New Testament Word Studies and Bible Commentary: they kept on stoning, they kept it up as he was calling upon the Lord Jesus and making direct prayer to him as "Lord Jesus"
http://www.godrules.net/library/robert/robertact7.htm

5. Theological Dictionary of the New Testament: Stephen prays: kurie Iesou dezai to pneuma mou (Ac.7:59) (5:771, paradeisos, J. Jeremias).

6. Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words: Prayer is properly addressed to God the Father, Matt. 6:6; John 16:23; Eph. 1:17; 3:14, and the Son, Acts 7:59; 2 Cor. 12:8 (Prayer, page 872).
 
Papa Smurf said:
Hello again Runningman, people on Earth don't "pray" to other people on Earth, even if the other Person is God incarnate/Jesus Christ/Emmanuel. The disciples "talked with" Jesus when He walked among them, and they will do so again on the New Earth, but He resides in Heaven with His Father now, so we "pray to" Him instead, just like we pray to His Father.

In Acts 7, Stephen (on Earth) "prayed" to Jesus (in Heaven) to "receive his spirit" as he was dying. That is main point, the one that truly needs to be discussed from this passage, the one that you keep avoiding, so let's take another look. If the Lord Jesus is not Divine, but instead, merely the human being that you believe Him to be, then why would Stephen (who was filled with the Holy Spirit at the time) choose to call upon Him (a mere man) instead of calling upon His Father (who is God) to "receive his spirit" as he was dying :unsure:

Thanks :)

--Papa Smurf
Click to expand...
So you admin Jesus was never prayed to then? He wasn't on earth when Stephen prayed to Him.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Eleanor said:
Ac 7:59. . .

All hat. . .and no cowboy.
Click to expand...
The Bible never says Jesus was prayed to or answers prayers. Can you even provide one example of Jesus answering a prayer then?
 
Runningman said:
The Bible never says Jesus was prayed to or answers prayers. Can you even provide one example of Jesus answering a prayer then?
Click to expand...
How many times do you have to be told?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Hobie
What will we take to heaven....?
5 6 7
Replies
138
Views
2K
Josheb
Josheb
Arial
Those In Christ are Holy to God
Replies
0
Views
46
Arial
Arial
David Koberstein
GOD REMEMBERS HIS PROMISES – BUT ASKS FOR REMINDERS!
Replies
2
Views
38
Eleanor
E
M
Not Appointed to Wrath
Replies
2
Views
64
EarlyActs
EarlyActs
makesends
Argument against the Doctrine of the Trinity. (And keep it clean, please.)
2 3
Replies
59
Views
624
Paul
P
Back
Top