Is repentance needed for salvation?

[Arial]

There is no evidence in the Law, Psalms, or Prophets of God making covenant with Gentiles or the seed of any Gentile.

Gen 22:15-18 And the angel of the Lord called to Abraham a second tie from heaven and said, "By myself I have sworn, declares the Lord, because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, I will surely bless you, and I will surely multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven and as the sand that is he seashore. And your offspring shall possess the gate of His enemies, and your seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because you have obeyed my voice.

Covenant.

The above verse interpreted as to its true and deep meaning. Gal 3:15-18 Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man's covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seed," as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed" who is Christ. And this I saqy, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

26-29 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ;s, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

This covenant with Abraham was made with all nations even before the Mosaic covenant, and both covenants are fulfilled in Christ. It is actually two parts of one covenant with a secondary covenant within it of law with Israel. Learn your Bible through impartial and unprejudiced eyes.

 

[Arial]

God is saving hard-core, uncircumcised, non-covenant Gentiles without a covenant.
His prerogative.

Scriptures clearly say differently. Scriptures show from the Garden of Eden forward that God always relates to humanity through covenant. That is why we can trust Him. He always does what He says He will do. And if one cannot see the spiritual aspects of the truths that are portrayed through the actions of men and the actions of God that are in the Bible, and stays utterly earthbound in their understanding, it is because they are spiritually discerned and the natural man cannot discern them. they are foolishness to him.

 

[Arial]

Israel is betrothed to God. Israel is the Church of God. They were known as 4-million strong "Great Congregation" in the desert at the time of the Tabernacle when God delivered the Hebrews out of Egypt.
Nothing's changed.

That sounds both bitter and bigoted. Yet you have said you are not a Jew so it boggles the mind to think you would be so. You indict yourself as being in no covenant with God. New Testament. New Covenant. Nowhere does it say Gentiles are not covenant members and plenty of places it says that they are.

You have also said you are not a Gentile, so please clarify, what do you say you are? In biblical language there are Jews, Gentiles (sometimes referred to as Greek because of the location, but applies to all non-Jews) angels, demons and various spirit beings.

And to say nothing has changed is to spit on the Son of God.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Ethnicity Salvation, Apostacy, Salvation based on race

Jesus is a Jew.
God chose a Hebrew.
God is a respecter of persons. His people, and those not His people.
Why try to make God into something He's not. But although God chose Abram the Hebrew over all the families of the earth and separated them from Gentiles, even commanded them to 'not mingle with the Gentiles nor learn their ways' the choice of the Hebrews was Sovereign choice. They are the apple of His eye. God never says this about Gentile Christians. God is very ethnic, racial. God sent His only begotten Son to die for His Bride and Church. He may spank them when they got out of line, but God will come eventually and fight alongside Israel and destroy His enemies. This throws out the false belief that God loves everyone for I cannot see God in Christ when He returns killing and destroying 'those He loves.'
Don't expect a "General Audience" God. The LORD God Almighty is triple "X" for extreme.
ANYONE touching His Anointed - whether Christ or Jewish Christians I will say this, "it is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the Living God."

 

[jeremiah1five]

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Mercy_Shown, Saul is writing to Jewish Christians, his brethren. The whole of New Covenant writings except two personal letters to Tim, are written to Jewish Christians who founded home church fellowships in the places and locations he and the others (Pete, John, James) writes to.
If Gentiles are mentioned there is greater chance he is speaking about circumcised Gentile proselytes for they would be in the synagogues when many of the 3000 Jews born-again Jews at the Feast of Harvest returned to their synagogues and homes in Gentile lands taking with them an outline of Peter's sermon, their experiences with the Holy Spirit of Promise, and Jesus Messiah and told of their experiences at the feast. There are 17 languages the disciples speak in Acts 2 and those languages identify the areas or regions these Jews came from to the Feast for God was speaking to THEM. And that was only 3000 saved on the Day of Pentecost. If 3000 is a median number, then by weeks end God the Holy Spirit baptized into the body of Christ about 21,000 Jews and filled them with the Holy Spirit of Promise God made to Israel. The New Covenant writings contain Jewish history, the Law of Moses, the Abrahamic Covenant, their prophets and prophecies, their culture, their Judaic religion and practices of Temple and Tabernacle life. They quote extensively out of the Law, Psalms, and Prophets and these writings are addressed to Jewish Christians.
Now, to your Scripture: Take note for the things the writers - all of them - write about no hard-core, uncircumcised, non-covenant Gentiles coming out of their places of worship of these dumb idols would have the level of knowledge in order to understand all the Jewishness of the New Covenant writings.

6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. Gal. 1:6–8.

The "another gospel" Saul is referring to is Judaism. Hebrew 6 also addresses Jewish Christians due to persecution and excommunication from their Jewish brethren for the testimony of Christ wanted to return to Judaism, but Saul says, "It is impossible once they had been enlightened."

Another deep abiding concern the Jewish Christians had that Saul writes to and addresses was the effect Israel's Messiah had on the existing covenants, specifically the Abrahamic Covenant.

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture [Jewish Scriptures] hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we [Jews] were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our [Jews] schoolmaster to bring us [Jews] unto Christ, that we [Jews] might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we [Jews] are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye [Jews] are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you [Jews] as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye [Jews] are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye [Jews] be Christ’s, then are ye [Jews] Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise [given to Abraham]. Gal. 3:19–29.

A Jewish Covenant. A Jewish Messiah. A New Covenant initiated by a Holy Spirit. Israel entered a new era and It took time for the Jews - especially experienced Jewish Christians - to search the Hebrew Scriptures to get an understanding as to the 'new thing' God was doing in Israel. And for at least four decades until the destruction of the Jewish Temple everything God was doing with regard to this New Covenant was being done to Israel.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Indeed, and which salvation has a very specific meaning in the NT; i.e., from condemnation on one's sin at the final judgment, through
faith in and trust on the atoning work (blood, Ro 3:25) and person of Jesus Christ for the remission of that sin and right standing (not guilty, reconciled) with God.

Salvation is of the Lord. No man can come to the Son except the Father draw him/her. If there is no drawing, there is no coming.

21 He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob,
Neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel:
The LORD his God is with him,
And the shout of a king is among them.
Num.23:21.

2 Thou hast forgiven the iniquity of thy people,
Thou hast covered all their sin. Selah.
Ps 85:2.

Take note as to who the LORD God has made covenant with:

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
That I will make a new covenant
With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
In the day that I took them by the hand
To bring them out of the land of Egypt;
Which my covenant they brake,
Although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: (Israel is the Bride of Christ.)
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jer. 31:31–34.

It's not hard to see.
Read it as much as in you with a Jewish mindset/perspective and come to the knowledge of the truth. Hopefully, your understanding will deepen.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Gen 22:15-18 And the angel of the Lord called to Abraham a second tie from heaven and said, "By myself I have sworn, declares the Lord, because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, I will surely bless you, and I will surely multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven and as the sand that is he seashore. And your offspring shall possess the gate of His enemies, and your seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because you have obeyed my voice.

Covenant.

The above verse interpreted as to its true and deep meaning. Gal 3:15-18 Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man's covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seed," as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed" who is Christ. And this I saqy, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

26-29 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ;s, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

This covenant with Abraham was made with all nations even before the Mosaic covenant, and both covenants are fulfilled in Christ. It is actually two parts of one covenant with a secondary covenant within it of law with Israel. Learn your Bible through impartial and unprejudiced eyes.

There is no evidence in the Law, Psalms, and Prophets of Jehovah God, the God of Israel ever making covenant with Gentiles or the seed of Gentiles.
Now look closely. You see the word "nation(s)" and you think it means Gentile but that is not the case. Not here.

2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
(This covenant is between God and Abraham. It is not between God and the stranger, or the servant, or the foreigner.)
3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
(God reiterates this covenant is between God and Abraham, not with the stranger, or servant, or foreigner.)
8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
Gen. 17:2–10.

15 And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.
16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a [mother] of nations; kings of people shall be of her. Gen. 17:14–16.

23 And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham’s house; and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him. Gen. 17:23.

18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, Gen. 18:18.

"Nations of thee" and "kings" shall come "out of thee" do not refer to Gentiles because Gentiles do not "come out of thee" (Abraham.)

The same is said of Sarah being a [mother] of "nations; kings of people shall be of her"

Again, Gentiles do not come from the loins of Abraham.
But what did come "out of thee" (Abraham) were Ishmael and from Isaac, Esau. THESE are the nations and kings that "come out of thee" (Abraham) as they are the seed of Abraham and descendants of the slave woman (Hagar), and from Esau for "in Issac and Jacob shall the "seed of promise is made."

Circumcision separated covenant Hebrew from non-covenant Gentile. God placed a middle wall partition between the races, so yes, God is racial, He is ethnic.
That's what I read in Scripture, and it is correct.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Scriptures clearly say differently. Scriptures show from the Garden of Eden forward that God always relates to humanity through covenant. That is why we can trust Him. He always does what He says He will do. And if one cannot see the spiritual aspects of the truths that are portrayed through the actions of men and the actions of God that are in the Bible, and stays utterly earthbound in their understanding, it is because they are spiritually discerned and the natural man cannot discern them. they are foolishness to him.

God made no covenant with Adam or the woman.

There was no covenant made nor mentioned. There is no evidence of God saying, "My covenant is between me and thee" to the man or the woman. Not even the promised Redeemer is made to the man or the woman. But it is made to the "serpent"

14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Gen. 3:14–15.

But there is no covenant made here in the Garden, no terms, no language of covenant as God made with Noah and Abraham. None.

The Scripture must be taken the way it is written. Take it literal for the Word of God is literal. As the Scriptures were being written by Moses (Pentateuch) and the prophets and writers of the Psalms, they spoke/wrote of the literal word of God for God said what He means, and God means what He says.
All these "analogies" and "spiritualization" and methods of interpretation are OK, but although they learn later the "Law is spiritual" they only saw the "letter of the Law" for the Holy Spirit had not come to illuminate and enlighten minds. And that was the whole issue between Jesus and the religious leaders. Jesus spoke and taught the spirit of the Law (as the Anointed One), but Israel only understood the letter of the Law. THEY were spiritually discerned (1 Cor. 2:14.)

 

[jeremiah1five]

That sounds both bitter and bigoted. Yet you have said you are not a Jew so it boggles the mind to think you would be so. You indict yourself as being in no covenant with God. New Testament. New Covenant. Nowhere does it say Gentiles are not covenant members and plenty of places it says that they are.

Post the Scripture that God made covenant with Gentiles as He made covenant with Noah and Abraham. Where does it read in covenant fashion:

9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you; Gen. 9:9.

or

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee Gen. 17:7.

WHERE in the Hebrew Scriptures of Law, Psalms, and Prophets does God say to ANY Gentile "I will establish me covenant between me and thee" (Gentiles)?

Post your Scripture and support your statements.

You have also said you are not a Gentile, so please clarify, what do you say you are? In biblical language there are Jews, Gentiles (sometimes referred to as Greek because of the location, but applies to all non-Jews) angels, demons and various spirit beings.

And to say nothing has changed is to spit on the Son of God.

That's whay YOU think, and you can think whatever leaning on your own understanding leads you to post, but as for me and my house we will serve the LORD, the God of ZIsrael, the racial God, the ethnic God, who chose a Hebrew and made Himself a Jewish people that are His Great Congregation and Church and His Bride:

19 And I will betroth thee unto me for ever;
Yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment,
And in lovingkindness, and in mercies.
20 I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness:
And thou shalt know the LORD.
Hosea 2:19–20.

The "Great Congregation" in the desert at the time of the Tabernacle were Church or God ("called out [ones]), just as God called out His Son out of Egypt and God called out His covenant people Israel out of Egypt. God placed the "middle wall of partition" between covenant Israel and non-covenant Gentiles for God had said, "In Issac shall thy seed be called."

I take Scripture as written. The things I submit for post are historically and biblically correct. I used to read the Scriptures with a Gentile mindset and interpret the Hebrew Scriptures with a Gentile perspective until the Lord opened my eyes and I began to see as He sees. God is a Covenant God. And God made covenant with the Hebrews and God made covenant with the children of Israel/Jacob, Abraham's grandson. It's a family covenant God made with Abram the Hebrew over all the families of the earth. But even Israel should humble themselves as should Gentile Christians for God said in Deuteronomy:

7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. Dt 7:7–8.

Hebrew Scriptures of Law, Psalms, and Prophets. A Jewish Messiah was Promised, and a Jewish Messiah was sent to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Messiah sent His disciples to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. The New Covenant is made with the House of Israel. As promised Christ built His Church populated with Jews from the twelve tribes of Israel and for four decades the "ism" of Judaism remained while the Temple stood and everything happening in Israel to the children of Jacob/was seen and interpreted and understood from a Hebrew/Jewish perspective. And why not? IT IS THEIR COVENANT.

 

[Ladodgers6]

Some people claim that repentance has no place in salvation, that you can believe in Jesus as “Savior” but never repent of your sin. That you can be saved even if you continue in chained to sin and iniquity just as it was before you became a Christian, that no change is needed. So what does Christ say:

Matthew 4:17 King James Version (KJV)
17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mark 1:15
And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Matthew 9:13
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Mark 2:17
When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Luke 5:32 King James Version (KJV)
32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Jesus even repeated it for emphasis in describing to the people:
Luke 13:1-6 King James Version (KJV)
1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Jesus told his disciples to proclaim “repentance and remission of sins” in his name to all the nations (Luke 24:47).
When the apostles preached in Acts, they called people to repent of their sins in order to be forgiven:

Acts 2:38 King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 3:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

Acts 5:30-31 King James Version (KJV)
30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Scripture is clear, repentance is absolutely necessary in order to be saved. Only those truly repent and turn to Christ and His righteousness in their lives, and away from their sin, will be saved on the last day.

The question you pose blurs the lines, and even distorts how a sinner is justified and declared righteous before a Holy God who demands justice. We do not deny one must repent of their sins; Luther himself was accused with this same charge by the Roman Catholic Church and stone to death. But Luther set the record straight and wrote a tract entitled, "The Freedom of a Christian". Where it states that once a sinner is declared perfectly righteous in Christ and his merits through Faith Alone apart from any works, then this believer can live for God.

Paul makes is crystal clear in Romans 4-6. In Romans 3-4, Paul talks about how a sinner is justified before a Holy God. Is it through Grace Alone, works or both?

Answer: Romans 3:27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

Galatians 2:15 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; 16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

A lot of people think as the old medieval dark ages did (RCC). That sinners have to reach or obtain a certain level of moral (holy) improvement to qualify or merit God's favor. This is precisely what sparked the Reformation, because this removes the Gospel's Promise and is replaced by the demands of the Law. Which Paul condemns and cursed those false apostles of doing in Galatia.
​

What, then, is the connection between repentance and salvation? The book of Acts especially focuses on repentance in regard to salvation (Acts 2:38; 3:19; 11:18; 17:30; 20:21; 26:20). To repent, concerning salvation, is to change your mind regarding sin and Jesus Christ. In Peter’s sermon on the day of Pentecost (Acts chapter 2), he concludes with a call for the people to repent (Acts 2:38). Repent from what? Peter calls the people who rejected Jesus (Acts 2:36) to change their minds about that sin and to change their minds about Christ Himself, recognizing that He is indeed “Lord and Christ” (Acts 2:36). Peter calls the people to change their minds, to abhor their past rejection of Christ, and to embrace faith in Him as their Messiah and Savior.

Repentance involves recognizing that you have thought wrongly in the past and determining to think rightly in the future. The repentant person has “second thoughts” about the mindset he formerly embraced. There is a change of disposition and a new way of thinking about God, about sin, about holiness, and about doing God’s will. True repentance is prompted by “godly sorrow,” and it “leads to salvation” (2 Corinthians 7:10).

Paul says after Romans 4, now that you have been justified in Christ through Faith Alone, go and walk in the newness of life. This is sanctification of the believer that flow from our Justification in Christ. This is the new man, the old man has been crucified and buried with Christ. Basically the curse of the Law has been removed. But remember that these works are the result of our salvation in Christ not the cause of it or ground of it. This is where people muddies the waters and pervert the Gospel's Promise that God justifies the ungodly; it doesn't say God justified the godly here (Romans 4:5).​

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus is a Jew.
God chose a Hebrew.
God is a respecter of persons. His people, and those not His people.
Why try to make God into something He's not. But although God chose Abram the Hebrew over all the families of the earth and separated them from Gentiles, even commanded them to 'not mingle with the Gentiles nor learn their ways' the choice of the Hebrews was Sovereign choice. They are the apple of His eye. God never says this about Gentile Christians. God is very ethnic, racial. God sent His only begotten Son to die for His Bride and Church. He may spank them when they got out of line, but God will come eventually and fight alongside Israel and destroy His enemies. This throws out the false belief that God loves everyone for I cannot see God in Christ when He returns killing and destroying 'those He loves.'
Don't expect a "General Audience" God. The LORD God Almighty is triple "X" for extreme.
ANYONE touching His Anointed - whether Christ or Jewish Christians I will say this, "it is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the Living God."

Ethnicity Salvation, Apostacy, Salvation based on race

 

[brightfame52]

Post the Scripture that God made covenant with Gentiles as He made covenant with Noah and Abraham. Where does it read in covenant fashion:

9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you; Gen. 9:9.

or

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee Gen. 17:7.

WHERE in the Hebrew Scriptures of Law, Psalms, and Prophets does God say to ANY Gentile "I will establish me covenant between me and thee" (Gentiles)?

Post your Scripture and support your statements.

That's whay YOU think, and you can think whatever leaning on your own understanding leads you to post, but as for me and my house we will serve the LORD, the God of ZIsrael, the racial God, the ethnic God, who chose a Hebrew and made Himself a Jewish people that are His Great Congregation and Church and His Bride:

19 And I will betroth thee unto me for ever;
Yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment,
And in lovingkindness, and in mercies.
20 I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness:
And thou shalt know the LORD.
Hosea 2:19–20.

The "Great Congregation" in the desert at the time of the Tabernacle were Church or God ("called out [ones]), just as God called out His Son out of Egypt and God called out His covenant people Israel out of Egypt. God placed the "middle wall of partition" between covenant Israel and non-covenant Gentiles for God had said, "In Issac shall thy seed be called."

I take Scripture as written. The things I submit for post are historically and biblically correct. I used to read the Scriptures with a Gentile mindset and interpret the Hebrew Scriptures with a Gentile perspective until the Lord opened my eyes and I began to see as He sees. God is a Covenant God. And God made covenant with the Hebrews and God made covenant with the children of Israel/Jacob, Abraham's grandson. It's a family covenant God made with Abram the Hebrew over all the families of the earth. But even Israel should humble themselves as should Gentile Christians for God said in Deuteronomy:

7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. Dt 7:7–8.

Hebrew Scriptures of Law, Psalms, and Prophets. A Jewish Messiah was Promised, and a Jewish Messiah was sent to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Messiah sent His disciples to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. The New Covenant is made with the House of Israel. As promised Christ built His Church populated with Jews from the twelve tribes of Israel and for four decades the "ism" of Judaism remained while the Temple stood and everything happening in Israel to the children of Jacob/was seen and interpreted and understood from a Hebrew/Jewish perspective. And why not? IT IS THEIR COVENANT.

Isa 42:6-7

6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
Gill also writes:

denoting his presence with him, and nearness unto him; his favour and affection for him; his counsel and direction of him; the support and assistance he gave him; and the strength he received from him as man, to go through his work: and will keep thee;
as the apple of his eye, being dear unto him; from being hurt by his enemies till the time came to be delivered into their hands; and from miscarrying in his work; and from the power of the grave, so as to be long detained in it: and give thee for a covenant of the people;
Christ is a covenantee, a party concerned in the covenant of grace; the representative of his people in it; the surety, Mediator, messenger, and ratifier of it; the great blessing in it; the sum and substance of it; all the blessings and promises of it are in him, and as such he is "given"; it is of God's free grace that he was appointed and intrusted with all this in eternity, and was sent in time to confirm and secure it for "the people"; given him of his Father, redeemed by him and to whom the Spirit applies the blessings and promises of the covenant; even the elect of God, both among Jews and Gentiles, especially the latter, as follows: for a light of the Gentiles;
who were in the dark as to the true knowledge of God and Jesus Christ, and the way of righteousness and salvation by him, and of all divine and spiritual things; now Christ, through the ministry of the word by his Spirit, was a light unto them; by which they were enlightened into their own state and condition by nature, and into the knowledge of himself, and the mysteries of grace.

Gentiles are children of the Covenant and Prophets that Peter states here Acts 3:24-25

24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
Paul applies that to the Gentiles Gal 3:8
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen[Gentiles] through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

Mercy_Shown, Saul is writing to Jewish Christians, his brethren.

That is a moot point, considering what he wrote, it is clear that God's children are no longer identified by physical heritage but by faith in God. Paul writes in verse 22, "But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe." The identifier is "those that believe." Furthermore, Paul explained this concept to the gentile Roman Church like this, "In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring." (Romans 9:8)

If you read verse 7 in Gal 3, He also succinctly explains it when he writes, "Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham."

The whole of New Covenant writings except two personal letters to Tim, are written to Jewish Christians who founded home church fellowships in the places and locations

Paul said that he was an apostle to the Gentiles and the vast majority of his letters were addressed to the churches in gentile communities. These churches were a mixture of gentile and Jewish believers so to say that the New Covenant writings were "written to Jewish Christians" is not supported by the facts of the New Testament. What you espouse is simply racism. The fact is a lot of Jews cannot trace their lineage back to Abraham. Even Jesus or Joshua's lineage cannot be traced biologically back to Abraham.

Jesus traces His lineage back to God, and through Him, so do we. As for your bullpen of proof texts, they apply to all, who through faith, are Abraham's children of "many nations."

 

[Arial]

2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
(This covenant is between God and Abraham. It is not between God and the stranger, or the servant, or the foreigner.)
3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
(God reiterates this covenant is between God and Abraham, not with the stranger, or servant, or foreigner.)
8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
Gen. 17:2–10.

15 And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.
16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a [mother] of nations; kings of people shall be of her. Gen. 17:14–16.

23 And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham’s house; and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him. Gen. 17:23.

18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, Gen. 18:18.

"Nations of thee" and "kings" shall come "out of thee" do not refer to Gentiles because Gentiles do not "come out of thee" (Abraham.)

The same is said of Sarah being a [mother] of "nations; kings of people shall be of her"

Why are you quoting Gen 15 and utterly ignoring what I quoted from Gen 22? Utterly ignoring Paul's very specific interpretation of Gen 22. You know nothing of covenants and cannot recognize them when you see them. Gen 15 is about land. The verses I quoted from Gen 22 are about a covenant of promise. Apples and oranges. That covenant of promise is with all nations through Jesus. "This is the blood of the covenant."

Again, Gentiles do not come from the loins of Abraham.
But what did come "out of thee" (Abraham) were Ishmael and from Isaac, Esau. THESE are the nations and kings that "come out of thee" (Abraham) as they are the seed of Abraham and descendants of the slave woman (Hagar), and from Esau for "in Issac and Jacob shall the "seed of promise is made."

It does not say "loins". It says seed, some translations offspring or descendants. There are many Gentiles in the line of Abraham, Rahab and Ruth being just two. So you see God's plan and purpose for His restoration of the world through the redemption of men, is far reaching and multifaceted, intricately interwoven and linear, always covenant based as it can be no other way since it is God reaching down to the creature He created. It is not boxed in by ethnic covenants. Anytime He makes a promise or a judgement or a pronouncement, it is a covenant statement. He Himself as triune is covenantle within the Trinity. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in a covenant of unity and intent and fulfillment.

Circumcision separated covenant Hebrew from non-covenant Gentile. God placed a middle wall partition between the races, so yes, God is racial, He is ethnic.

In the old covenant. We have long since gone past that. Ever notice from our perspective God always moves forward, never backwards?

God placed a middle wall partition between the races, so yes, God is racial, He is ethnic.
That's what I read in Scripture, and it is correct.

Then you read with no discernment or understanding.
Eph 2:11-22

Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19So then you are no longer strangers and aliens,d but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God bye the Spirit.

---

 

[Arial]

There was no covenant made nor mentioned. There is no evidence of God saying, "My covenant is between me and thee" to the man or the woman.

If that is going to be your basis for saying there is no covenant then to remain consistent you would have to agree with the Unitarians when they use the argument against the Trinity that the Bible never uses the word "trinity" therefore God is not triune. It would be far more valid to define what a covenant is and see if one exists. Also it helps if we begin all our interpretations with a sound theology of who God is. Father, Son, Holy Spirit is itself a covenantal relationship. Three in agreement on all things at all times and each performing specific actions as agreed upon. The covenant of redemption is that covenant that existed before creation.

The very creation of Adam and Eve was a covenant with God and His creation---and not just Adam and Eve but creation itself. We see the conditions in Gen 2 and the consequences of violation of the covenant by the creature in Gen 3.

Not even the promised Redeemer is made to the man or the woman. But it is made to the "serpent"

Who is God redeeming? It was spoken to the serpent.

But there is no covenant made here in the Garden, no terms, no language of covenant as God made with Noah and Abraham. None.

That is simply not true as I have shown you.

The Scripture must be taken the way it is written. Take it literal for the Word of God is literal. As the Scriptures were being written by Moses (Pentateuch) and the prophets and writers of the Psalms, they spoke/wrote of the literal word of God for God said what He means, and God means what He says.

As the term literalis often missapplied when it comes to the Bible, you will need to explain what you mean by literal. Do you mean that when it speaks in figurative language that that language is to be taken literally? Such as sometimes God has to remember things that He forgot? Of the thunder is Him actually speaking? That there are actually storehouses where He stores up rain and snow and ice? That parables are literal?

Or do you mean it correctly regarding Bible interpretation. That Scripture is to be interpreted according to the type of genre it is?

All these "analogies" and "spiritualization" and methods of interpretation are OK, but although they learn later the "Law is spiritual" they only saw the "letter of the Law" for the Holy Spirit had not come to illuminate and enlighten minds. And that was the whole issue between Jesus and the religious leaders. Jesus spoke and taught the spirit of the Law (as the Anointed One), but Israel only understood the letter of the Law. THEY were spiritually discerned (1 Cor. 2:14.)

The first thing to do is learn the difference between spiritual and spiritualization and not use one for the other. And this is a convoluted post in which you introduce an anonymous "they" and completely change the subject to something irrelevant to the conversation. Which is how this entire derailed from the OP conversation began.

 

[Arial]

Post the Scripture that God made covenant with Gentiles as He made covenant with Noah and Abraham.

I did that the first time you asked and you ignored it, simply posting other scriptures about something else. Will you do better if I post them again?

Where does it read in covenant fashion:

9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you; Gen. 9:9.

or

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee Gen. 17:7.

One recognizes a covenant, not only by the word "covenant" being used, but by the definition of what a covenant is. You are defining covenant more according to legal language as in a will or contract.

In biblical language, which is what we must consider when it is the Bible that is being debated in the OT the word is berit. And though its meaning is debated, some say it comes from a custom of eating together, others emphasize the cutting an animal, the preferred meaning of this OT word refers to a covenant being "bond." Two or more parties bound together. And human creatures never bind themselves to the Almighty God. He is other than they are. They cannot reach Him. It is God who binds Himself to His creatures and His creation. It can be no other way. It is a relationship. So any binding that God does with His creature is a covenant relationship and the most glorious of all is the New Covenant with the blood (the cutting) being the very blood of the Son of God, Son of Man. Even you do not deny that Jesus redeemed both Jews and Gentiles. You simply declare, for some reason that remains a mystery to me, that He made no covenant with the Gentiles. Did He bind believing Gentiles to Himself as His adopted children? You can't have a more vivid picture of covenant relationship that that.

Post your Scripture and support your statements.

I did. You ignored it but that did not really make it go away. Reminds me of my little sister when she was two and we played hide and seek with her. She would hide by covering her eyes thinking that if she couldn't see, she could not be seen.

Post the Scripture that God made covenant with Gentiles as He made covenant with Noah and Abraham. Where does it read in covenant fashion:

9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you; Gen. 9:9.

or

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee Gen. 17:7.

WHERE in the Hebrew Scriptures of Law, Psalms, and Prophets does God say to ANY Gentile "I will establish me covenant between me and thee" (Gentiles)?

Post your Scripture and support your statements.

That's whay YOU think, and you can think whatever leaning on your own understanding leads you to post, but as for me and my house we will serve the LORD, the God of ZIsrael, the racial God, the ethnic God, who chose a Hebrew and made Himself a Jewish people that are His Great Congregation and Church and His Bride:

19 And I will betroth thee unto me for ever;
Yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment,
And in lovingkindness, and in mercies.
20 I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness:
And thou shalt know the LORD.
Hosea 2:19–20.

The "Great Congregation" in the desert at the time of the Tabernacle were Church or God ("called out [ones]), just as God called out His Son out of Egypt and God called out His covenant people Israel out of Egypt. God placed the "middle wall of partition" between covenant Israel and non-covenant Gentiles for God had said, "In Issac shall thy seed be called."

I take Scripture as written. The things I submit for post are historically and biblically correct. I used to read the Scriptures with a Gentile mindset and interpret the Hebrew Scriptures with a Gentile perspective until the Lord opened my eyes and I began to see as He sees. God is a Covenant God. And God made covenant with the Hebrews and God made covenant with the children of Israel/Jacob, Abraham's grandson. It's a family covenant God made with Abram the Hebrew over all the families of the earth. But even Israel should humble themselves as should Gentile Christians for God said in Deuteronomy:

7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. Dt 7:7–8.

Hebrew Scriptures of Law, Psalms, and Prophets. A Jewish Messiah was Promised, and a Jewish Messiah was sent to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Messiah sent His disciples to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. The New Covenant is made with the House of Israel. As promised Christ built His Church populated with Jews from the twelve tribes of Israel and for four decades the "ism" of Judaism remained while the Temple stood and everything happening in Israel to the children of Jacob/was seen and interpreted and understood from a Hebrew/Jewish perspective. And why not? IT IS THEIR COVENANT.

All that and not only did you not answer the question but pretended it didn't exist even though you quoted it. Something smells rotten here.

 

[Eleanor]

Salvation is of the Lord. No man can come to the Son except the Father draw him/her. If there is no drawing, there is no coming.

21 He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob,
Neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel:
The LORD his God is with him,
And the shout of a king is among them.
Num.23:21.

2 Thou hast forgiven the iniquity of thy people,
Thou hast covered all their sin. Selah.
Ps 85:2.

Take note as to who the LORD God has made covenant with:

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
That I will make a new covenant
With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
In the day that I took them by the hand
To bring them out of the land of Egypt;
Which my covenant they brake,
Although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: (Israel is the Bride of Christ.)
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jer. 31:31–34.
It's not hard to see.

Read it as much as in you with a Jewish mindset/perspective and come to the knowledge of the truth. Hopefully, your understanding will deepen.

I have the following NT mind set of the Messiah, Jesus of Nazareth, and his 12 appointed teachers for the people of God.
Perhaps you will come to the knowledge of the truth regarding Messiah's new covenant, and your understanding will deepen.

"Salvation has a very specific meaning in the NT; i.e., from condemnation on one's sin at the final judgment, through
faith in and trust on the atoning work (blood, Ro 3:25) and person of Jesus Christ for the remission of that sin and right standing (not guilty, reconciled) with God."

 

[jeremiah1five]

Ethnicity Salvation, Apostacy, Salvation based on race

It is what it is.
Salvation is of the LORD.
It was God's covenant with Abraham and He required circumcision which was the beginning of the Hebrew race.
The Hebrews became a nation at the time of Moses and the giving of God's Laws.
He installed a middle wall partition between the races.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Isa 42:6-7

6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

OK. Israel is to be a light. Excellent.

7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
Gill also writes:
Gentiles are children of the Covenant and Prophets that Peter states here Acts 3:24-25

James Gill is wrong. Gentiles do not come from the loins of Abraham.

24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
Paul applies that to the Gentiles Gal 3:8
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen[Gentiles] through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Being included in the Abrahamic Covenant described in Genesis is one thing, being justified by faith is another.
Abraham also had Ishmael and the father of the Arabs who are counted as Gentiles for they are not Hebrew. The Hebrew race began with Abraham and through to Isaac and then to Jacob and Jacob's children also known as the children of Israel. Isaac had a son named Esau who wasn't Hebrew for the Hebrew race began with Abraham to Isaac to Jacob - not Esau. His descendants are not Hebrew but are non-Jew which is what a Gentile is.
Bending over backwards to try and squeeze non-covenant Gentiles into the Abrahamic Covenant is fruitless. If God did not include them when He made the covenant with Abraham, then uncircumcised Gentiles are not included in this covenant.
God made no covenant with Gentiles. He is saving Gentiles - non-covenant, uncircumcised Gentiles without a covenant.
End of story.

 

[Eleanor]

OK. Israel is to be a light. Excellent.

James Gill is wrong. Gentiles do not come from the loins of Abraham.

Being included in the Abrahamic Covenant described in Genesis is one thing, being justified by faith is another.
Abraham also had Ishmael and the father of the Arabs who are counted as Gentiles for they are not Hebrew. The Hebrew race began with Abraham and through to Isaac and then to Jacob and Jacob's children also known as the children of Israel. Isaac had a son named Esau who wasn't Hebrew for the Hebrew race began with Abraham to Isaac to Jacob - not Esau. His descendants are not Hebrew but are non-Jew which is what a Gentile is.
Bending over backwards to try and squeeze non-covenant Gentiles into the Abrahamic Covenant is fruitless. If God did not include them when He made the covenant with Abraham, then uncircumcised Gentiles are not included in this covenant.
God made no covenant with Gentiles. He is saving Gentiles - non-covenant, uncircumcised Gentiles without a covenant.
End of story.

God has made all those in Christ, including Gentiles, to be Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise (Gal 3:29),
keeping in mind the promises where made to Abraham's singular seed only; i.e., Jesus Christ (Gal 3:16).
So that all those in Jesus Christ, the only seed of the promise (Gal 3:16), are thereby Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise.