Is repentance needed for salvation?

[jeremiah1five]

That is a moot point, considering what he wrote, it is clear that God's children are no longer identified by physical heritage but by faith in God. Paul writes in verse 22, "But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe." The identifier is "those that believe." Furthermore, Paul explained this concept to the gentile Roman Church like this, "In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring." (Romans 9:8)

Saul is writing to Jewish Christians in the Jewish churches at Rome. It's their covenant and Saul was a Pharisee knowing this.
When Christ returns, He is coming as King of the Jews not King of the Gentiles for God has no covenant with Gentiles. They are all non-Jew, and uncircumcised. IF any Gentiles were there when God made Covenant WITH ABRAHAM they were circumcised. From that day on to receive the blessings of Abraham and HIS COVENANT one had to be circumcised, make vows, offer sacrifices, etc., as contained in the Law.
The New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation are Jewish writing documenting in the gospels Jewish history, culture, covenants, Tabernacle and Temple life, Jewish prophets and their prophecies and religious practices. They were written so that Israel might believe that this Jesus is their long-awaited Messiah and King and Redeemer and Deliverer and Prophet like unto Moses - another Hebrew.

If you read verse 7 in Gal 3, He also succinctly explains it when he writes, "Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham."

Yes, writing to Jewish Christians who were deeply concerned as to their standing in the Abrahamic Covenant. They needed to know in the face of persecution, excommunication from their synagogues they were on the right track because as the author of Hebrews says in chapter 6 many of them after being enlightened and tasted the heavenly wanted to go back to Judaism, but the author says it is impossible.

Now look who Saul is writing to in his letter to Jewish Christians in the Galatian region: HJe references the Law. Did YOU JEWS receive the Holy Spirit by following the Law or by faith in Messiah Jesus. These Jewish Christians were suffering persecution from their Jewish brethren for their testimony in Christ. Referring back to their father Abraham Saul explains Abraham's faith and that if you have the same faith in God as he did you are his children not only by seed but also by faith for in the Law was no faith. Think it through.

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. Gal. 3:1–7.

Paul said that he was an apostle to the Gentiles and the vast majority of his letters were addressed to the churches in gentile communities. These churches were a mixture of gentile and Jewish believers so to say that the New Covenant writings were "written to Jewish Christians" is not supported by the facts of the New Testament. What you espouse is simply racism. The fact is a lot of Jews cannot trace their lineage back to Abraham. Even Jesus or Joshua's lineage cannot be traced biologically back to Abraham.

The New Covenant writings were written by Jewish Christians (Saul, Peter, James, John, Matthew, etc.), and their letters were sent to Jewish Christians who founded the home churches in Corinth, Ephesus, Philippi, etc., after the split between them and their Messiah who hanged on a tree and the Judaizers who gave them a hard time, maybe even excommunicated them because they couldn't receive how their ZMessiah and king died on a tree which to them was a curse. They stumbled at this stumbling stone.
ALL the content of the New Covenant writings contains extensive recounting of Jewish history, life during Tabernacle and Temple settings, their culture, their religion, their prophets (Isaiah, Joel, Jeremiah, Moses, Abraham, their covenants, totally Jewish in content. If any Gentiles are mentioned, they would first have to be circumcised Gentile proselytes for they would be present in the synagogues when these newborn Jewish Christians returned from Pentecost born-again under the influence of the Holy Spirit and would have heard their testimony of their experiences and an outline of Peter's sermon. 3000 Jews were born-again on the Day of Pentecost. And being that Christ added to His Church daily such as should be saved, if we take 3000 salvations as a median number, then by weeks end 21,000 Jews would have been born-again and filled with the Holy Spirit of Promise as contained in the Mosaic and New Covenant prophecies. Circumcised Gentile proselytes may have been joined to the Abrahamic Covenant, but they were not considered Jew. A Jew is a natural descendant of Abraham. They would still be called Gentile.
God is the One that founded the Hebrew Race with the Abrahamic Covenant. The Hebrew nation was founded by Moses and the children of Jacob/Israel through the giving of the Law and God's placement of a middle wall partition that separated Jew from Gentile. God commanded His Hebrew people to "not mingle with the Gentiles and learn their ways" but Israel did not always obey. So, if you want to call anyone racist that would be God. It's all His doing.

Jesus traces His lineage back to God, and through Him, so do we. As for your bullpen of proof texts, they apply to all, who through faith, are Abraham's children of "many nations."

So, you are a Jew/Hebrew? Which tribe?
Because if you're not Hebrew/Jewish then you are not a seed of Abraham. Even if you have faith doesn't miraculously make you Hebrew/Jewish. Those designations are reserved for the children of Israel whom God saved, gave them THEIR Holy Spirit of Promise and baptized them into the Church Christ was building in same fashion as what happened at Pentecost when the founding of the Church Christ promised to build was founded and populated by Jews.

Masel Tov.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Why are you quoting Gen 15 and utterly ignoring what I quoted from Gen 22? Utterly ignoring Paul's very specific interpretation of Gen 22. You know nothing of covenants and cannot recognize them when you see them. Gen 15 is about land. The verses I quoted from Gen 22 are about a covenant of promise. Apples and oranges. That covenant of promise is with all nations through Jesus. "This is the blood of the covenant."

It does not say "loins". It says seed, some translations offspring or descendants. There are many Gentiles in the line of Abraham, Rahab and Ruth being just two. So you see God's plan and purpose for His restoration of the world through the redemption of men, is far reaching and multifaceted, intricately interwoven and linear, always covenant based as it can be no other way since it is God reaching down to the creature He created. It is not boxed in by ethnic covenants. Anytime He makes a promise or a judgement or a pronouncement, it is a covenant statement. He Himself as triune is covenantle within the Trinity. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in a covenant of unity and intent and fulfillment.

In the old covenant. We have long since gone past that. Ever notice from our perspective God always moves forward, never backwards?

Then you read with no discernment or understanding.
Eph 2:11-22

Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19So then you are no longer strangers and aliens,d but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God bye the Spirit.

---

Bottom line is that the Abrahamic, Mosaic, and New Covenants are Hebrew/Jewish Cpovenants and no amount of discussion in the New Covenant writings will change that. God made no covenant with Gentiles in their Law, their Psalms, and their Prophets. None. And there is no evidence of God making a new covenant with Gentiles in the Jewish wrings from Matthew to Revelation. I've checked. It's not there.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Some people

That about covers how important it is.

"Some people" think the earth is flat, and that the moon is made of green cheese.

The Bible presents repentance as necessary. what "Some people" think doesn't mean SPIT.

 

[Arial]

Bottom line is that the Abrahamic, Mosaic, and New Covenants are Hebrew/Jewish Cpovenants and no amount of discussion in the New Covenant writings will change that. God made no covenant with Gentiles in their Law, their Psalms, and their Prophets. None. And there is no evidence of God making a new covenant with Gentiles in the Jewish wrings from Matthew to Revelation. I've checked. It's not there.

What stubbornly won't change no matter what Scripture says is your view. That is also known as hardening one's heart. And the NT concerning the New Covenant is revealing and interpreting what we see in the OT. You let the OT interpret the NT and that is chronologically backwards and fruitless.Plain and simple. You are stuck.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I have the following NT mind set of the Messiah, Jesus of Nazareth, and his 12 appointed teachers for the people of God.

And the people of God are the Jews.

Perhaps you will come to the knowledge of the truth regarding Messiah's new covenant, and your understanding will deepen.

You mean the New Covenant prophesied and described in Jeremiah 31:31-34? The one in which God makes covenant with the House of Israel (northern kingdom) and the House of Judah (southern kingdom)?

You know, my mom might write a last will and testament and name certain people in that will, but no one who is not named has any right to claim inclusion after the will is signed, and the Last will and testament of the Promised Messiah, Redeemer, Savior, and King of Israel signed that covenant with His blood and NO ONE not named in that will has any right to anything in that will.
Do you agree?

"Salvation has a very specific meaning in the NT; i.e., from condemnation on one's sin at the final judgment, through
faith in and trust on the atoning work (blood, Ro 3:25) and person of Jesus Christ for the remission of that sin and right standing (not guilty, reconciled) with God."

 

[Eleanor]

God made no covenant with Adam or the woman.
There was no covenant made nor mentioned. There is no evidence of God saying, "My covenant is between me and thee" to the man or the woman. Not even the promised Redeemer is made to the man or the woman. But it is made to the "serpent"
14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Gen. 3:14–15.
But there is no covenant made here in the Garden, no terms, no language of covenant as God made with Noah and Abraham. None.
The Scripture must be taken the way it is written. Take it literal for the Word of God is literal. As the Scriptures were being written by Moses (Pentateuch) and the prophets and writers of the Psalms, they spoke/wrote of the literal word of God for God said what He means, and God means what He says.

All these "analogies" and "spiritualization" and methods of interpretation are OK, but although they learn later the "Law is spiritual" they only saw the "letter of the Law" for the Holy Spirit had not come to illuminate and enlighten minds. And that was the whole issue between Jesus and the religious leaders. Jesus spoke and taught the spirit of the Law (as the Anointed One), but Israel only understood the letter of the Law. THEY were spiritually discerned (1 Cor. 2:14.)

There is no "letter of the law," nor is there "spirit of the law," in the NT.

There is only "the letter" which is the law (written code) and which law (written code) kills all who do not obey it perfectly, and
there is only "the Spirit" who is the Holy Spirit who gives life (2 Co 3:6) in his fulfillment of the new covenant promise to write that same law inwardly on "tablets of human hearts, thus providing the believer with love for God's law, which previously he had hated, and with power to keep it, which previously he did not have.

Jesus did not teach the "spirit of the law," rather Jesus as Divine Lawgiver gave new law, "You have heard it said (old law), but I say (new law). . ."
In every case, he added to (gave new) or abrogated law, he did not "reinterpret" law.

 

[jeremiah1five]

That about covers how important it is.

"Some people" think the earth is flat, and that the moon is made of green cheese.

The Bible presents repentance as necessary. what "Some people" think doesn't mean SPIT.

Ah, a works salvation.

 

[jeremiah1five]

What stubbornly won't change no matter what Scripture says is your view. That is also known as hardening one's heart. And the NT concerning the New Covenant is revealing and interpreting what we see in the OT. You let the OT interpret the NT and that is chronologically backwards and fruitless.Plain and simple. You are stuck.

Yeah, I harden it when I possess truth and I don't compromise. I'm not a wishy-washy Christian but solidly behind Christ.
And I've suffered for Him in this world, especially these last 5 years. But He gives me relief here and there, but my suffering is still on-going and this past December 5 marks five years and counting.
How 'bout that. 5. The number of grace.
I'll let you know.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

Saul is writing to Jewish Christians in the Jewish churches at Rome. It's their covenant and Saul was a Pharisee knowing this.

No he is not.

Saul is writing to Jewish Christians in the Jewish churches at Rome.

This is where the misunderstanding occurs. Paul was addressing the Jewish and the Gentile members in Rome. He was not just addressing the Jews.

Paul penned the book of Romans with the intention of fostering unity among Jewish and Gentile Christians in Rome through the gospel. Additionally, he aspired for the Roman church to serve as a strategic hub for spreading the gospel into Spain (15:22–24). The overarching purpose of proclaiming the gospel is to bring glory to God (11:33–36). Paul expresses a heartfelt desire for the Gentiles to embrace Christianity obediently, with the ultimate aim of honoring the name of Christ (1:5).


Romans 9:8 is part of a larger passage in the Bible where the apostle Paul is discussing the concept of God's sovereign choice in the context of the descendants of Abraham. Here is Romans 9:6-8 (ESV):

"But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but 'Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.' This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring."

In these verses, Paul is explaining that being a physical descendant of Abraham (or Israel) does not automatically guarantee a person's spiritual status as a child of God. Instead, he emphasizes the importance of the promise and God's sovereign choice in determining who belongs to His people.

The reference to "children of the promise" suggests that God's choice is based on His promise rather than on mere physical descent. In this context, the promise is linked to Isaac, the son of Abraham and Sarah, through whom God's covenant and promise were fulfilled.

Overall, Romans 9:8 underscores the idea that God's chosen people are those who are part of His promise and covenant, emphasizing spiritual lineage and God's sovereign choice over physical ancestry.

 

[jeremiah1five]

There is no "letter of the law," nor is there "spirit of the law," in the NT.

There is only "the letter" which is the law (written code) and which law (written code) kills all who do not obey it perfectly, and
there is only "the Spirit" who is the Holy Spirit who gives life (2 Co 3:6) in his fulfillment of the new covenant promise to write that same law inwardly on "tablets of human hearts, thus providing the believer with love for God's law, which previously he had hated, and with power to keep it, which previously he did not have.

Jesus did not teach the "spirit of the law," rather Jesus as Divine Lawgiver gave new law, "You have heard it said (old law), but I say (new law). . ."
In every case, he added to (gave new) or abrogated law, he did not "reinterpret" law.

No, it's not an "old" Law. He's merely bringing up the Law to the people of the Law and helping them understand GOD'S interpretation because the letter of the Law stated "Thou shalt not kill" and Rabbi's and Scribes and Teachers and priests wrote all kinds of commentaries and invented all kinds of rules and traditions of men to apply those simple four words to the people as teaching from God. The thing about "Corban" is an example.

But what do men still do especially since the destruction of the Jewish Temple?
They write all kinds of commentaries like the rabbi's and scribes and pharisees of old and do the same thing with Scripture to their own hurt. And Gentiles that don't know eat it up as if words from God Himself.
When the two Jewish witnesses of Revelation 11 show up their going to correct a great deal of Gentile Christians teaching and theology Gentile Christians will not like it, call them heretic and false prophets and just may join the rest of the world and kill them.
Then they'll hand out gifts and presents to each other like it's Christmas.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Ah, a works salvation.

SO you have absolutely NO IDEA what "works salvation" even is.

 

[Eleanor]

Post the Scripture that God made covenant with Gentiles as He made covenant with Noah and Abraham. Where does it read in covenant fashion:
9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you; Gen. 9:9.
or
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee Gen. 17:7.
WHERE in the Hebrew Scriptures of Law, Psalms, and Prophets does God say to ANY Gentile "I will establish me covenant between me and thee" (Gentiles)?
Post your Scripture and support your statements.
That's whay YOU think, and you can think whatever leaning on your own understanding leads you to post, but as for me and my house we will serve the LORD, the God of ZIsrael, the racial God, the ethnic God, who chose a Hebrew and made Himself a Jewish people that are His Great Congregation and Church and His Bride:
19 And I will betroth thee unto me for ever;
Yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment,
And in lovingkindness, and in mercies.
20 I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness:
And thou shalt know the LORD.
Hosea 2:19–20.
The "Great Congregation" in the desert at the time of the Tabernacle were Church or God ("called out [ones]), just as God called out His Son out of Egypt and God called out His covenant people Israel out of Egypt. God placed the "middle wall of partition" between covenant Israel and non-covenant Gentiles for God had said, "In Issac shall thy seed be called."
I take Scripture as written. The things I submit for post are historically and biblically correct.

I used to read the Scriptures with a Gentile mindset and interpret the Hebrew Scriptures with a Gentile perspective until the Lord opened my eyes and I began to see as He sees.

Translate: until you bought into the contra-NT theology of dispensationalism, and now deny Gal 3:29, where believing Gentiles are likewise the seed of Abraham.

God is a Covenant God. And God made covenant with the Hebrews and God made covenant with the children of Israel/Jacob, Abraham's grandson. It's a family covenant God made with Abram the Hebrew over all the families of the earth. But even Israel should humble themselves as should Gentile Christians for God said in Deuteronomy:
7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. Dt 7:7–8.
Hebrew Scriptures of Law, Psalms, and Prophets. A Jewish Messiah was Promised, and a Jewish Messiah was sent to the lost sheep of the House of Israel.
Messiah sent His disciples to the lost sheep of the House of Israel.

Almost. . .until Jesus took the kingdom away from Israel and gave it to a people (Gentiles) who would produce its fruiit (Mt 21:43, 8:12, Ro 11:17, Jer 11:16).
Israel has only one destiny now, to be grafted back into the one olive tree of God's people, IF (not "when") they do not persist in unbelief (Ro 11:23), which they have for 2,000 years now and counting.

The New Covenant is made with the House of Israel.

The New Covenant is made with those in Christ who are now the seed of Abraham (Gal 3:29), both Gentile and Jew.

As promised Christ built His Church populated with Jews from the twelve tribes of Israel and for four decades the "ism" of Judaism remained while the Temple stood and everything happening in Israel to the children of Jacob/was seen and interpreted and understood from a Hebrew/Jewish perspective. And why not? IT IS THEIR COVENANT.

Where the majority of this "ism" denied their Messiah, were unchurched (broken off the one olive tree of God's people) by God and replaced with Gentiles (Heb 11).

Your "Hebrew perspective" is not in agreement with the testimony of the NT.
How sad that you abandoned the NT perspective of the living Jesus Christ, for a pre-Jesus Christ perspective.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

Saul is writing to Jewish Christians in the Jewish churches at Rome. It's their covenant and Saul was a Pharisee knowing this.
When Christ returns, He is coming as King of the Jews not King of the Gentiles for God has no covenant with Gentiles. They are all non-Jew, and uncircumcised. IF any Gentiles were there when God made Covenant WITH ABRAHAM they were circumcised. From that day on to receive the blessings of Abraham and HIS COVENANT one had to be circumcised, make vows, offer sacrifices, etc., as contained in the Law.
The New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation are Jewish writing documenting in the gospels Jewish history, culture, covenants, Tabernacle and Temple life, Jewish prophets and their prophecies and religious practices. They were written so that Israel might believe that this Jesus is their long-awaited Messiah and King and Redeemer and Deliverer and Prophet like unto Moses - another Hebrew.

Yes, writing to Jewish Christians who were deeply concerned as to their standing in the Abrahamic Covenant. They needed to know in the face of persecution, excommunication from their synagogues they were on the right track because as the author of Hebrews says in chapter 6 many of them after being enlightened and tasted the heavenly wanted to go back to Judaism, but the author says it is impossible.

Now look who Saul is writing to in his letter to Jewish Christians in the Galatian region: HJe references the Law. Did YOU JEWS receive the Holy Spirit by following the Law or by faith in Messiah Jesus. These Jewish Christians were suffering persecution from their Jewish brethren for their testimony in Christ. Referring back to their father Abraham Saul explains Abraham's faith and that if you have the same faith in God as he did you are his children not only by seed but also by faith for in the Law was no faith. Think it through.

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. Gal. 3:1–7.


The New Covenant writings were written by Jewish Christians (Saul, Peter, James, John, Matthew, etc.), and their letters were sent to Jewish Christians who founded the home churches in Corinth, Ephesus, Philippi, etc., after the split between them and their Messiah who hanged on a tree and the Judaizers who gave them a hard time, maybe even excommunicated them because they couldn't receive how their ZMessiah and king died on a tree which to them was a curse. They stumbled at this stumbling stone.
ALL the content of the New Covenant writings contains extensive recounting of Jewish history, life during Tabernacle and Temple settings, their culture, their religion, their prophets (Isaiah, Joel, Jeremiah, Moses, Abraham, their covenants, totally Jewish in content. If any Gentiles are mentioned, they would first have to be circumcised Gentile proselytes for they would be present in the synagogues when these newborn Jewish Christians returned from Pentecost born-again under the influence of the Holy Spirit and would have heard their testimony of their experiences and an outline of Peter's sermon. 3000 Jews were born-again on the Day of Pentecost. And being that Christ added to His Church daily such as should be saved, if we take 3000 salvations as a median number, then by weeks end 21,000 Jews would have been born-again and filled with the Holy Spirit of Promise as contained in the Mosaic and New Covenant prophecies. Circumcised Gentile proselytes may have been joined to the Abrahamic Covenant, but they were not considered Jew. A Jew is a natural descendant of Abraham. They would still be called Gentile.
God is the One that founded the Hebrew Race with the Abrahamic Covenant. The Hebrew nation was founded by Moses and the children of Jacob/Israel through the giving of the Law and God's placement of a middle wall partition that separated Jew from Gentile. God commanded His Hebrew people to "not mingle with the Gentiles and learn their ways" but Israel did not always obey. So, if you want to call anyone racist that would be God. It's all His doing.

So, you are a Jew/Hebrew? Which tribe?
Because if you're not Hebrew/Jewish then you are not a seed of Abraham. Even if you have faith doesn't miraculously make you Hebrew/Jewish. Those designations are reserved for the children of Israel whom God saved, gave them THEIR Holy Spirit of Promise and baptized them into the Church Christ was building in same fashion as what happened at Pentecost when the founding of the Church Christ promised to build was founded and populated by Jews.

Masel Tov.

Racism is blind. I watch the antisemitic upswell in the world today and shake my head in dismay but in essence how different are you from them? How come you put your own words above those in the holy scriptures? I know that only God can change us and open our eyes. I can't change your heart nor get you to believe that "...if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise."

This is where I must allow you to continue your crusade unabated for there is no good place a conversation like this can go when the truth is lost.

 

[Eleanor]

And the people of God are the Jews.

Nope. . .the people of God are only those who believe in and trust on Jesus Christ and his atoning work.
You have abandoned the gospel.

You mean the New Covenant prophesied and described in Jeremiah 31:31-34? The one in which God makes covenant with the House of Israel (northern kingdom) and the House of Judah (southern kingdom)?

Yes, the one the book of Hebrews states is made with the church.

You know, my mom might write a last will and testament and name certain people in that will, but no one who is not named has any right to claim inclusion after the will is signed, and the Last will and testament of the Promised Messiah, Redeemer, Savior, and King of Israel signed that covenant with His blood and NO ONE not named in that will has any right to anything in that will.
Do you agree?

Nope. . .that is a faulty contra-NT dispensational interpretation. . .which I probably won't waste my time engaging.

 

[jeremiah1five]

No he is not.

This is where the misunderstanding occurs. Paul was addressing the Jewish and the Gentile members in Rome. He was not just addressing the Jews.

Paul penned the book of Romans with the intention of fostering unity among Jewish and Gentile Christians in Rome through the gospel. Additionally, he aspired for the Roman church to serve as a strategic hub for spreading the gospel into Spain (15:22–24). The overarching purpose of proclaiming the gospel is to bring glory to God (11:33–36). Paul expresses a heartfelt desire for the Gentiles to embrace Christianity obediently, with the ultimate aim of honoring the name of Christ (1:5).


Romans 9:8 is part of a larger passage in the Bible where the apostle Paul is discussing the concept of God's sovereign choice in the context of the descendants of Abraham. Here is Romans 9:6-8 (ESV):

"But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but 'Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.' This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring."

In these verses, Paul is explaining that being a physical descendant of Abraham (or Israel) does not automatically guarantee a person's spiritual status as a child of God. Instead, he emphasizes the importance of the promise and God's sovereign choice in determining who belongs to His people.

The reference to "children of the promise" suggests that God's choice is based on His promise rather than on mere physical descent. In this context, the promise is linked to Isaac, the son of Abraham and Sarah, through whom God's covenant and promise were fulfilled.

Overall, Romans 9:8 underscores the idea that God's chosen people are those who are part of His promise and covenant, emphasizing spiritual lineage and God's sovereign choice over physical ancestry.

Here are several scriptural points that suggest the early Church was initially founded by Jews and maintained a substantial Jewish character until at least the destruction of the Temple in AD 70:

1. Day of Pentecost (Acts 2): On the Day of Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit was poured out, the apostles, including Peter, addressed a crowd of Jews gathered in Jerusalem for the feast (Acts 2:5-11). This event marked the beginning of the Jewish Christian Church Christ promised to build, and the initial converts were Jewish.
2. Peter's Leadership: In the early chapters of Acts, Peter emerges as a prominent leader within the Jerusalem Church. His preaching and involvement in significant events, such as the healing of the lame man at the Temple (Acts 3), point to a Jewish context for the early Church.
3. Jerusalem Council (Acts 15): The Jerusalem Council, as recorded in Acts 15 (ca. A.D. 50), addresses the question of whether Gentile converts need to be circumcised and follow the Mosaic law. This council, comprised of apostles and elders, reflects a predominantly Jewish leadership at the heart of the early Jewish Church
4. Paul's Ministry to the Jews: Throughout Paul's missionary journeys, his initial approach was to enter synagogues and engage with his Jewish brethren (Acts 13:14, 14:1, 17:1-2, 18:4, etc.). This reflects a strategy of building on the existing Jewish religious framework to introduce the message of Jesus.
5. Epistles to Jewish Christian Churches: Several of the New Testament epistles, particularly James, 1 Peter, and Hebrews, are addressed to Jewish Christian audiences. These letters assume a familiarity with Jewish traditions, scripture, and the religious context.
6. Paul's Warning in Romans 11:17-24: In Romans 11, Paul uses the analogy of an olive tree to describe the relationship between Jewish and Gentile proselyte believers who joined the Jewish religion .and partook of the blessings of Abraham not its covenant. The Gentile proselytes are depicted as "wild" olive branches grafted onto the cultivated natural olive tree, symbolizing the Jewish root. This imagery teaches the foundational role of Judaism in the early Christian community.
7. Jesus' Commission to the Apostles Before He Ascended (Matthew 28:19-20): While not explicit, Jesus' commission to make disciples of all nations teaches a starting point with a predominantly Jewish group of disciples who would carry out the mission. The apostles, all Jews, played a foundational role in the establishment and expansion of the Jewish Church. It was important to Jesus that the twelve tribes scattered throughout the then-known world be informed that their long-awaited Messiah had come, and that God (Yahweh) has kept His Promise.
8. Jesus Commission to the Apostles while He was here: In the gospels Jesus sent out the twelve to the lost sheep of the House of Israel establishing that their Messiah had come, and God has kept His Promise.

While the early Church had a strong Jewish foundation, it is essential to recognize that the movement quickly expanded to into Gentile lands as born-again Jews who met with the Holy Spirit, heard and outline of Peter's sermon about Jesus, and the 3000 Jews that were saved that one day (not including subsequent days Christ added to His Church until the destruction of the Temple) these Jewish Christians as they would come to be known returned to their homes and synagogues and shared their experiences and many more became saved. But in time there was a split between them and the Judaizers who could not reconcile their Messiah, Redeemer, and King hanged on a cross which they were taught was cursed of God, and so the Jewish Christians began to congregate in their homes as Christianity spread to other Jewish communities and the Jewish Church grew.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Racism is blind. I watch the antisemitic upswell in the world today and shake my head in dismay but in essence how different are you from them? How come you put your own words above those in the holy scriptures? I know that only God can change us and open our eyes. I can't change your heart nor get you to believe that "...if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise."

This is where I must allow you to continue your crusade unabated for there is no good place a conversation like this can go when the truth is lost.

Yes, it's blind. To those that accompany it with hatred.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Nope. . .the people of God are only those who believe in and trust on Jesus Christ and his atoning work.
You have abandoned the gospel.

Yes, the one the book of Hebrews states is made with the church.

Nope. . .that is a faulty contra-NT dispensational interpretation. . .which I probably won't waste my time engaging.

JAMES, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. James 1:1.

The other writings may not be as precise, but when Saul writes "to the Church at Corinth, or Philippi," etc., he's writing to Jewish Christians.

 

[Eleanor]

No, it's not an "old" Law. He's merely bringing up the Law to the people of the Law and helping them understand GOD'S interpretation because the letter of the Law stated "Thou shalt not kill" and Rabbi's and Scribes and Teachers and priests wrote all kinds of commentaries and invented all kinds of rules and traditions of men to apply those simple four words to the people as teaching from God. The thing about "Corban" is an example.

Nope. . .loving your enemies was no part of the written code. That is new law, given by the divine Lawgiver, Jesus Christ, for the new (covenant) order (Heb 9:10).

But what do men still do especially since the destruction of the Jewish Temple?
They write all kinds of commentaries like the rabbi's and scribes and pharisees of old and do the same thing with Scripture to their own hurt. And Gentiles that don't know eat it up as if words from God Himself.
When the two Jewish witnesses of Revelation 11 show up their going to correct a great deal of Gentile Christians teaching and theology Gentile Christians will not like it, call them heretic and false prophets and just may join the rest of the world and kill them.
Then they'll hand out gifts and presents to each other like it's Christmas.

I don't take my doctrine from figurative prophetic riddles (Nu 12:8) subject to more than one interpretation.

 

[Eleanor]

JAMES, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. James 1:1.

The other writings may not be as precise, but when Saul writes "to the Church at Corinth, or Philippi," etc., he's writing to Jewish Christians.

According to Jesus, it was Paul who wrote to the churches of Corinth or Philippi.

Those of the 12 tribes of Israel who believed in Christ were the NT ekklesia (church/assembly), a continuation of the OT ekklesia (assembly, church of Ac 7:38); i.e., the one people of God, the ekklesia of both OT saints and NT saints who believed in Christ, either in person or in the OT promise of seed (Ge 15:5).

 

[jeremiah1five]

SO you have absolutely NO IDEA what "works salvation" even is.

Work. Travail. Exertion. Effort.
In other words with regard to the Lord's salvation any effort, act, work, or exertion in any form performed by the recipient of being saved, or any contribution by the one being saved is a human works salvation which is unbiblical.
In spiritual matters man is dead to God. Lazarus is a perfect example of being brought to life. And while he was dead physically he was totally passive and dormant before the Lord Jesus Christ commanded, "Lazarus, Come Forth!"

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: Jn 11:25.

41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. Jn 11:41.

43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go. Jn 11:43–44.

It is an incontrovertible fact that we as spiritually dead men physically walking are dead to God in our trespasses and sin (Eph. 2:1-2.)

1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Eph 2:1.

The question: "Is repentance needed for salvation?"

And the answer I have given above and give it again here is that NOTHING is needed for salvation. We bring NOTHING to our salvation, we add NOTHING to our salvation. You were dead to God until the Lord said, "Robert, Come Forth!" And instantly you were born-again, baptized by the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ, given all your spiritual gifts and a call to service to God is imparted with the salvation.
And it was IMPOSSIBLE to disobey such a command from anyone God calls in such a way as lazarus was called of Christ. and from from Almighty, Creator God.

Everyone God calls to salvation stays in salvation and is never lost. He/she cannot never separate him or her self from God. Once saved (born from above, born-again) the person remains saved eternally and not even physical death can separate them and us from the love of God which acts towards us through the Holy Spirit and results in salvation. If God loves 'you', God will save 'you.' If God doesn't love 'you', God will not save 'you.' It's that simple.

24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
25 to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. Jude 24–25.

No man - not even ourselves = can be plucked out of God's hands nor out of Christ's hands. Our eternal security is secure. He's ordained our steps and He has made a creative act towards us that we should walk in those ordained steps and we shall never fall nor shall we ever fail.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Eph 2:10.