Hebrews 6

[Eleanor]

@Eleanor @Arial @GeneZ @DJT_47 @jeremiah1five @civic @360watt

Include the first 3 verses to see in context of the message being given that there is no need to go through all that a born again believer went through in the beginning when he was saved. If they fall away, they are to repent and move on to perfection.

Hebrews 6:1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned. 9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

So it is about moving on to perfection for why a saved believer need not go through all that again for why it is impossible & thus not necessary.

If they do not repent in moving on to perfection, then 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 applies as what is burned off of the earth of the thickets and the briars, so are the works, wood, stubble, and hay which defile the temple of God on that foundation that will get burned off, but the earth having that life giving rain just as the foundation laid by Jesus Christ remains is why the believer is still saved but at risk of dying when left behind.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

The context for Heb 6:4-6 begins at Heb 3:7.

 

[civic]

They received the Holy Spirit after the resurrection (Jn 20:22-23).

just like the OT saints did.

 

[Carbon]

If we continue in willful sin we will die in our sin because we have done despite upon the Spirit of grace and have counted the blood of the covenant as nothing.

What?

 

[Eleanor]

I'm speaking to the degree of persons the Spirit was poured out upon at one time, i.e. examples in Acts.

What do you think?

I don''t understand "salvation by degree."
You are either saved or not.

Are you referring to the Christian life of salvation, where
salvation past = new birth
salvation present = sanctification
salvation future = resurrection?

 

[Arial]

There is true faith and there is counterfeit faith (the tares).
The definition of NT apostasy is falling away from faith, in which case it would be a counterfeit faith.

How can one fall away from faith if it is a counterfeit faith? There was no faith to fall away from---it was a professed faith but not true faith, and that it was counterfeit was made visible by their departing from their profession of faith.

To make clear they understand, that if they return to Judaism, there is no happy compromise between Judaism and Christianity,
as in the accommodation of the Jerusalem Council for the provinces of Syria and Cilicia regarding the eating of meat with blood in it.
for in reality, they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

I am not going to go over that for the umpteenth time. It is pure conjecture that is supported in your mind but not actually in the scriptures. If that is the point of the book of Hebrews, and what and who it is addressing, what purpose would any of it have to do with Gentiles or us today who have no intention of turning to Judaism. If you want to continue to stick to your view, fine, as long as you get the actual message of perseverance.

NT perseverance in the faith is remaining in the faith, as distinguished from apostasizing from the faith.

NT perseverance in the faith is guaranteed for all who are truly in the faith, in Christ. They can't leave it and do not want to for they are sealed in Him. So perseverance in the NT means the same thing that "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" means. It means the same thing as continue in doing what is good and right according to God's instructions, and don't be discouraged in doing so when the road gets rough. When we face all those things we are told we will face. His seeming delay in coming, troubles, trials, persecutions.

One would forfeit public practice and public profession of their faith, but one would not abandon belief in Jesus Christ for the remission of their sin and right standing with God, justified and adopted

That does not answer what I asked. What I presented is exactly what the recipients of Hebrews were facing and exactly why they needed encouragement through the reminders of the sufficiency of Christ and the promises of the future kingdom at His second coming. In other words, "look at all this concerning Christ and your salvation and stand your ground." As in Eph 6.

Not too sure what the need for mitigating the severe warning of Heb 3:7-4:33 is about, but a sever warning is there, nonetheless.

I am not mitigating it. It is biblically supportive (THEOLOGY!) background for all that the writer is presenting as the basis for all that he says in the WHOLE letter. He is comparing things they are familiar with to paint a vivid picture of what it means to let go of Christ. And the situation they were in made it safer to do that than to persevere. Not that they would do that as true believers, but to NOT LOSE HEART.

 

[Carbon]

@Eleanor @Arial @GeneZ @DJT_47 @jeremiah1five @civic @360watt

Include the first 3 verses to see in context of the message being given that there is no need to go through all that a born again believer went through in the beginning when he was saved. If they fall away, they are to repent and move on to perfection.

Hebrews 6:1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned. 9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

So it is about moving on to perfection for why a saved believer need not go through all that again for why it is impossible & thus not necessary.

If they do not repent in moving on to perfection, then 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 applies as what is burned off of the earth of the thickets and the briars, so are the works, wood, stubble, and hay which defile the temple of God on that foundation that will get burned off, but the earth having that life giving rain just as the foundation laid by Jesus Christ remains is why the believer is still saved but at risk of dying when left behind.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

 

[Arial]

That was your objective. To get me angry. I know that.

I am concerned to get to truth which you appear to be not concerned with.

What you think you know about me is incorrect. I was simply addressing what I consider a false teaching. One more insult and I will start reporting you. The forum is not meant to be people attacking each other.

 

[Carbon]

The willful sin passage of Hebrews 10:26 gets abused.

A lot.

I've heard preachers use this to scare the hell out of people, and in churches that held to OSAS or PotS, and made the people feel like they could lose their salvation. The "altars" were full of people after the sermon.

What it is warning about is the Jews returning to the Law, and apostatizing from Christ. That is a willful sin, and when they do there is "no longer sacrifice for sins" since the sacrificial system had been done away with in the propitiatory sacrifice of Christ and it is invalid. This is showing Christ is the only way now.

Who?

 

[Eleanor]

How can one fall away from faith if it is a counterfeit faith?

The same way anything is called "counterfeit," it looks like the real thing, but it is not.
One can fall away from a faith that looks like the real thing, but is not.

There was no faith to fall away from---it was a professed faith but not true faith, and that it was counterfeit was made visible by their departing from their profession of faith.

There was counterfeit faith to fall away from.

I am not going to go over that for the umpteenth time. It is pure conjecture that is supported in your mind but not actually in the scriptures. If that is the point of the book of Hebrews, and what and who it is addressing, what purpose would any of it have to do with Gentiles or us today

Warnings against apostasy are one of the ways/means God preserves the elect.

 

[Arial]

So that's your issue, you want it to be positive instead of negative?

Grab at whatever you can I guess. It isn't about what I want, it is about what the writer of Hebrews is doing. How many times in the book does he call what he is doing exhortation? How many times does he encourage them and strengthen them? They were in trouble! They were suffering! They were being assailed by doubts in the midst of it! Has that ever happened to you? And in the midst of those doubts was also the cry "I believe, help my unbelief." Not a doubt leading to apostasy, but a doubt needing encouragement and comfort. A not being able to see the forest for the trees. Needing someone to pull you back from the close up perspective and see the whole forest, the wide angle view.

The focus you are giving it is like the preacher standing up accusing the brethren, threatening them with hell for the things they do. The writer of Hebrews is like the preacher who stands up and presents Christ and His righteousness, and His promises, and the safety from condemnation that is in Him. Does that message also come with stern warnings? WHY OF COURSE it does.

 

[Carbon]

Why would it be easier if it were backward?

Are you serious?

 

[Arial]

One can fall away from a faith that looks like the real thing, but is not.

Which of course is not faith so it is not faith they fell away from.

There was counterfeit faith to fall away from.

Counterfeit faith is not faith so it was not faith they fell aways from. Do you maybe ever wonder if that is why all the IFS are in those Hebrew 6 verses. That it is not actually saying anyone did or could do those things, and the reason they can't is because it is impossible as it would be like crucifying Jesus again?

Warnings against apostasy are one of the ways/means God preserves the elect.

Is it? Why would He warn us about something that is impossible----for the elect to not persevere? He gives us instructions is what He does.

 

[GeneZ]

I understand that passage perfectly. It is self explanatory. There was a dispute that arose because some believing Jews including some believing Pharisees, were saying the Gentiles, in order to be saved, must also adhere to certain Jewish religious rituals. It was dealing with the sufficiency of Christ. And though the book of Hebrews also expounds on that, it does not follow that it is these people in Acts that the writer of Hebrews was addressing. Which seems to be what you are saying. (Verse 25 is referring back to the dispute of Acts 15:1-19) And the vow Paul took was the Nazarite vow (Numbers 6).

You completely miss the point as to why I mentioned that incident with Paul.

What Paul faced? It was why Hebrews 6:4-6 was written! He was right in the middle of it.
He was told to go to the temple and to perform a ceremony that took about a week to finish,
that ended in the sacrifice of an expensive calf he was told to pay for.

You are failing to make that connection.

The ones who told Paul to make an offering in the Temple? Those Jewish believers?
That is whom Hebrews 6:4-6 speaking to!
Those were the people with the problem.

Jesus became the Atonement to end all animal sacrifices. His atonement that all the animal sacrifices were designed to be used only as teaching tools to teach the principle of what was to become the Cross!

When these RELIGIOUS Jewish believers insisted on continuing to offer animal sacrifices for their sins? They in doing so,were refusing
to accept the atonement of the Cross! Its was a mockery of the Cross. To offer another animal sacrifice was in effect crucifying Jesus all
over again because of the intent of the animal sacrifice.

Those Jewish believers kept refusing to repent when the truth was given to them. It had become impossible to bring them back from where they had gotten to in their wrong thinking, to repent!

The writer of Hebrews was telling the faithful Jewish believers to stop trying to reason with these hard headed religious fools, and to
seek instead to go on in maturing in Christ.

Hebrews 6:4-6 is not about losing ones salvation as many are told. Its about Christians who get locked into their own arrogant religious thinking
refusing to listen to reason that would have led them to repentance.

Paul and the Temple incident I mentioned was to show the far gone state of how the Jerusalem was living in apostasy. Why Hebrews 6:4-6 was written!

It does not have to be only the Jewish believers back then. Today we have Catholics who live by dogma that makes mockery of the Cross of Christ as well.

Other denominations can be just as hard headed in refusing to repent, but nothing as so severe as the church in Jerusalem was doing.

And, keep in mind. Hebrews was written shortly before Jerusalem and the Temple were destroyed by Rome in 70AD. God judged their apostasy.

grace and peace ...............

 

[GeneZ]

And saved Jews do not offer sacrifices in the temple, and neither do unsaved Jews anymore.

Why is that so? Because the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD by Rome.

There were Jewish believers back then that understood the Cross and would no longer step into the Temple.
It was the religious Jewish believers who were the problem. Instead of seeking to walk in the power of God's grace
as Christians should? As to grow in taking in the Word to think the Mind of Christ with? They remained zealous for the Law.

I grew up Jewish and use the fact with Jews that they have no means to be good Jews today without the sacrifices for nearly 2000 years.
At present they can only come up with lame excuses. I keep telling them God made the provision by the Cross, and there is no longer any need for blood sacrifices!

For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law,​

he took the blood of calves and goats, with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and​

sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, saying, “This is the blood of the​

covenant which God has commanded you.” Then likewise he sprinkled with blood​

both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry. And according to the law​

almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is​

no remission." Hebrews 9:19-22​

Because of that factor being in the Law there are Jews today who can't wait to rebuild the Temple. And, behind the scenes are planning to do so.

...........

 

[Eleanor]

Grab at whatever you can I guess. It isn't about what I want, it is about what the writer of Hebrews is doing. How many times in the book does he call what he is doing exhortation? How many times does he encourage them and strengthen them? They were in trouble! They were suffering! They were being assailed by doubts in the midst of it! Has that ever happened to you? And in the midst of those doubts was also the cry "I believe, help my unbelief." Not a doubt leading to apostasy, but a doubt needing encouragement and comfort. A not being able to see the forest for the trees. Needing someone to pull you back from the close up perspective and see the whole forest, the wide angle view.
The focus you are giving it is like the preacher standing up accusing the brethren, threatening them with hell for the things they do. The writer of Hebrews is like the preacher who stands up and presents Christ and His righteousness, and His promises, and the safety from condemnation that is in Him. Does that message also come with stern warnings? WHY OF COURSE it does.

I'm interested in precisely what the texts present, I have no need to trim their sail with my jib.

I don't really see the problem in taking texts as they are presented, warnings, blessings and all.

 

[ChristB4us]

The context for Heb 6:4-6 begins at Heb 3:7.

Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end. 7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, 8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: 9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

Hardly, as that reference is the call of the gospel being presented for why sinners are not to harden their hearts, resisting the witness of the Holy Ghost from citing Christ's words that Christ has risen from the dead & has ascended to God the Father in Heaven where Christ is the Head.

Hebrews 6:1-9 is about what the believer does after salvation by moving unto perfection for why there is no need to renew themselves again should they ever fall away.

Hebrews 6:1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

 

[GeneZ]

Of course I see that. And I have not said otherwise. My question is why are you making the book of Hebrews about Paul being a Jew?

Someone who demands that others back up their words ought to first back up their own words.

I understand that passage perfectly. It is self explanatory. There was a dispute that arose because some believing Jews including some believing Pharisees, were saying the Gentiles, in order to be saved, must also adhere to certain Jewish religious rituals. It was dealing with the sufficiency of Christ. And though the book of Hebrews also expounds on that, it does not follow that it is these people in Acts that the writer of Hebrews was addressing. Which seems to be what you are saying. (Verse 25 is referring back to the dispute of Acts 15:1-19) And the vow Paul took was the Nazarite vow (Numbers 6).

Not all sacrifices were made for atonement. Some were simply offerings to the Lord, as was the Nazarite vow. I suggest you study the book of Numbers. And it was not God who almost killed Paul but unbelieving Jews.

That is pure conjecture that those are the people Hebrews is addressed to, for which you give no support. You need a good study Bible and to familiarize yourself with book prefaces so you know the circumstances that existed that inspired the letters to be written and to whom. I am not going to do that work for you. People who have genuinely been enlightened, tasted, etc. in faith in Christ and His person and work, are not zealous for the old covenant law, they do not lack repentance, and though they may be stubborn in being highly religious, that makes it questionable as to whether they have actually understood the gospel of salvation by grace through faith, or they may just be very young in Christ.

And saved Jews do not offer sacrifices in the temple, and neither do unsaved Jews anymore.

If you read that carefully you will see that you contradicted yourself when you add your own words, "Continue on in maturing in Christ." First Hebrew's audience is "apostate believers" so you say (which the entire NT and the very character of God, and also the very book of Hebrews, shows to be an impossibility as they are sealed in Christ, and Christ will lose none that the Father gives Him)and then the audience of Hebrews is non apostate believers.

This part only partially addressed.

When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: ​

“You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and ​

all of them are zealous for the law.​

All the Law!

Hebrews 6:4-6 says that some were crucifying Jesus afresh and putting him on public display as a mockery.
Paul was simply following a Nazarite vow you say? It had to have animal sacrifices to do that.

And, the Nazarite vow involved animal sacrifices! While all were taken care of on the Cross once and for all!

At the end of their vow, the Nazirite brings three sacrificial offerings to the Temple in Jerusalem. ​

The first is a ewe for a chatat (sin offering), the second is a lamb for an olah (elevation offering), ​

and finally a ram as a shelamim (peace offering) along with a basket of matzah and grain and drink ​

offerings." ​

​

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazirite​

 

[ChristB4us]

If we continue in willful sin we will die in our sin because we have done despite upon the Spirit of grace and have counted the blood of the covenant as nothing.

What is that willful sin when read in context?
Below is the danger awaiting every Catholic that continues to take the Eucharist as an offering for sin being made present again to receive again for salvation as if receiving the Holy Spirit "again" to be sent out to the world as if "new believers" in Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

This sin is knowing there remain no more sacrifice for sins because you have the Holy Ghost as Witness & therefore you are saved, but yet continue to participate in the Mass as to atone for sins since last Mass, is an offense to God for why He will judge His people, the Catholics, for treating the blood of His Son as if on par with the blood of goats & bulls that it bears repeating; and not just every year but as often as weekly if not on special occasions also.

Catholics are not in danger of losing salvation, because they are His people, but they are in danger of getting stripes from the Father for insulting the blood of the Covenant and therefore at risk of being left behind when the Bridegroom comes at the pre great tribulation rapture event.

Hebrews 12:1-11 KJV Note Hebrews 12:6 with Luke 12:46-48 in Luke 12:40-49 KJV for why stripes will be coming on the saved left behind.

May the Lord help you see the truth what that willful sin is in regards to knowing there is no more sacrifice for sins after salvation.
This is why in relations to the topic of this thread is about moving on to perfection for no need to be saved again if we should fall away.
Include the first 3 verses to see in context of the message being given that there is no need to go through all that a born again believer went through in the beginning when he was saved. If they fall away, they are to repent and move on to perfection.

Hebrews 6:1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned. 9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

So it is about moving on to perfection for why a saved believer need not go through all that again for why it is impossible & thus not necessary.

If they do not repent in moving on to perfection, then 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 applies as what is burned off of the earth of the thickets and the briars, so are the works, wood, stubble, and hay which defile the temple of God on that foundation that will get burned off, but the earth having that life giving rain just as the foundation laid by Jesus Christ remains is why the believer is still saved but at risk of dying when left behind.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

 

[Arial]

What Paul faced? It was why Hebrews 6:4-6 was written! He was right in the middle of it.
He was told to go to the temple and to perform a ceremony that took about a week to finish,
that ended in the sacrifice of an expensive calf he was told to pay for.

Show me with something besides your opinion and supposition that that is what Hebrews 6 is addressing? That Paul was right in the middle of it? Can you provide any historical evidence? Any scriptural evidence that is not just you quoting a scripture with your presuppositions superimposed over it?

What was the vow that Paul was making in Acts 21? I have told you, check it out in Numbers 6. Was it a sacrifice for atonement? What was Jesus's sacrifice of Himself for? Was Paul doing what he did in order to be saved? If not, why was he doing it?

You are failing to make that connection.

That is because there isn't one.

The ones who told Paul to make an offering in the Temple? Those Jewish believers?
That is whom Hebrews 6:4-6 speaking to!
Those were the people with the problem.

How do you know this? Does Hebrews say it was?

Jesus became the Atonement to end all animal sacrifices. His atonement that all the animal sacrifices were designed to be used only as teaching tools to teach the principle of what was to become the Cross!

Was Paul seeking atonement when he made the sacrifice of the Nazarite vow?

When these RELIGIOUS Jewish believers insisted on continuing to offer animal sacrifices for their sins? They in doing so,were refusing
to accept the atonement of the Cross! Its was a mockery of the Cross. To offer another animal sacrifice was in effect crucifying Jesus all
over again because of the intent of the animal sacrifice.

The animal sacrifices were ongoing until the destruction of the temple in 70 a.d. and the loss of the priesthood line. Those still adhering to the Sinai covenant and its sacrifices were not believing Jews, they were unbelieving Jews. The sacrifices that they offered were not crucifying Jesus again for they had never accepted His sacrifice in the first place. Those to whom Hebrews was written were not even in Jerusalem. And they were believers. The most likely place according to scholars of such things, was Italy. And they were not sacrificing animals. Hebrews does not say they were.

Those Jewish believers kept refusing to repent when the truth was given to them. It had become impossible to bring them back from where they had gotten to in their wrong thinking, to repent!

There is no such thing as a believer who does not repent. Belief is repentance. From unbelief.

The writer of Hebrews was telling the faithful Jewish believers to stop trying to reason with these hard headed religious fools, and to
seek instead to go on in maturing in Christ.

Where exactly does Hebrews say that?

Hebrews 6:4-6 is not about losing ones salvation as many are told. Its about Christians who get locked into their own arrogant religious thinking
refusing to listen to reason that would have led them to repentance.

If they are believers they are repentant. There is nothing in Hebrews to suggest that they were locked into their own arrogant religious thinking. You are confusing the repentance that leads to salvation---which is turning from unbelief to belief---with repentance of outward and inward sins that are dealt with through sanctification. In any case there is nothing in Hebrews that supports what you say. Nothing.

Paul and the Temple incident I mentioned was to show the far gone state of how the Jerusalem was living in apostasy. Why Hebrews 6:4-6 was written!

Paul was not apostate. You misunderstand the incident. And unbelieving Jews were not apostate. How could they leave what they never believed in the first place? (And if fact the whole kerfuffle that surrounded Paul in Acts 21 was about unbelieving Jews accusing Paul of being apostate from the Jewish religion and teaching apostasy). That is not why Hebrews 6 was written.

It does not have to be only the Jewish believers back then. Today we have Catholics who live by dogma that makes mockery of the Cross of Christ as well.

Other denominations can be just as hard headed in refusing to repent, but nothing as so severe as the church in Jerusalem was doing.

Which seems to be the real thrust of what you say, but you do not have to twist the book of Hebrews in order to support it. And Hebrews was not written to the church in Jerusalem or about the church in Jerusalem. Historical evidence shows this.

 

[Arial]

I'm interested in precisely what the texts present, I have no need to trim their sail with my jib.

I don't really see the problem in taking texts as they are presented, warnings, blessings and all.

ok