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Hebrews 6

Carbon

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Hebrews 6:
4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. 7 For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and produces vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8 but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

If you are interested I am curious how you understand this passage.

Or anyone actually. This could be a great discussion.
 
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Hebrews 6:
4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. 7 For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and produces vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8 but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.


If you are interested I am curious how you understand this passage.

Or anyone actually. This could be a great discussion.
It goes to the whole book of Hebrews, which is addressed it seems to newly professing Christian Hebrews who were being tempted to revert to Judaism, or to Judaize the gospel.

The book is to persuade them not to fall away (apostasize) from their profession of faith, wherein there are five warnings scattered through
chps 1:12, Heb 6:4-6 being the third one.

They are reminded in Heb 3:7-4:12 of their ancestors' failure, because of unbelief, to go into Canaan, the promised rest from their enemies, and God's judgment on that rebellion (Nu 14), wherein because of it they would never be allowed to enter into God's promised rest in Canaan, and would die in the wilderness.
The penman of Hebrews is reminding these new Christians of what will happen to them if, after being introduced to the experience of the gospel, they choose to reject it by turning away from it. There will be no second chance, just as there was no second chance at Canaan. There will be only the fearful judgment of God, as there was at Canaan.
 
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It goes to the whole book of Hebrews, which is addressed it seems to newly professing Christian Hebrews who were being tempted to revert to Judaism, or to Judaize the gospel.

The book is to persuade them not to fall away (apostasize) from their profession of faith, wherein there are five warnings scattered through
chps 1:12, Heb 6:4-6 being the third one.

They are reminded in Heb 3:7-4:12 of their ancestors' failure, because of unbelief, to go into Canaan, the promised rest from their enemies, and God's judgment on that rebellion (Nu 14), wherein because of it they would never be allowed to enter into God's promised rest in Canaan, and would die in the wilderness.
The penman of Hebrews is reminding these new Christians of what will happen to them if, after being introduced to the experience of the gospel, they choose to reject it by turning away from it. There will be no second chance, just as there was no second chance at Canaan. There will be only the fearful judgment of God, as there was at Canaan.
Nice!

So, You agree Ch 6 here is not teaching one can lose salvation?
 
Hebrews 6:
4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. 7 For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and produces vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8 but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.


If you are interested I am curious how you understand this passage.

Or anyone actually. This could be a great discussion.

So-- to begin with..

These have been enlightened.. tasted the heavenly gift.. partakers of the Holy Spirit.. tasted the Good word and powers of the age to come.

So then it is safe to call them converted believers.

Now the book of Hebrews.. when it is talking sacrifice for sins to followers of Judaism.. what kind of sacrifice is this?

It's the sacrifice primarily of bulls and goats.

So .. fall away here... does not mean 'lose eternal life'

At some point almost all believers 'fall away' ie.. struggle in their walk. We are not perfect.. we fall.. then try and get back up.

So.. they were restored to repentance at salvation. They were forgiven eternally at salvation. They can't put Christ back on the cross to save them again.

Because He has taken the sacrifice of bulls and goats and sheep.. and become the once for all sacrifice.. the ultimate lamb. So.. a believer is eternally secure.. cannot lose salvation. This verse is saying a struggling believer can't go and put Christ back on the cross to forgive them again.. because it is already done.

The cursing and near to being burned.. is discipline and rebuke for the believer. Not removal of eternal life.. or 'never had salvation to begin with'
 
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So-- to begin with..
I see so much wrong with this. But thanks for sharing.
These have been enlightened.. tasted the heavenly gift.. partakers of the Holy Spirit.. tasted the Good word and powers of the age to come.

So then it is safe to call them converted believers.
No, it's not. There is nothing there to indicate they are or were converted (Saved).
Now the book of Hebrews.. when it is talking sacrifice for sins to followers of Judaism.. what kind of sacrifice is this?

It's the sacrifice primarily of bulls and goats.

So .. fall away here... does not mean 'lose eternal life'
Well, you are right, they cannot lose eternal life, because they never had it.
The book is teaching the superiority of Christ and using the OT sacrifices showing He fulfilled them. They are types and shadows.
At some point almost all believers 'fall away' ie.. struggle in their walk. We are not perfect.. we fall.. then try and get back up.
What do you mean by fall away?
Believers do not fall away, they may backslide, but not fall away.
So.. they were restored to repentance at salvation. They were forgiven eternally at salvation. They can't put Christ back on the cross to save them again.

Because He has taken the sacrifice of bulls and goats and sheep.. and become the once for all sacrifice.. the ultimate lamb. So.. a believer is eternally secure.. cannot lose salvation. This verse is saying a struggling believer can't go and put Christ back on the cross to forgive them again.. because it is already done.

The cursing and near to being burned.. is discipline and rebuke for the believer. Not removal of eternal life.. or 'never had salvation to begin with'
 
I see so much wrong with this. But thanks for sharing.

No, it's not. There is nothing there to indicate they are or were converted (Saved).

Well, you are right, they cannot lose eternal life, because they never had it.
The book is teaching the superiority of Christ and using the OT sacrifices showing He fulfilled them. They are types and shadows.

What do you mean by fall away?
Believers do not fall away, they may backslide, but not fall away

I see so much wrong with this. But thanks for sharing.

No, it's not. There is nothing there to indicate they are or were converted (Saved).

Well, you are right, they cannot lose eternal life, because they never had it.
The book is teaching the superiority of Christ and using the OT sacrifices showing He fulfilled them. They are types and shadows.

What do you mean by fall away?
Believers do not fall away, they may backslide, but not fall away.

How is it that they never had it with the tasting of the heavenly gift etc. ?

And if they never had it.. what are they falling away from?

So here we go.. with someone who has partaken of the Holy Ghost.. tasted the powers to come.. etc.. and being called not saved.

Classic example of what calvinists do man!

(sigh)
 
How is it that they never had it with the tasting of the heavenly gift etc. ?
What is tasting? I believe tasting is them participating in the Lord's supper. Not all who participate are saved.
Classic example of what calvinists do man!

(sigh)
Discussing these things is an example of what Christians should do. Debating, if done the right way is a good thing. Iron sharpens iron.
 
What is tasting? I believe tasting is them participating in the Lord's supper. Not all who participate are saved.

Discussing these things is an example of what Christians should do. Debating, if done the right way is a good thing. Iron sharpens iron.
Alright, well in Hebrews there is the earlier context of talking about babes in Christ.. to go on to maturity. No longer babes, leaving the elementary principles of Christ etc..

This is about believers going on to maturity.
Hebrew believers.

In this same context we go on to Hebrews 6. It's about believers going on to maturity. So the believer who falls away...should not go back to elementary principles of repentance from dead works... But onto maturity.

They can't get a sheep, bull or goat to please God. Jesus is the ultimate lamb. He has done the job.. He has saved the believer eternally. The Hebrew believer needs to go on in faithfulness, not think they have to sacrifice an animal or get saved again.
 
Agreed. . .but if those professing Hebrew Christians apostasize, they would only be demonstrating that they were never saved in the first place.
Not true.
Christians become saved but come under Arminianism heresy until they come to the knowledge of the truth.
In Hebrews 6 they were “enlightened.”
 
Not true.
Christians become saved but come under Arminianism heresy until they come to the knowledge of the truth.
In Hebrews 6 they were “enlightened.”
Nice try neither Calvinism or Arminianism is heresy. Both are considered orthodoxy within Christendom.
 
Nice try neither Calvinism or Arminianism is heresy. Both are considered orthodoxy within Christendom.
I don’t consider Arminianism as orthodox (straight praise) but heretical.
If 50 million people say a wrong thing it’s still a wrong thing. — Al Einstein.
 
I don’t consider Arminianism as orthodox (straight praise) but heretical.
If 50 million people say a wrong thing it’s still a wrong thing. — Al Einstein.
May I ask why? In what ways?
 
May I ask why? In what ways?
The Synod at Dort held over 150 meetings with the Remonstrants. In the end the five points of Arminius were rejected and the Heidelburg and Belgic Confessions were upheld.
I hold to that.
 
The Synod at Dort held over 150 meetings with the Remonstrants. In the end the five points of Arminius were rejected and the Heidelburg and Belgic Confessions were upheld.
I hold to that.
That doesn't make Arminians heretics.
 
That doesn't make Arminians heretics.
The word "heresy" is defined as "choice."
Here's how it works:

It is impossible for God to lie.

9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 1 Jn 5:9–11.

EVERYONE who does not believe the Word of God concerning Himself, His Son, His Holy Spirit and the record of ALL the teaching of Scripture is in effect calling God a liar. Christians do that with their misunderstanding of the Doctrines of Christ [the Doctrines of the Spirit who Authored the Scriptures.] That refers to the Word of TRUTH. The Scriptures. And you can see the various beliefs here at this forum and other forums and message boards, all the You Tube teachings and all the false churches and everyone who hold the truth in unrighteousness. Every wind of doctrine that is not Bible is in effect calling God a liar.

Let's suppose Peter is relating to the people, his hearers, what happen when Jesus fed the 5,000 with a two-fish meal deal. He is relating the truth of what happen at that event. Then, someone in the crowd steps up, interrupts Peter and says, "Wait a minute! I was there. That's not what happen. There were only 50 people there and the disciples had a big basket of bread and being fishermen had a long string of fish on the line or net."

What this individual did was introduce "choice" to the minds of the people hearing Peter. That is the nature of heresy. And that's what the Remonstrants did. They introduced "choice" to the minds of the Church in Holland and beyond regarding the doctrine of salvation.

In Scripture the number ONE is associated with God. There is only ONE God.
The number two represents that there is another, someone or something besides the number ONE.
That's what the Remonstrants did. They introduced another doctrine of salvation. And now Arminianism is the predominant teaching in the Church.

It is the same with regard to TRUTH. There is only ONE truth. God says what He means and means what He says. Our responsibility is to find out what He means when He says a thing. But falsehood, lie, shows itself as there being another "truth." And that in and of itself is a lie. When God said, "Thou shalt have no other gods before thee" he means only one thing. Thou shalt have no other gods before thee.
No two-ways about it.
 
Nice!

So, You agree Ch 6 here is not teaching one can lose salvation?
Hebrews 6 clearly warns that one can lose their salvation. In that text, it was a warning to the newly converted Jews which can also apply likewise to us today if we turn from or denounce Christ after being converted.

Also look at Acts 8:9-24, and Simon the sorcerer who was converted but because he wanted to purchase the power of God that he saw demonstrated by the apostles through the laying on of their hands, he was told to repent or perish.
 
Hebrews 6 clearly warns that one can lose their salvation. In that text, it was a warning to the newly converted Jews which can also apply likewise to us today if we turn from or denounce Christ after being converted.

Also look at Acts 8:9-24, and Simon the sorcerer who was converted but because he wanted to purchase the power of God that he saw demonstrated by the apostles through the laying on of their hands, he was told to repent or perish.
Scripture no where teaches a believer can lose their salvation.
 
Hebrews 6 clearly warns that one can lose their salvation. In that text, it was a warning to the newly converted Jews which can also apply likewise to us today if we turn from or denounce Christ after being converted.

Also look at Acts 8:9-24, and Simon the sorcerer who was converted but because he wanted to purchase the power of God that he saw demonstrated by the apostles through the laying on of their hands, he was told to repent or perish.
Or was their faith counterfeit (Mt 7:22-23), and as in the tares?
 
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