Hebrews 6

[GeneZ]

Show me with something besides your opinion and supposition that that is what Hebrews 6 is addressing?

Paul's example was a clear presentation of the corruption of Jewish legalism that was being made manifest in the Jerusalem church
at that time. They were not keen on growing in the grace and truth, as they should have been in Christ.

Instead, they were zealous for the Law. Its says thousands were!

When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, ​

how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law." Acts 21:20​

You do not discern the problem with that?

Here is how that church should have been....

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law." Galatians 5:18​

When Galatians 5:18 happens you find yourself walking in a spiritual 6th sense. It will be painful at times as the demonic realm wishes
to resist your advancing. But if you persevere you will find yourself being led in to discovering more and more good teachings that you
never knew existed. Truth that transforms your soul a bit at a time, over time.

In contrast to Galatians 5:18, the Church in Jerusalem was no better than a how the Vatican tyrannized Catholic is today. Their apostate
dogma over rode the Word of God... Yet, while claiming it is the word of God.

grace and peace ..................

 

[GeneZ]

Am I losing out on blessings because I don't believe the same thing you do about the book of Hebrews?

No.. because you cut off finding out why.

You stopped the process dead in its tracks that could have led to understanding.

In spite of your attitude I am persisting in clarifying what it is you refused to reason with.
Why? The love of Christ.

 

[HIM]

It is all in reference to apostasy of Heb 2:1.

No it is being stated in context to which it is stated. That would be included. But Sin is sin. Which includes all and any transgression done despite unto the spirit of grace.

 

[Eleanor]

No it is being stated in context to which it is stated. That would be included. But Sin is sin. Which includes all and any transgression done despite unto the spirit of grace.

The context of all of Hebrews is one thing; i.e., apostasy, from 2:1 to 12:25.

 

[Arial]

No.. because you cut off finding out why.

No I didn't. You just got all ansty and demanding. Have I continued? Yes I have. But one thing that is very disconcerting is when someone presents a view, as you did, and someone else comes along and shows from scripture where that view may be entirely unsoundly arrived at; then the one who was opposed, instead of addressing what the other said just continues relentlessly repeating their original view, over and over again. No consideration for what the other person said whatsoever. Mainly, I am convinced, because they can find no scriptural way to refute what was said. And for someone to second guess themselves, or ever acknowledge that another person who disagrees with them has a valid point (even if they don't agree with it!!!) is I guess on forums considered a cardinal sin.

So when people say they come to forums to learn, they very seldom mean it.

In spite of your attitude I am persisting in clarifying what it is you refused to reason with.

I most certainly did reason with what you said. You just didn't like what I said and refused to consider all reason as my reasoning soundly disproved what you were saying.

Why? The love of Christ.

Well, I'll keep looking for the love of Christ in your posts. So far----

 

[Eleanor]

. . . . . .Well, I'll keep looking for the love of Christ in your posts. So far----

 

[Arial]

Paul's example was a clear presentation of the corruption of Jewish legalism that was being made manifest in the Jerusalem church
at that time. They were not keen on growing in the grace and truth, as they should have been in Christ.

The recipients of Hebrews weren't in the Jerusalem church. And I would have to check the timeline to see if any of the Hebrews possible dates of writing align with what was going on in Acts 21 but I would bet my last dollar that you didn't bother to before you said that.

Instead, they were zealous for the Law. Its says thousands were!

When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law." Acts 21:20
You do not discern the problem with that?

This had to do with what is said in v 21 (the rest of the sentence) and they have been told about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or walk according to our customs.

Which Paul was not doing. Paul did not have an issue with Jews being circumcised, he had Timothy circumcised in order to avoid conflict. Or the customs which does not include the sacrifice of atonement. (That is not a custom. Customs would be feast days and such.) The issue Paul had was with anything other than Christ and Him crucified beging siad as necessary for salvation. And there is nothing in Heb 6 that suggests this was the issue or certainly not the sole issue of the letter. Those passages are prefaced with big IF"S my friend. Not with "because you's" or "since you's".

When Galatians 5:18 happens you find yourself walking in a spiritual 6th sense. It will be painful at times as the demonic realm wishes
to resist your advancing. But if you persevere you will find yourself being led in to discovering more and more good teachings that you
never knew existed. Truth that transforms your soul a bit at a time, over time.

That sounds very non-denominational, charismatic, word of faith, willy nilly doctrinally, mumbo jumbo and I don't desire to have that conversation.

 

[Arial]

Sins we do on purpose. For we as God have said, have His Law in our hearts and in our minds. We the sanctified have been perfected forever. And to Do despite upon the spirit of grace and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing brings God's fiery indignation. It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of God.

Whenever we sin we do it on purpose. What it means is a life style of unrepentant sin. Counting the price that Jesus paid on the cross to free us from condemnation as a license to sin without consequence. Which shows that the person does not have the life of Christ in him. He is the Vine. The branches produce fruit from that Vine.

 

[Arial]

@Eleanor Do you believe in getting even?

 

[GeneZ]

The recipients of Hebrews weren't in the Jerusalem church. And I would have to check the timeline to see if any of the Hebrews possible dates of writing align with what was going on in Acts 21 but I would bet my last dollar that you didn't bother to before you said that.

This had to do with what is said in v 21 (the rest of the sentence) and they have been told about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or walk according to our customs.

Which Paul was not doing. Paul did not have an issue with Jews being circumcised, he had Timothy circumcised in order to avoid conflict. Or the customs which does not include the sacrifice of atonement. (That is not a custom. Customs would be feast days and such.) The issue Paul had was with anything other than Christ and Him crucified beging siad as necessary for salvation. And there is nothing in Heb 6 that suggests this was the issue or certainly not the sole issue of the letter. Those passages are prefaced with big IF"S my friend. Not with "because you's" or "since you's".



That sounds very non-denominational, charismatic, word of faith, willy nilly doctrinally, mumbo jumbo and I don't desire to have that conversation.

It was written to the Jewish believers.... One letter. Where would you send it if that were the case?

The timeline shows it was written just before Jerusalem fell. And, was apparently written to Jews who had access to the Temple.
Otherwise? In my opinion, Hebrews 6:6 would have been not something to be mentioned.

and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance.
To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again
and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Animal sacrifices were only performed in the Temple in Jerusalem.

 

[GeneZ]

That sounds very non-denominational, charismatic, word of faith, willy nilly doctrinally, mumbo jumbo and I don't desire to have that conversation.

And, that sounds very humble.

 

[HIM]

Whenever we sin we do it on purpose. What it means is a life style of unrepentant sin. Counting the price that Jesus paid on the cross to free us from condemnation as a license to sin without consequence. Which shows that the person does not have the life of Christ in him. He is the Vine. The branches produce fruit from that Vine.

For if we the verse 26 starts. Which means The writer includes himself in this admonition. And this is being stated in context to what was previously stated. Which speaks of not forsaking the fellowship of one another, provoking one another unto good works having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience in and through Christ Jesus. These are they whom have received the knowledge of the truth and prayfully do not drawback unto perdition.

 

[HIM]

The context of all of Hebrews is one thing; i.e., apostasy, from 2:1 to 12:25.

Apostasy is living in sin and those whom do so after they have received the knowledge of the truth no sacrifice remains. Only the fiery indignation which shall devour the adversary. The one continuing in willful sin.

 

[HIM]

Do you only sin by accident?

If we are sinning willfully after we receive the knowledge of the truth no more sacrifice remains.

 

[ChristB4us]

1Cor 3:10-17 is regarding the foundation. I will highlight it for you.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

The foundation Paul speaks of is the foundation that Jesus gave the apostles to lay---that is the doctrinal truth of Christ and His church. What this is saying is that those who may teach some things that are not completely accurate, as long as they teach the saving truths concerning Christ, they will be saved. But those things that were wrong that did not pertain to the saving doctrines of Christ will be burned up---that is become nothing and those who teach them will suffer loss of reward.

Just to be clear, Paul refers to himself as starting the church but he acknowledge that foundation being laid is Jesus Christ; hence referring to the chief cornerstone; the rock that the church is built upon.

There is no legitimate way to make this what Hebrews 6 is speaking of. And there is no legitimate way to say that it refers to people who do not go in the rapture. That may be one of the things that is burned up. There is no definitive support in scripture that there will be such a pretribulation rapture as you see it. That too may be one of the things that gets burned up.

Yes there is when Paul is addressing how each believer build upon that foundation; not the foundation itself if you note verse 12 in red.

Our bodies are the temple of the holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

So if a believer sows to the works of the flesh, wood, stubble, and hay, in defiling the temple of God in reaping corruption, they will die a physical death per verses 16-17 in that day as hinted at in verse 13, but that spirit is still saved per verse 15.

So if only the works on that foundation was stubble, wood, and hay for which defiles the temple of God, that fire will burn all of that stuff OFF of that foundation just as that fire will burn all that thickets and thorns off of that earth. The foundation remains as that seal of adoption does in parallel to how the earth had received the rain and life is still in that earth even though all it grew was thickets & thorns which will be burnt away.

 

[ChristB4us]

Sins we do on purpose. For we as God have said, have His Law in our hearts and in our minds. We the sanctified have been perfected forever. And to Do despite upon the spirit of grace and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing brings God's fiery indignation. It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of God.

@Eleanor

That is not the sin I read.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Maybe you need to see how offensive that is for practicing as if there still remains a necessity for sacrifice for sins.

Hebrews 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.....

This is the willful sin that makes God mad in Hebrews 10:29 by practising as if the blood of the New Covenant is on par with the blood of goats & bulls that it bears repeating,

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

By having the Holy Ghost in us is Witness to why there is no more need for sacrifice for sins for we are sanctified forever.

But by continuing as if there is still need for sacrifice for sins and treating communion as a means to that end, whoo boy. God is going to be mad.

Unless Catholics and other Protestant believers that may believe in that way repent before the Bridegroom comes, otherwise, they will get left behind at the pre great tribulation rapture event.

Now I am just talking about what Paul is writing about here in regards to what that sin was if they willfully do that in that way, BUT yeah, if a saved believer continues to live in sin, they are at risk of being left behind too unless they look to Him for help to depart from iniquity before the Bridegroom comes, otherwise, stripes will be coming on them from the Father for not resisting sin as mentioned here for not running that race.

Hebrews 10:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. 5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

 

[HIM]

That's not what I asked.

Do you only sin accidentally?

Are we the standard. What we do or don’t doesn’t matter unless we living in willful sin. If we are continuing in sin thinking grace shall abound. We have no more sacrifice for sin. Only certain fearful looking forward to judgement and fiery indignation which shall devour the adversary, those continuing in willful sin.

 

[GeneZ]

Do you only sin by accident?

Only when I can't find a men's room!

 

[HIM]

@Eleanor

That is not the sin I read.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Maybe you need to see how offensive that is for practicing as if there still remains a necessity for sacrifice for sins.

Hebrews 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.....

This is the willful sin that makes God mad in Hebrews 10:29 by practising as if the blood of the New Covenant is on par with the blood of goats & bulls that it bears repeating,

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

By having the Holy Ghost in us is Witness to why there is no more need for sacrifice for sins for we are sanctified forever.

But by continuing as if there is still need for sacrifice for sins and treating communion as a means to that end, whoo boy. God is going to be mad.

Unless Catholics and other Protestant believers that may believe in that way repent before the Bridegroom comes, otherwise, they will get left behind at the pre great tribulation rapture event.

Now I am just talking about what Paul is writing about here in regards to what that sin was if they willfully do that in that way, BUT yeah, if a saved believer continues to live in sin, they are at risk of being left behind too unless they look to Him for help to depart from iniquity before the Bridegroom comes, otherwise, stripes will be coming on them from the Father for not resisting sin as mentioned here for not running that race.

Hebrews 10:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. 5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

Then you are mistaken. Sin is sin whether we like it or agree. Verse 26 includes what you say but is not inclusive to what you say. And that translation is incorrect. The text states willfully sinning in the present tense. This is a state of the unrepentant or those whom fallen away

 

[civic]

Cool.

Do you only sin accidentally?

or in some cases those who claim they never sin.

I know beyond all doubt that when I sin its not by accident.