Hebrews 6

[GeneZ]

Why do you think no one was indwelt by the Holy Spirit before Pentecost? For instance why did David plead with God to not take His Holy Spirit from him?

The Greek speaks of the Holy Spirit taking up a permanent residence in the believer. His body becomes a temple of the Holy Spirit.

David received the "filling of the Spirit." He was granted power from God coming upon him to achieve his duties as king. David could lose the filling of the Spirit (like Samson lost the filling). We remain with the Spirit indwelling us. If we sin, or think stupidly with the Word of God? The Holy Spirit will not leave us like he could with David. Instead, the Spirit remains in us being either grieved or quenched.

The Spirit indwelling a Christian is there to transform that believer into the image of Christ. David had no such option and had to submit his flesh to live under the Law. That transformation only takes place when the believer is learning sound doctrine. False teachings grieves the Spirit and makes the believer ineffectual and dull.

Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. ​

And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being ​

transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from ​

the Lord, who is the Spirit." 2 Cor 3:17-18​

grace and peace ................

 

[civic]

I agree as far as the commencement of the so-called church age that this event took place and fulfilled Joel 2:28 in the pouring out of the spirit on all flesh.

BUT, I don't see this salvation any different than in the OT, but by degree.

We can see that there were OT saints who were converted. The Psalms David had written were not written by an unregenerate, unconverted man.

Buy David did plea with God not to take His spirit away from him. So the spirit came upon the OT saints and did not permanently indwell them like after Pentecost.

 

[Eleanor]

It is not so much about apostasy as it is about standing firm in the faith, the reasons we can, the danger of not doing so. Apostasy is just a word used to express departing from the faith.

so that we do not drfit away (2:1)
see to it that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away (3:12)
hold firmly till the end (3:14)
do not harden your hearts (3:15)
who were they that rebelled? (3:16)
those who disobeyed (3:18)
they were not able to enter because of their unbelief (3:9)
they did not combine the message with faith (4:2)
"So I declared on oath in my anger, 'They shall never enter my rest.' "
"They shall never enter my rest." (4:5)
those who had the gospel preached to them did not go in because of their disobedience (4:6)
so that no one will fall by following their example (4:11)

I can't think of another place in the NT that has so much in it addressing apostasy, and presenting the supremacy of Christ over the OT dispensation to persuade against that apostasy, as we find in Heb 1-10, before it then moves forward to the remedy, and remedy for what? Apostasy.

That is the context of Heb 6:4-6.

Why is it so important that it be not about apostasy?

 

[GeneZ]

There is much incorrect in you post but the most glaring is that the book of Hebrews never says or gives any indication of any of what you claim concerning the recipients of the letter or of what you said about Paul.

Paul was a Jew! He walked into the very area that the book of Hebrews was addressing. You can't see that???

Why not just correct a little bit? Like to see you try. You know nothing until you can back your words.

You just do not know what you are doing, and are now confounded and refuse to admit it.

Here! Correct just a little! Not the whole thing.


The following passage is essential in needing to be understood before Hebrews 6:4-6 can be understood.


Acts 21:20-26

When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: ​

“You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and ​

all of them are zealous for the law. They have been informed that ​

you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from ​

Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according ​

to our customs. What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you ​

have come, so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who ​

have made a vow. Take these men, join in their purification rites and ​

pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. ​

Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, ​

but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. As for the ​

Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should ​

abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of ​

strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”​

The next day Paul took the men and purified himself along with them. ​

Then he went to the temple to give notice of the date when the days of ​

purification would end and the offering would be made for each of them."​

The Jewish believers were in essence crucifying Jesus afresh each time they insisted in returning to the Temple to offer sacrifices!

It got so bad they convinced even Paul to offer sacrifice in the Temple. God almost killed Paul (sin onto death) for doing it.
Because, Paul who understood grace and the Cross better than anyone, was without excuse for what he let himself be talked into.

That was the problem being addressed in Hebrews 6:4-6!

“You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and ​

all of them are zealous for the law. (animal sacrifices! It was crucifying Jesus afresh!)​

​

Hebrew 6:6 says...​

​

To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace."​

The animal sacrifices always represented Jesus on the Cross!

Those Jews were saved. They had been enlightened.
They had tasted the heavenly gift of salvation! But?

Those Jews, would not give up their zeal for the law. .No repentance.
They were stubborn and remained highly religious. Just like Catholics with their dogmas.

Those Jewish believers went apostate from real Christianity and refused correction.
It had become impossible to bring them back to their senses to repent and correct their ways....

The author of Hebrews was saying in effect....

"Leave them be! They are too far gone! Its impossible anymore to get them to repent.
But.. As for you? Continue on in maturing in Christ and the blessings to come. "

That in essence was what Hebrews 6:4-6 was addressing.

 

[civic]

I used to believe that way, but now I am not so certain. I believe the teaching that "if any man does not have the Spirit, they are none of His" to be an immutable truth. But I could be wrong.

I like K&D on the topic below.

Keil and Delitzsch Biblical Commentary on the Old Testament
In the second part, the prayer for justification is followed by the prayer for renewing. A clean heart that is not beclouded by sin and a consciousness of sin (for לב includes the conscience, Psychology, S. 134; tr. p. 160); a stedfast spirit (נכון, cf. Psalm 78:37; Psalm 112:7) is a spirit certain respecting his state of favour and well-grounded in it. David's prayer has reference to the very same thing that is promised by the prophets as a future work of salvation wrought by God the Redeemer on His people (Jeremiah 24:7; Ezekiel 11:19; Ezekiel 36:26); it has reference to those spiritual facts of experience which, it is true, could be experienced even under the Old Testament relatively and anticipatively, but to the actual realization of which the New Testament history, fulfilling ancient prophecy has first of all produced effectual and comprehensive grounds and motives, viz., μετάνοια (לב equals νοῦς), καινὴ κτίσις, παλιγγενεσία καὶ ἀνακαὶνωσις πνεῦματος (Titus 3:5). David, without distinguishing between them, thinks of himself as king, as Israelite, and as man. Consequently we are not at liberty to say that רוּח הקּדשׁ (as in Isaiah 63:16), πνεῦμα ἁγιωσύνης equals ἅγιον, is here the Spirit of grace in distinction from the Spirit of office. If Jahve should reject David as He rejected Saul, this would be the extreme manifestation of anger (2 Kings 24:20) towards him as king and as a man at the same time. The Holy Spirit is none other than that which came upon him by means of the anointing, 1 Samuel 16:13. This Spirit, by sin, he has grieved and forfeited. Hence he prays God to show favour rather than execute His right, and not to take this His Holy Spirit from him.

 

[Wordsmith]

Um, @Wordsmith did you see the recommendations?

I did and I have listened to MacArthur in the past. He is not one I can agree with on some things but I will not stoop to calling him names and claiming he is doing the work of the devil as some feel comfortable doing on the forum.

 

[Arial]

so that we do not drfit away (2:1)
see to it that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away (3:12)
hold firmly till the end (3:14)
do not harden your hearts (3:15)
who were they that rebelled? (3:16)
those who disobeyed (3:18)
they were not able to enter because of their unbelief (3:9)
they did not combine the message with faith (4:2)
"So I declared on oath in my anger, 'They shall never enter my rest.' "
"They shall never enter my rest." (4:5)
those who had the gospel preached to them did not go in because of their disobedience (4:6)
so that no one will fall by following their example (4:11)

Right. Perseverance.

I can't think of another place in the NT that has so much in it addressing apostasy, and presenting the supremacy of Christ over the OT dispensation to persuade against that apostasy, as we find in Heb 1-10, before it then moves forward to the remedy, and remedy for what? Apostasy.

Apostasy, in my mind and in context of Hebrews, is a bit more extreme than simply being afraid or discouraged in persevering in the faith. Apostasy is flat out rejecting what you fully understand intellectually or have had evidence of. or been involved with and professed to believe. It cannot involve not persevering in the faith as there was no faith to begin with. "They went out from us because they were never of us."

Persevering in the faith on the other hand is having true faith and not being discouraged or afraid or suffer from doubts because of what is seen---the circumstances one finds themselves in. Which is what those receiving the Hebrew letter were facing.

Let me give an example. Let's say a Christian is faithful in attending their local church for years and years. It is a great comfort and help to them in gathering together with the saints for edification and learning and spiritual support. And a great persecution of Christians comes upon the whole world. Churches are torn down and burned. Those who confess Christ are threatened with imprisonment, even death, all their goods taken from them, no longer able to gather together without the possibility of facing prison or death. How strongly would that test one's faith? How strong would be the pressure to not persevere?

Why is it so important that it be not about apostasy?

I am just trying to put the focus on the issue at a personal level as Hebrews is. He is encouraging perseverance and giving the biblical support and examples from the OT which they were familiar with, to help them stand firm in the face of troubles. Those verses in chapter 6 drive home what it would mean for them not to persevere. He drives home the sufficiency of Christ which of course is because of His supremacy. It is a positive approach encouraging perseverance, rather than a negative approach wherein the entire subject of the book becomes apostasy.

 

[Wordsmith]

Cool, you're welcome!

Some on the forum say he's doing the work of the devil eh?

No, I was not clear. Others preachers have been accused because some did not agree with their teachings. Sorry for the confusion. I believe MacArthur loves the Lord I just don’t agree with him on somethings. I believe ALL of us have some things wrong and can benefit from hearing points of view different from our own.

 

[HIM]

Hebrews 6:
4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. 7 For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and produces vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8 but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

If you are interested I am curious how you understand this passage.

Or anyone actually. This could be a great discussion.

If we continue in willful sin we will die in our sin because we have done despite upon the Spirit of grace and have counted the blood of the covenant as nothing.

 

[GeneZ]

There is much incorrect in you post but the most glaring is that the book of Hebrews never says or gives any indication of any of what you claim concerning the recipients of the letter or of what you said about Paul.

If that is so? That I am totally off the mark? And, said too many wrong things for you to correct?

Show me please that you understand at least the following.

What does the following from Hebrews 6 mean?

​

6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are ​

crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. ​

How (and who) were they crucifying the Son of God all over again?

Do you want to know? We all should.

...............

 

[Arial]

If that is so? That I am totally off the mark? And, said too many wrong things for you to correct?

This is the third time you have responded to my post, as though each time you read it you become angrier and angrier, demanding that I respond to you and right now!. Finding more and more insults to lob like stones as though you had no sin. That is not conducive to any sort of discussion and does not make anyone the least bit interestested in engaging with you.

I will respond in due time as fits my schedule and allows me to do so. I do so just to shut you up about it, and afterwards if any insults show up in your responses I will simply put you on ignore rather than continue reacting to what amounts to arrows of the devil, instigating people to sin by replying in kind.

What does the following from Hebrews 6 mean?
6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
How (and who) were they crucifying the Son of God all over again?

It doesn't actually say that anyone is doing that. That is an assumption read into it by those who aren't careful to put the whole picture together according to a systematic study of the whole counsel of God (the Bible in its entirety which is consistent as to taught truth throughout.)

It is saying that IF someone did those things, reject Christ having a full understanding of who He is and what He did, (true saving faith) and then later decided to come back, the couldn't, because they accepted Him (hypothetically) and then rejected Him. Trampling His blood underfoot. To then ask for His crucifixion to save them again would be like crucifying Him again. Such a thing is impossible. Not only impossible for them (hypothetically) to come back, but impossible that any who are sincerely joined to Christ through true saving faith, can do such a thing. As the Bible tells us.

What does it say in Hebrews 12 but Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.

 

[ChristB4us]

Hebrews 6:
4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. 7 For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and produces vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8 but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

If you are interested I am curious how you understand this passage.

Or anyone actually. This could be a great discussion.

@Eleanor @Arial @GeneZ @DJT_47 @jeremiah1five @civic @360watt

Include the first 3 verses to see in context of the message being given that there is no need to go through all that a born again believer went through in the beginning when he was saved. If they fall away, they are to repent and move on to perfection.

Hebrews 6:1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned. 9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

So it is about moving on to perfection for why a saved believer need not go through all that again for why it is impossible & thus not necessary.

If they do not repent in moving on to perfection, then 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 applies as what is burned off of the earth of the thickets and the briars, so are the works, wood, stubble, and hay which defile the temple of God on that foundation that will get burned off, but the earth having that life giving rain just as the foundation laid by Jesus Christ remains is why the believer is still saved but at risk of dying when left behind.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

 

[GeneZ]

This is the third time you have responded to my post, as though each time you read it you become angrier and angrier, demanding that I respond to you and right now!.

That was your objective. To get me angry. I know that.

I am concerned to get to truth which you appear to be not concerned with.

 

[Eleanor]

The following passage is essential in needing to be understood before Hebrews 6:4-6 can be understood without a problem.

Acts 21:20-26

​

20 When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: ​

“You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and ​

all of them are zealous for the law. 21 They have been informed that ​

you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from ​

Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according ​

to our customs. 22 What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you ​

have come, 23 so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who ​

have made a vow. 24 Take these men, join in their purification rites and ​

pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. ​

​

Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, ​

but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. 25 As for the ​

Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should ​

abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of ​

strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”​

​

26 The next day Paul took the men and purified himself along with them. ​

Then he went to the temple to give notice of the date when the days of ​

purification would end and the offering would be made for each of them."​

The Jewish believers were in essence crucifying Jesus afresh each time they insisted in returning to the Temple to offer sacrifices!

It got so bad they convinced even Paul to offer sacrifice in the Temple.

In the beginning transition period of the Jews from Judaism to Christianity, the purification rites, including offering of sacrifices, were observed by choice by some Jewish Christians but were not required of Christians, whether Jew or Gentile.

Keeping in mind that to win as many as possible, Paul became like one under the law to win those under the law, and like one not having the law to win those not having the law, all the while being very clear that he was not under the law, but under Christ's law (1 Co 9:19-23). He was very careful not to sacrifice Christian principle in any act of obedience to the law (he would not have Timothy circumcised because it would indicate that circumcision was necessary for salvation, Gal 2:3).

God almost killed Paul (sin onto death) for doing it.
Because, Paul who understood grace and the Cross better than anyone, was without excuse for what he let himself be talked into.

Where do we find that God almost killed Paul?
Not in Php 2:27, where Paul's life was not threatened.
Not in Ac 23:12-35, where it was the Jews, not God, who tried to kill Paul, from which God delivered him.

That was the problem being addressed in Hebrews 6:4-6!

“You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and ​

all of them are zealous for the law. (animal sacrifices! crucifying Jesus afresh!)​

Those Jews were saved. They had been enlightened.
They had tasted the heavenly gift of salvation! But?

Those Jews, would not give up their zeal for the law. .No repentance.
They were stubborn and remained highly religious.

Contraire. . .the Jerusalem Council was for the purpose of making the transition from Judaism to Christianity as compatible as possible, wherein Christians in the provinces of Syria and Cilicia were to abstain from meat with blood in it to accommodate Jewish sensitivities.

Those Jewish believers went apostate from real Christianity and refused correction.
It had become impossible to bring them back to their senses to repent and correct their ways....
The author of Hebrews was saying in effect....
"Leave them be! They are too far gone! Its impossible anymore to get them to repent.
But.. As for you? Continue on in maturing in Christ and the blessings to come. "
That in essence was what Hebrews 6:4-6 was addressing.

Except that apostasizing from Christianity was not an issue there in their Jewish practices.
However, what is in Hebrews is a persistent focus on the issue of apostasy.
And that is what Heb 6:4-6 is addressing, those Jews were considered apostasy and return to Judaism.

 

[Eleanor]

No conversion until Pentecost when they were in dwelt with the Holy Spirit. No Spirit no conversion, no eternal life.

They received the Holy Spirit after the resurrection (Jn 20:22-23).

 

[Eleanor]

I agree as far as the commencement of the so-called church age that this event took place and fulfilled Joel 2:28 in the pouring out of the spirit on all flesh.

BUT, I don't see this salvation any different than in the OT, but by degree.

We can see that there were OT saints who were converted. The Psalms David had written were not written by an unregenerate, unconverted man.

What do you mean by degree?

Are there degrees of salvation?

 

[Arial]

Paul was a Jew! He walked into the very area that the book of Hebrews was addressing. You can't see that???

Of course I see that. And I have not said otherwise. My question is why are you making the book of Hebrews about Paul being a Jew?

Why not just correct a little bit? Like to see you try. You know nothing until you can back your words.

Someone who demands that others back up their words ought to first back up their own words.

The following passage is essential in needing to be understood before Hebrews 6:4-6 can be understood.


Acts 21:20-26
When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”
The next day Paul took the men and purified himself along with them. Then he went to the temple to give notice of the date when the days of purification would end and the offering would be made for each of them."

I understand that passage perfectly. It is self explanatory. There was a dispute that arose because some believing Jews including some believing Pharisees, were saying the Gentiles, in order to be saved, must also adhere to certain Jewish religious rituals. It was dealing with the sufficiency of Christ. And though the book of Hebrews also expounds on that, it does not follow that it is these people in Acts that the writer of Hebrews was addressing. Which seems to be what you are saying. (Verse 25 is referring back to the dispute of Acts 15:1-19) And the vow Paul took was the Nazarite vow (Numbers 6).

The Jewish believers were in essence crucifying Jesus afresh each time they insisted in returning to the Temple to offer sacrifices!

It got so bad they convinced even Paul to offer sacrifice in the Temple. God almost killed Paul (sin onto death) for doing it.
Because, Paul who understood grace and the Cross better than anyone, was without excuse for what he let himself be talked into.

Not all sacrifices were made for atonement. Some were simply offerings to the Lord, as was the Nazarite vow. I suggest you study the book of Numbers. And it was not God who almost killed Paul but unbelieving Jews.

Those Jews were saved. They had been enlightened.
They had tasted the heavenly gift of salvation! But?

Those Jews, would not give up their zeal for the law. .No repentance.
They were stubborn and remained highly religious. Just like Catholics with their dogmas.

That is pure conjecture that those are the people Hebrews is addressed to, for which you give no support. You need a good study Bible and to familiarize yourself with book prefaces so you know the circumstances that existed that inspired the letters to be written and to whom. I am not going to do that work for you. People who have genuinely been enlightened, tasted, etc. in faith in Christ and His person and work, are not zealous for the old covenant law, they do not lack repentance, and though they may be stubborn in being highly religious, that makes it questionable as to whether they have actually understood the gospel of salvation by grace through faith, or they may just be very young in Christ.

And saved Jews do not offer sacrifices in the temple, and neither do unsaved Jews anymore.

Those Jewish believers went apostate from real Christianity and refused correction.
It had become impossible to bring them back to their senses to repent and correct their ways....

The author of Hebrews was saying in effect....

"Leave them be! They are too far gone! Its impossible anymore to get them to repent.
But.. As for you? Continue on in maturing in Christ and the blessings to come. "

If you read that carefully you will see that you contradicted yourself when you add your own words, "Continue on in maturing in Christ." First Hebrew's audience is "apostate believers" so you say (which the entire NT and the very character of God, and also the very book of Hebrews, shows to be an impossibility as they are sealed in Christ, and Christ will lose none that the Father gives Him)and then the audience of Hebrews is non apostate believers.

 

[ChristB4us]

I just gave you 2 examples FROM SCRIPTURE. Just add a bit of common sense to that, i.e., if a Christian were to denounce Christ and become a Muslim, would he still be saved???

Yes, he would be because Jesus Christ still abides in that believer, but is at risk of being denied by Him at the pre great tribulation rapture event unless he repents in time before the Bridegroom comes.

There is scriptural basis for this because He still abides in former believers.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Apply verse 10 above to the below for why we are to still call former believers and not just believers living in sin or heresy since heresy is also a work of the flesh, to depart from iniquity so they can be ready to be received by the Bridegroom as that vessel unto honor in His House, the vessel of gold & silver, which is the eternal glory that can be "obtained" with our salvation in Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

So what happens if they don't depart from iniquity before the Bridegroom comes? They shall be condemned as vessels unto dishonor in His House, vessels of wood & earth, BUT STILL IN His House for why they will be resurrected after the great tribulation in serving the King of kings on earth from all over the world in raising up the coming generations by them.

They testify to the power of God in salvation for all who believe in Him, even in His name, even though they had gone astray. Christ will finish His work even in those saints denied by Him that get left behind. Believe Him as he will lose none of all the Father has given Him.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

After seeing the promise in verse 39-40, look at verse 37 as comparing that with Matthew 25:1-13 at the link Matthew 25:1-13 KJV and note how the ten virgins ARE the Kingdom of Heaven but the foolish missed out on the wedding reception with the Bridegroom?

@Arial

So there is no casting out of His kingdom those that have been saved but they can be excommunicated from the Marriage Supper for being in iniquity as I believe that iniquity is saved believers thinking they can receive the Holy Spirit by a sign or again & again & again for why they are out to the market getting filled with oil ( the Holy Spirit ) and yet the prudent were ready as always Spirit-filled & therefore abiding in Him to go.

 

[Eleanor]

Right. Perseverance.

Apostasy, in my mind and in context of Hebrews, is a bit more extreme than simply being afraid or discouraged in persevering in the faith. Apostasy is flat out rejecting what you fully understand intellectually or have had evidence of.

And that is the point of Hebrews.
To make clear they understand, that if they return to Judaism, there is no happy compromise between Judaism and Christianity,
as in the accommodation of the Jerusalem Council for the provinces of Syria and Cilicia regarding the eating of meat with blood in it.
for in reality, they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

or been involved with and professed to believe. It cannot involve not persevering in the faith as there was no faith to begin with. "They went out from us because they were never of us."

There is true faith and there is counterfeit faith (the tares).
The definition of NT apostasy is falling away from faith, in which case it would be a counterfeit faith.

So why would God warn his own elect? Are they not kept by God?
Yes, God keeps them through means. Among the ways/means God keeps the elect is warnings.
The elect heed them, the non-elect not so much.

Persevering in the faith on the other hand is having true faith and not being discouraged or afraid or suffer from doubts because of what is seen---the circumstances one finds themselves in. Which is what those receiving the Hebrew letter were facing.

The use of NT perseverance in the faith is remaining in the faith, as distinguished from apostasizing from the faith.

Let me give an example. Let's say a Christian is faithful in attending their local church for years and years. It is a great comfort and help to them in gathering together with the saints for edification and learning and spiritual support. And a great persecution of Christians comes upon the whole world. Churches are torn down and burned. Those who confess Christ are threatened with imprisonment, even death, all their goods taken from them, no longer able to gather together without the possibility of facing prison or death. How strongly would that test one's faith? How strong would be the pressure to not persevere?

One would forfeit public practice and public profession of their faith, but one would not abandon belief in Jesus Christ for the remission of their sin and right standing with God; i.e., justified and adopted

I am just trying to put the focus on the issue at a personal level as Hebrews is. He is encouraging perseverance and giving the biblical support and examples from the OT which they were familiar with, to help them stand firm in the face of troubles. Those verses in chapter 6 drive home what it would mean for them not to persevere. He drives home the sufficiency of Christ which of course is because of His supremacy. It is a positive approach encouraging perseverance, rather than a negative approach wherein the entire subject of the book becomes apostasy.

So that's your issue, you want it to be positive instead of negative?

Keep in mind that Jn 3:18 or Jn 3:36, for example, are not "positive."
So shouldn't we let Scripture be positive where it is positive, as well as let it not be positive where it is not positive, as in Heb 3:7-4:13?

 

[Eleanor]

If we continue in willful sin we will die in our sin because we have done despite upon the Spirit of grace and have counted the blood of the covenant as nothing.

Apostasy being such a sin.