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For those who deny the Lord Jesus is God: The Father or the Lord Jesus?

It does not refer to Jesus. Look at it closer with verse 9. The God who anointed the Son is YHWH. Therefore YHWH is the creator as the entire bible says.

Look closer at verse 8 and continue.

"But unto the Son..."

What is being addressed in v. 8 is in reference to the Son.
What is being addressed in v. 9 is in reference to the Son.
What is being addressed in v. 10 is in reference to the Son.

Hebrews 1:8-10
8 But unto the Son He saith, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, Thy God, hath anointed Thee with the oil of gladness above Thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of Thy hands.
 
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"The word (logos) isn't a person, it's an an it according to 1 John 1:1-2. Jesus is a he. Where you are misunderstanding this is that you assumed Jesus had a literal pre-existence in scripture but he doesn't, i.e., you can't produce any verses about Jesus saying or doing anything in the Old Testament. When the logos became flesh is when he came into existence. God wasn't created, Jesus was."
( The above is a quote is a quote from @Runningman, not Eleanor. Edited by admin at Eleanors request. See posts #89, 91, 93)
It was in Greek philosophy, which is why John chose the word.
The word "Logos" is a Person. That Person is Christ.
Christophanies. Ever hear of that?
Even before God created heaven, earth, and man a lamb was slain from [before] the foundation (creation) of the world.

Jesus wasn't created. He was born. And Christ was also born 'in the fulness of time."
The Logos always existed. But only in time did He clothe Himself in sinless, perfect, flesh. When the Logos was tempted in the desert it was the human nature of the Logos not the Deity. The Logos said, "for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me" (Jn 14:30.)
It was proven at His temptation.
I believe the Holy Spirit chose the word 'Logos.'
It just so happened to be Greek terminology.
 
Look closer at verse 8 and continue.

"But unto the Son..."

What is being addressed in v. 8 is in reference to the Son.
What is being addressed in v. 9 is in reference to the Son.
What is being addressed in v. 10 is in reference to the Son.

Hebrews 1:8-10
8 But unto the Son He saith, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, Thy God, hath anointed Thee with the oil of gladness above Thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of Thy hands.

From another perspective. .

It is how the word Son is used, in "two ways". born of man and born of God Satan would have it all together the same .no need for conversion (son of God)

Son of man Jesus would speak to his dying body like all appointment to die once . Son of God speak of a new incorruptible spiritual seed. The "Spirit of Sonship" or "Spirit adoption" by which as a new creatures we can cry out Abba Holy Father with the living promise of a new body.

Spirit of Sonship. spiritual seed (one Christ) not fleshly dying seeds many

Galatian 4 6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

God the Spirt of Sonship he remains without mother or father beginning of Spirit life or end thereof.

Its where the use of the vision of theophany Melcizedek comes in. The Spirit of Sonship a picture of the high priest used to represent his first born Son of God, previously Jesus the a Son of man

,Hebrews 7King James Version7 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God,( Not high God) who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually. Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

Therefore using a theophany as if man as a shadow of the Spirit of Sonship. The first born of many sons of God (born again believers)

The changing of the order of the priesthood of believers from the Levites to the tribe of "Judah" a born agin name meaning "now I can praise the lord" . used to represent all the tribes or families of the world

Hebrews 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

A theophany or vision would not work in that parable therefore using using the temporal things seen to give us the spiritual unseen understanding hid in parables) The Spirit of faith was needed to do what the letter of the law (death ) could not do. . produce new spirit life

According to the prophecy, literal flesh and blood signified as sinful was needed to put away sin in the flesh . . . as vison would not accomplish the end goal . The Spirit of Sonship

Romans 8:2-4King James Version For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Hebrews 6:20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. (vision)
 
Actually read what the Old Testament says regarding Immanuel. It proves he isn't God. God doesn't need time to know to reject evil and choose good.

Isaiah 7
14Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call Him Immanuel. 15By the time He knows enough to reject evil and choose good, He will be eating curds and honey.
I "actually read what the Old Testament says regarding Immanuel". I don't know who you think you are, but there really isn't any need for your priceless advice here. You'd do well to come down off your high horse before you realize it is made of straw.

How does Isaiah 7:14 prove that the Christ isn't God? Babies have to learn.

Jesus humbled himself, took on the nature of humanity, and put aside his "god-ness" for a poor way to put it, yet never sinned. I don't know what your definition of sin is, but human babies learn, and so did Christ. But unlike you and me, he was never at enmity with God. His success proves he was God, living in dependence on the Father, rather than on his own divinity. This proves he was divine. Nobody else has ever done that, nor can do that.

And how does the rest of the Old Testament prove he isn't God?

Isaiah 9
6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
 
I am not really sure why you quoted my post from last year without any explanation, seeming to use it as representative of something you know as well, but thanks. Good to see it again.

Indeed. 1 John 1:1-3 does indeed say that in the beginning the Word of Life is something the disciples could see, hear, and touch. I might add, the disciples were not there at the literal “beginning” [of time] but rather were there at the beginning of Jesus’ ministry when the Word of life was revealed or was manifested in the man Jesus.
Be not deceived. @Eleanor does not agree with you.
 
The word "Logos" is a Person. That Person is Christ.
Christophanies. Ever hear of that?
Even before God created heaven, earth, and man a lamb was slain from [before] the foundation (creation) of the world.

Jesus wasn't created. He was born. And Christ was also born 'in the fulness of time."
The Logos always existed. But only in time did He clothe Himself in sinless, perfect, flesh. When the Logos was tempted in the desert it was the human nature of the Logos not the Deity. The Logos said, "for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me" (Jn 14:30.)
It was proven at His temptation.
I believe the Holy Spirit chose the word 'Logos.'
It just so happened to be Greek terminology.
To be clear, you are answering @Runningman , not @Eleanor —no?
 
"The word (logos) isn't a person,
The word was God is a Person with God.

Gnosticism is the religion of words, not of God.

1 Tim 6:4
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,



you can't produce any verses about Jesus saying or doing anything in the Old Testament.
Heb 1:7
And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:


And even their scientific loyalty to words is cast away, in order to childishly believe what they want anyway.

2 Timothy
{6:20} O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane [and] vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: {6:21} Which some professing have erred concerning the faith.

When the logos became flesh is when he came into existence. God wasn't created, Jesus was."
Which includes all of Heb 1 declaring the Son was not an angel.

Rejecting the Son as God made flesh was among the unbelieving Jews from the beginning.

And since none of them even speak of being born of God by Christ Jesus, the reason must be they don't want God Personally dwelling within them.

But, He still sees every heart and thought of every person on earth.

Heb 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


It was in Greek philosophy, which is why John chose the word.
The problem of course is dealing with unbelievers that give lip service to the Bible, who don't believe all Scripture is written by God Himself, and His prophets and apostles were only holy pens in His hand.

Col 2:8

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
 
It does not refer to Jesus. Look at it closer with verse 9. The God who anointed the Son is YHWH. Therefore YHWH is the creator as the entire bible says.
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:. Probably a course in critical thinking is needed?
 
The word was God is a Person with God.

Gnosticism is the religion of words, not of God.

1 Tim 6:4
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,



Heb 1:7
And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:


And even their scientific loyalty to words is cast away, in order to childishly believe what they want anyway.

2 Timothy
{6:20} O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane [and] vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: {6:21} Which some professing have erred concerning the faith.



Which includes all of Heb 1 declaring the Son was not an angel.

Rejecting the Son as God made flesh was among the unbelieving Jews from the beginning.

And since none of them even speak of being born of God by Christ Jesus, the reason must be they don't want God Personally dwelling within them.

But, He still sees every heart and thought of every person on earth.

Heb 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.



The problem of course is dealing with unbelievers that give lip service to the Bible, who don't believe all Scripture is written by God Himself, and His prophets and apostles were only holy pens in His hand.

Col 2:8

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Eleanor did not say those things you object to. She does not believe those things, either. You should ask @Arial to remove this post and redirect these remarks to @Runningman who did write those things. @Eleanor only quoted him.
 
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