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For those who deny the Lord Jesus is God: The Father or the Lord Jesus?

Eleanor did not say those things you object to. She does not believe those things, either. You should ask @Arial to remove this post and redirect these remarks to @Runningman who did write those things. @Eleanor only quoted him.
I can't do that. I am limited to what I did. I even went back today when I saw the confusion and put my edit in red. If people would read all of something before they leap with bared teeth on someone there wouldn't be a problem. Anyone who has read any posts of @Eleanor, would know that what is quoted and is in quotes, is not consistent with her beliefs.
 
That was a quote from another poster.
Deut 19:
At the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.


Especially when independently made.
 
Eleanor did not say those things you object to. She does not believe those things, either. You should ask @Arial to remove this post and redirect these remarks to @Runningman who did write those things. @Eleanor only quoted him.
Eleanor said:
When the logos became flesh is when he came into existence. God wasn't created, Jesus was."

If you want to be some sort of site adjudicator of 'he said' vs 'she said', that's fine. I just respond to them that respond to me.

If you want to comment on the arguments I make, I'll be glad to see them.
 
Eleanor said:
When the logos became flesh is when he came into existence. God wasn't created, Jesus was."

If you want to be some sort of site adjudicator of 'he said' vs 'she said', that's fine. I just respond to them that respond to me.

If you want to comment on the arguments I make, I'll be glad to see them.
No. She did not say those things. She quoted them. If you can't see and acknowledge the difference, then I can see how you came up with such a messed up theology as what you espouse, not to mention why you come across as a frustrated antagonist.
 
Eleanor said:
When the logos became flesh is when he came into existence. God wasn't created, Jesus was."
Eleanor did not say that!! She was making a point but the words were not hers but Runningman's. The original post was edited to make that clear. It is marked in red. Below are Eleanor's words, refuting what Runningman said.
It was in Greek philosophy, which is why John chose the word.
Every one has been notified of this. Everyone has the same post, those treating it like it is Eleanor's belief have had comments saying it was not. So why are you still acting like it is? Please take the argument up with the one who believes Jesus is not God. That would be Runningman.
 
If you want to be some sort of site adjudicator of 'he said' vs 'she said', that's fine. I just respond to them that respond to me.
Even Runningman admitted it was his words.
 
Except they have not turned. . .they're defending and explaining me.

More misrepresentation?
They were more like skeptical and in disbelief at first. After you explained yourself and I took ownership of that quote now they love you again.
 
I'll simply quote the passage. Does 1 John 1:1-3 trigger anyone?

1 John 1
1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our own eyes, which we have gazed upon and touched with our own hands—this is the Word of life. 2And this is the life that was revealed; we have seen it and testified to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us.
 
They were more like skeptical and in disbelief at first. After you explained yourself and I took ownership of that quote now they love you again.
That's a good demonstration of how you arrive at your view of Scripture. . .
 
I'll simply quote the passage. Does 1 John 1:1-3 trigger anyone?

1 John 1
1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our own eyes, which we have gazed upon and touched with our own hands—this is the Word of life. 2And this is the life that was revealed; we have seen it and testified to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us.
He is saying exactly the same thing he said in John 1. Jesus is the Word of life, He was from the beginning, the very one they (the apostles) saw and touched, that He is eternal life and was with the Father and was revealed to them.
 
He is saying exactly the same thing he said in John 1. Jesus is the Word of life, He was from the beginning, the very one they (the apostles) saw and touched, that He is eternal life and was with the Father and was revealed to them.
But did you notice that in 1 John 1:1-3 it says the Word of Life is an it? John is saying the Word is a thing. Yet John 1 the Word is a he. This is a big part of why I believe the Word isn't a literal person, but something being personified. I know few here will agree with it, but nevertheless there is a good case as to why this is.
 
But did you notice that in 1 John 1:1-3 it says the Word of Life is an it? John is saying the Word is a thing. Yet John 1 the Word is a he. This is a big part of why I believe the Word isn't a literal person, but something being personified. I know few here will agree with it, but nevertheless there is a good case as to why this is.
Something that is being personified and that isn't literal, cannot be seen with our eyes, or touched with our hands. The "it" is what was revealed, not the person who was heard and touched.

But you have as much as admitted that you will take the verse in 1 John which you think you can fit into your presuppositions, then take that presupposition and use it to change the clear meaning of John 1. That is not a proper interpretive method.
 
Something that is being personified and that isn't literal, cannot be seen with our eyes, or touched with our hands. The "it" is what was revealed, not the person who was heard and touched.

But you have as much as admitted that you will take the verse in 1 John which you think you can fit into your presuppositions, then take that presupposition and use it to change the clear meaning of John 1. That is not a proper interpretive method.
It refers to the beginning of Jesus' ministry. Notice how "in the beginning" John said this was something they could see, hear, and touch. Were they there at the literal beginning of creation? Nope. This is referring to something that was revealed by Jesus 30 years after he was born.

John 1:9 puts it like this:

9The true Light who gives light to every man was coming into the world.​

Notice how in the context the Light is something John came to testify about and that in the present tense the true Light was coming into the world. That would place the true Light as coming into the world when Jesus was 30 years old. (Luke 3:23)

When you see this part, try reading John 1 again, keeping in mind the true Light wasn't coming into the world until after Jesus was already 30 years old. Once you see it, you can't unsee it. It means Jesus isn't literally a pre-existent being known as the Word. I still say it's personification, but I know what your beliefs are so I guess we may not agree. Still I believe it's worth showing people and letting them decide what to do with it.
 
The "Lord" in 1 Corinthians 8:6 refers to the same Lord in 1 Corinthians 10:21-22, 26.
This means Jesus is YHWH.
You need to learn how to study the bible.


1 Corinthians 8:6

6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

1 Corinthians 10:26
26 for, “The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it.”[a]

Footnotes​

  1. 1 Corinthians 10:26 Psalm 24:1

Psalm 24​

Of David. A psalm.​

1 The earth is (the Lord’s / Yahwah's) and everything in it,
the world, and all who live in it;
 
You need to learn how to study the bible.


1 Corinthians 8:6

6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

1 Corinthians 10:26
26 for, “The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it.”[a]

Footnotes​

  1. 1 Corinthians 10:26 Psalm 24:1

Psalm 24​

Of David. A psalm.​

1 The earth is (the Lord’s / Yahwah's) and everything in it,
the world, and all who live in it;

Next time try to actually address the evidence I presented rather than dodging it.
 
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