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For those who deny the Lord Jesus is God: The Father or the Lord Jesus?

Not sure what you're getting at, but the Creator is the Word, who became the only-begotten Son when made flesh.

The phrase "only begotten" is from the Father. There is a difference between from the Father and from Mary. The begotten from the Father is eternal and the begotten from Mary is according to his human nature. There is only one and not two begotten from the Father, which is eternal and not incarnational.
 
Not sure what you're getting at, but the Creator is the Word, who became the only-begotten Son when made flesh.
The only begotten Son has always been the only begotten Son and did not come into existence when made flesh.
He's always existed. He's always been Son to His Father.

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, 1 Timothy3:16.

The Eternal God [was] manifest in the flesh. He didn't become God or become the only begotten Son "when made flesh." He always is the Son, whether in Spirit or when He became flesh.
 
Then answer my question I sent you first and I wouldn't have to guess.
Hi thanks for the reply. What question was that that keeps you guessing?
There was no 1st century reformation.
The Advent of both Israel's Messiah and the Holy Spirit of Promise was a continuation of the prophecies about their coming that would complete Judaism.
Christianity is Completed Judaism.
What happened to it?

Ok then is it OK to remove all references to include the foundation for kings in Israel ?

David in the Psalms was inspired and declared .. . .What could the born again believers do if the enemy destroys the foundation of a doctrine? .

Just pretend they are not there?

It seems easy in one sense, which I call Christian sense. Christian, the new name the Holy Father named his bride in Acts . . literally meaning (residents of the heavenly city of Christ) prepared as his one bride named after her husband Christ I would think a more befitting name to name the bride of al the nations

God as King of earthly kings and Lord of earthly lords reigned from heaven using his living temple not made with the dying hands of mankind apostles sent out with prophet (the gospel) Samuel the last apostles ,women and men prophets sent from all the nations of the world sent with prophecy the gospel of our salvation .

It was restored during the first century reformation Joel speaking of the last days which began at the time or reformation spoke of it women and men prophets from all the nations of the world holding out the gospel of peace Kings in Israel Men only ceremonial club" no females" prophets or priests allowed like the priestess Zipporah

Joel2:27-28 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the Lord your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed. And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh;(every nation) and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

The foundation of the doctrine of reformation The atheist Jew( no faith as it is written in stone). Gathered themselves together to conspire against Samael the apostle .Having become jealous of all the surrounding pagan nation. Their foundation . . (out of sight out of mind as in who in their right mind would worship a God not seen

Christ called them faithless not little. . none ,zero .having nothing that could pleasure our Holy Father

Their leaders desires to puff themselves up above the non -venerable as well as sola scriptura) and demanded men follow the laws of men oral traditions of dying mankind.I heard it from the fathers grape vine. I would think pass that around milion ears and see where it ends like Scrabble

Christ said to Samuel the prophet .(the foundation for the 1 st century reformation. It's not you Sammy seen that they do not want reigning over them . But me eternal invisible God .

He gave them over to do that which should even not thought of .till the time of reformation (1 century Hebrew 9)

1 Samuel 8:4-9 Then all the elders of Israel (not all Israel is born again Israel) gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah, And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the Lord.And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee. Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them.

Hebrew 9: 8-11 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats (shadows) and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal(shadows) ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come,shadow disappear) by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;( stone)

Can we remove those references ? How many chapters?
The only begotten Son has always been the only begotten Son and did not come into existence when made flesh.
He's always existed. He's always been Son to His Father.

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, 1 Timothy3:16.

The Eternal God [was] manifest in the flesh. He didn't become God or become the only begotten Son "when made flesh." He always is the Son, whether in Spirit or when He became flesh.
What was manifested in His flesh . It would seem His unseen Holy Spirit?

Remember the life of the dying flesh is in the lifeless blood but that life is spirit life the literal blood must be poured out so it can return to where it came from spiritless clay ,. He breathed in His breath of life .God does not accept dead sacrifice rather than His living. The lifeless blood must be poured out

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith (the power of the Spirit) without works is dead also.

Christ working in us, yoked with Him our burden can be lighter with a future hope beyond the grave (death).

Faith is a work as a law . "let there be" and it was "God alone good" The power of creation
 
The only begotten Son has always been the only begotten Son and did not come into existence when made flesh.
He's always existed. He's always been Son to His Father.

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, 1 Timothy3:16.

The Eternal God [was] manifest in the flesh. He didn't become God or become the only begotten Son "when made flesh." He always is the Son, whether in Spirit or when He became flesh.
I see. You know the Son is God in the flesh, and He was the Word with God in the beginning and made flesh on earth.

He is the same God yesterday and today and forever; however, He did not receive the title of Son and name of Jesus, until He did come into the world to dwell with man.

I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son.
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.


It's not a great difference, since He is the same God from the beginning. But it is an important distinction for the eternal God and Word being made a man the Son, to become the perfect Savior for all that repent.

Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
 
He is the same God yesterday and today and forever; however, He did not receive the title of Son and name of Jesus, until He did come into the world to dwell with man.

I disagree. Besides, based on your logic Hebrews 13:8 says, "Jesus Christ," but yet, in the eternal sense, or "Jesus Christ has come in the flesh" (1 John 4:2). anything before incarnation is preexistence.

The Scriptural position for eternally begotten is erchomai (John 8:42, 13:3, 16:27-30, 17:8) being understood in the eternal sense, before creation and time, who was with the Father (John 1:1, 1 John 1:2, John 17:5). The titles Father and Son and their relationship is eternal (Hebrews 1:5, Romans 8:3, Galatians 4:4, 1 John 3:8, John 11:27, and 1 John 5:20) and the title Son is mentioned in his preexistence. Also, the identity of "the one and only Son" [monogenés or only begotten] is in reference to "eternally begotten Son" mentioned in the Creeds. So, the eternally begotten Son has existed prior to his incarnation, who is the one selfsame eternally begotten Son incarnate (John 1:14, 18, 3:16, 18, 1 John 4:9).

From my standpoint, there is an eternal correlated relationship. When Jesus came to earth, he didn’t suddenly become the “Son,” but he revealed to us what the glory of the Son was already like, because John says, “We have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father” (John 1:14) and “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son” (John 3:16). In order for the Father to give the Son, they had to first be in a Father-Son relationship before the Son came into the world. Therefore, there is good reason to believe that the Father did not suddenly become “Father” when he created the world, or when he sent his Son into the world, but that the persons of the Trinity have eternally been Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

To suggest otherwise would be like a Monad version of God. Athanasius of Alexandria is on point about the eternally begotten Son, "Discourse 1 Against the Arians:"

Chapter 6, (17) .... Next, let them tell us this — or rather learn from it how irreligious they are in saying, 'Once He was not,' and, 'He was not before His generation;'— for if the Word is not with the Father from everlasting, the Triad is not everlasting; but a Monad was first, and afterwards by addition it became a Triad; and so as time went on, it seems what we know concerning God grew and took shape. And further, if the Son is not proper offspring of the Father's essence, but of nothing has come to be, then of nothing the Triad consists, and once there was not a Triad, but a Monad; and a Triad once with deficiency, and then complete; deficient, before the Son was originated, complete when He had come to be; and henceforth a thing originated is reckoned with the Creator, and what once was not has divine worship and glory with Him who was ever.​
 
The phrase "only begotten" is from the Father. There is a difference between from the Father and from Mary. The begotten from the Father is eternal and the begotten from Mary is according to his human nature. There is only one and not two begotten from the Father, which is eternal and not incarnational.
True. The Son was only begotten of the Father, and the body prepared by the Spirit was made of the flesh of David by Mary's womb.

Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh.
It's also the same with the sons of God born of the Spirit, and not of the flesh.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

The Israel of God are now after the Spirit, not after the flesh.
 
I disagree. Besides, based on your logic Hebrews 13:8 says, "Jesus Christ," but yet, in the eternal sense, or "Jesus Christ has come in the flesh" (1 John 4:2). anything before incarnation is preexistence.

The Scriptural position for eternally begotten is erchomai (John 8:42, 13:3, 16:27-30, 17:8) being understood in the eternal sense, before creation and time, who was with the Father (John 1:1, 1 John 1:2, John 17:5). The titles Father and Son and their relationship is eternal (Hebrews 1:5, Romans 8:3, Galatians 4:4, 1 John 3:8, John 11:27, and 1 John 5:20) and the title Son is mentioned in his preexistence. Also, the identity of "the one and only Son" [monogenés or only begotten] is in reference to "eternally begotten Son" mentioned in the Creeds. So, the eternally begotten Son has existed prior to his incarnation, who is the one selfsame eternally begotten Son incarnate (John 1:14, 18, 3:16, 18, 1 John 4:9).

From my standpoint, there is an eternal correlated relationship. When Jesus came to earth, he didn’t suddenly become the “Son,” but he revealed to us what the glory of the Son was already like, because John says, “We have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father” (John 1:14) and “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son” (John 3:16). In order for the Father to give the Son, they had to first be in a Father-Son relationship before the Son came into the world. Therefore, there is good reason to believe that the Father did not suddenly become “Father” when he created the world, or when he sent his Son into the world, but that the persons of the Trinity have eternally been Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

To suggest otherwise would be like a Monad version of God. Athanasius of Alexandria is on point about the eternally begotten Son, "Discourse 1 Against the Arians:"

Chapter 6, (17) .... Next, let them tell us this — or rather learn from it how irreligious they are in saying, 'Once He was not,' and, 'He was not before His generation;'— for if the Word is not with the Father from everlasting, the Triad is not everlasting; but a Monad was first, and afterwards by addition it became a Triad; and so as time went on, it seems what we know concerning God grew and took shape. And further, if the Son is not proper offspring of the Father's essence, but of nothing has come to be, then of nothing the Triad consists, and once there was not a Triad, but a Monad; and a Triad once with deficiency, and then complete; deficient, before the Son was originated, complete when He had come to be; and henceforth a thing originated is reckoned with the Creator, and what once was not has divine worship and glory with Him who was ever.​
You miss the point. It's not about the Word and the Son being God from the beginning, but about when God calls the Word Son, which is when He is made flesh.

I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
 
I see. You know the Son is God in the flesh, and He was the Word with God in the beginning and made flesh on earth.
He is the same God yesterday and today and forever; however, He did not receive the title of Son and name of Jesus, until He did come into the world to dwell with man.
I prefer to believe what took place before God created heaven, earth, and man, and that is understanding the revealed in this passage:

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from [before] the foundation (creation) of the world. Rev. 13: 8.

Let's take this one step at a time because there's more in this passage than just the plain text.

God commanded Moses to build an earthly Tabernacle modeled after the heavenly Tabernacle, and He did that for several reasons. But I want to focus on the heavenly Tabernacle because God was busy before creation offering His own sacrifice before He began creation. Heaven and earth, type and shadow, true and false. It's a bilateral universe and that's the way God created it.
Rev. 13: 8 reveals a sacrifice was made before man was created, before anything was created. The lamb is the Son, the Logos, and the one who performed the sacrifice was God the Father (shades of Abraham and Isaac.)
It is appropriate that here is where the Godly Covenant was made in which all three members of Trinity would have a part in the creation of man and culminating in his redemption. It is also appropriate that at this time it was determined by the Father what the Redeemers name would be (Yeshua"/Savior) as well as His title (Messiah/Christ/Anointed.) But the heavenly, personal Name of God is simply "I AM."
And another name you mentioned, "Emmanuel." But this means God with us - His redeemed people. It cannot apply to non-elect, unbelievers.
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son.
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

It's not a great difference, since He is the same God from the beginning. But it is an important distinction for the eternal God and Word being made a man the Son, to become the perfect Savior for all that repent.
And all that are ordained to repent are those chosen - like the lamb slain - from the foundation of the world, or before creation.
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
And those that are ordained to obey Him are the elect, those whose names are in the book of life of the lamb slain.
There is no guessing with God. Everything is preordained, predestined, even the Son of man.
 
I prefer to believe what took place before God created heaven, earth, and man, and that is understanding the revealed in this passage:

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from [before] the foundation (creation) of the world. Rev. 13: 8.
The only thing that took place with God and the Word before the beginning, was the perfect agreement of the Word being made flesh to save souls that repent.

The foreordained promise of God was fulfilled when the Word was made flesh, the Son lived righteously without sinning, died on a cross, was buried, and resurrected from the dead.

The agreement was perfectly fulfilled by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, whereby them that repent for His sake are born again of His Spirit.

Let's take this one step at a time because there's more in this passage than just the plain text.
Ok. So long as it's from the text. If anything is added to it, it must be from Scripture elsewhere confirming the text.

But I want to focus on the heavenly Tabernacle because God was busy before creation offering His own sacrifice before He began creation.
No Scripture. Bad addition.

He offered to be the sacrifice and Lamb of God in due time.

But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Foreordainment is an appointment decreed beforehand.

Heaven and earth, type and shadow, true and false. It's a bilateral universe and that's the way God created it.
God's work is not true and false, and His creation is not a shadow but a present truth.

You're getting into metaphysical yin and yang.

Rev. 13: 8 reveals a sacrifice was made before man was created, before anything was created. The lamb is the Son, the Logos, and the one who performed the sacrifice was God the Father (shades of Abraham and Isaac.)
Now you're getting into Pagan kind of Prometheus myth, where Zeus slew his own son.

God the Father did not kill His own Son, but unrighteous sinning man did so on a cross, and still does so afresh.

God the Father is not like a pagan man sacrificing His own Son in the foundation of the earth.

In his days did Hiel the Bethelite build Jericho: he laid the foundation thereof in Abiram his firstborn,


It is also appropriate that at this time it was determined by the Father what the Redeemers name would be
Jesus' name was not prophesied until His conception with Mary by the Spirit.

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.


"Emmanuel." But this means God with us - His redeemed people. It cannot apply to non-elect, unbelievers.

Ture. No unrepented worker of iniquity is believing nor elected of God in Jesus Christ.
And all that are ordained to repent are those chosen - like the lamb slain - from the foundation of the world, or before creation.
There were no little lambs of God with God and the Word in the beginning.

Predeterminism is pagan fate.

It's often taught without freewill of man, which is also pagan fatalism of being born to be masters or slaves, and rulers or servants.

And those that are ordained to obey Him are the elect, those whose names are in the book of life of the lamb slain.

Those that obey him, are those repenting for Jesus' sake, and are the elect ordained to be conformed to His righteous image.

The Lamb's book of Life began to be written with the names of the first man and woman created on earth, and continues to be written with the names of every one coming into the world, lightened by Christ.

Only the names blotted out by sin and trespass, and without repentance, are not found in the Lamb's book of life at the end of the world and last day of judgment.

There is no guessing with God.
Nor is their predetermined fate of man by God.

The election of God is ordained by repentance from dead works only. A chosen elect of Jesus Christ by repentance, is not one of the pagan world's 'Fortune's Favorites'.


Everything is preordained, predestined, even the Son of man.
The Son is the only one chosen and predestined to be the Lamb of God slain on the earth.

There are no other little lambs and names chosen and predestinated before the world began, to be anything other than created in God's image equally.

Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

You can prophesy and teach yourself as a prechosen elect of God with God and the Word at the foundation of the world. But if you're still an unrepented sinner, then the only one choosing and electing you to himself, is the god of this world.

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

The only ones known by name at the beginning of the world, were the angels of God in heaven.

Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

No man was anywhere known by God in the beginning of the heaven and earth, until the 6th day. Job was not anywhere nor known, when the angels of God shouted for joy.
 
The only thing that took place with God and the Word before the beginning, was the perfect agreement of the Word being made flesh to save souls that repent.
It's called Trinitarian Covenant.
It is the Father's Plan, the Son implemented the Plan, and the Holy Spirit is in the world today applying the Plan to God's elect.
The foreordained promise of God was fulfilled when the Word was made flesh, the Son lived righteously without sinning, died on a cross, was buried, and resurrected from the dead.
There were covenants God made with Hebrews before the Son became flesh. They all pointed to Him. Same with the prophecies.
The agreement was perfectly fulfilled by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, whereby them that repent for His sake are born again of His Spirit.
But Peter says and it's been proven in Scripture everything having to do with salvation is a gift of God - including repentance (Eph. 2:8-9.)
Ok. So long as it's from the text. If anything is added to it, it must be from Scripture elsewhere confirming the text.
No Scripture. Bad addition.
He offered to be the sacrifice and Lamb of God in due time.
But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Foreordainment is an appointment decreed beforehand.
God's work is not true and false, and His creation is not a shadow but a present truth.
You're getting into metaphysical yin and yang.
Now you're getting into Pagan kind of Prometheus myth, where Zeus slew his own son.
God the Father did not kill His own Son, but unrighteous sinning man did so on a cross, and still does so afresh.
3 He is despised and rejected of men;
A man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief:
And †we hid as it were our faces from him;
He was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs,
And carried our sorrows:
Yet we did esteem him stricken,
Smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isaiah 53:3–4.

God would not allow sinners kill His Beloved Son. In the heavenly Temple before creation God slain His Son and for His obedience to the Father's plan (just as Isaac climb on the altar without being asked) the Son lowered Himself to our level and for that He receives incomprehensible glory from those He saves.
God the Father is not like a pagan man sacrificing His own Son in the foundation of the earth.
In his days did Hiel the Bethelite build Jericho: he laid the foundation thereof in Abiram his firstborn,
Jesus' name was not prophesied until His conception with Mary by the Spirit.
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Ture. No unrepented worker of iniquity is believing nor elected of God in Jesus Christ.
Everything in Scripture points to a plan from the Father to the Son with the Holy Spirit. God was at work in the heavenly Temple offering His Son in order to create sinful man, and from these take out a people to Himself out of the world (Jn 17.)
There were no little lambs of God with God and the Word in the beginning.
Predeterminism is pagan fate.
It's often taught without freewill of man, which is also pagan fatalism of being born to be masters or slaves, and rulers or servants.
There is only One Will that is Sovereign: God's.
Freewill in man is an illusion.
Those that obey him, are those repenting for Jesus' sake, and are the elect ordained to be conformed to His righteous image.
The Lamb's book of Life began to be written with the names of the first man and woman created on earth, and continues to be written with the names of every one coming into the world, lightened by Christ.
In eternity there is no "book." It's a metaphor like the Tree of Life. They identify the Second Person of the Trinity.
Only the names blotted out by sin and trespass, and without repentance, are not found in the Lamb's book of life at the end of the world and last day of judgment.
There is no instance in Scripture of God blotting any name from the "book" of life. Christ came to save His own and His own He accomplished saving.
Nor is their predetermined fate of man by God.
The election of God is ordained by repentance from dead works only. A chosen elect of Jesus Christ by repentance, is not one of the pagan world's 'Fortune's Favorites'.
The Son is the only one chosen and predestined to be the Lamb of God slain on the earth.
There are no other little lambs and names chosen and predestinated before the world began, to be anything other than created in God's image equally.
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
You can prophesy and teach yourself as a prechosen elect of God with God and the Word at the foundation of the world. But if you're still an unrepented sinner, then the only one choosing and electing you to himself, is the god of this world.
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
The only ones known by name at the beginning of the world, were the angels of God in heaven.
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
No man was anywhere known by God in the beginning of the heaven and earth, until the 6th day. Job was not anywhere nor known, when the angels of God shouted for joy.
It says "sons of God." Don't add to the text of the bible and add "angels" for it doesn't say that and God has only ONE SON.
 
It is the Father's Plan, the Son implemented the Plan,
Now you got it. It was a foreordained plan at the foundation of the world.

But it was the plan of God and the Word in the beginning, and was implemented when the Word was made flesh, and finished when the Son died on the cross in obedience to the Father, and Jesus Christ rose again from the dead.


and the Holy Spirit is in the world today applying the Plan to God's elect.
To all them that repent for His name's sake.

God would not allow sinners kill His Beloved Son.
I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.

Sinful men killed the Son on the cross, and sinful men still crucify Him afresh.

That innocent blood be not shed in thy land, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, and so blood be upon thee.

The innocent blood of the Son was shed, and was upon all the earth.

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

All men that sinned and workers of iniquity on earth were judged guilty of the blood of the Son, as much as them that slayed Him. The iniquity of us all fell upon Him, as the stripes upon His back.

All are made guilty at the cross, and all that repent are justified by His resurrection.

Who was delivered by our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

 
Everything in Scripture points to a plan from the Father to the Son with the Holy Spirit. God was at work in the heavenly Temple offering His Son
Your father Zeus slew your savior Prometheus in your Olympian myth.

in order to create sinful man,
And your father Zeus creates sinful men.

Being sinful is all you know and teach. Not only yourself, but also your creator and maker.

But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

There is only One Will that is Sovereign: God's.
Freewill in man is an illusion.
As I thought. It's not your fault for being a sinful worker of iniquity, your god made you that way.




In eternity there is no "book." It's a metaphor like the Tree of Life.
The book of your gospel is a metaphor of mythical proportions.


There is no instance in Scripture of God blotting any name from the "book" of life.
You really don't have any belief in the Bible, that does not comply with your own book of myth.

And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.



It says "sons of God." Don't add to the text of the bible and add "angels" for it doesn't say that and God has only ONE SON.
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Neither Job nor your were there, when the angels of God shouted for joy in the beginning of heaven and earth.
 
Now you got it. It was a foreordained plan at the foundation of the world.

But it was the plan of God and the Word in the beginning, and was implemented when the Word was made flesh, and finished when the Son died on the cross in obedience to the Father, and Jesus Christ rose again from the dead.
Disagree. It wasn't finished when the Son died on the cross. What was finished was His part in the Father's Plan.
Now, the Holy Spirit's turn and His Ministry in the world today is to apply the plan that was completed by the Son on the cross.
To all them that repent for His name's sake.
And all of them that repent are those that are elect to salvation.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:8–9.

Who are the "us-ward"? They are "them that have obtained like precious faith with us," or Jewish Christians he is writing to. 2 Peter 1:1.

Who are the "all" Peter refers to? Specifically, and immediately the "all" are the Jewish Christians Peter is writing to, and in general, "all" the elect of God throughout all time.
I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.
Says nothing about death or killing Israel's Messiah.
It was Father who slew the Son and the instrument or tool in time was wicked men.

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain; Acts 2:23.
Sinful men killed the Son on the cross, and sinful men still crucify Him afresh.
"Crucifying Him afresh" is a figure of speech. Christ died one and ascended. No man can bring Him down in His person and crucify Him again/afresh. It's a figure of speech.
That innocent blood be not shed in thy land, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, and so blood be upon thee.
The innocent blood of the Son was shed, and was upon all the earth.
The "land" means Israel. Not the earth.
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
All men that sinned and workers of iniquity on earth were judged guilty of the blood of the Son, as much as them that slayed Him. The iniquity of us all fell upon Him, as the stripes upon His back.
Let's keep it in covenant. Jesus died for Israel His Church and Bride. Jesus did not die for everyone ever born on the planet. That's the heresy of Gentile Christianity. First, they unmoor their religion from its Hebrew roots; then they re-interpret the Hebrew Scripture by replacing the Hebrews with whom God has covenant and place themselves in the covenant. God made no covenant with the world. God has covenant with Abraham and his seed, with the children of Israel, and with the House of Israel. IF Gentile Christians for 1900 years have separated themselves from the Hebrew roots of the gospel, then they have separated themselves from the Hebrew covenants. You can't have it both ways. Such double mindedness.
All are made guilty at the cross, and all that repent are justified by His resurrection.
Who was delivered by our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
You do the same thing. The Scriptures describe the Hebrew people, their culture, their history, their Law, their covenants, their prophets, their religion, their Jewish Tabernacle, their Jewish Temples, and other particulars of Jewish life and living. This means words like "all" and "out" refer to Israel who has covenant with God and Jesus Christ the fulfillment of prophecies to Israel and covenants with Israel. It doesn't apply to Gentiles or everybody in the entire world ever born. That's because God made no covenant with Gentiles, or everyone ever born. Just another Constantinian Gentile church heresy.
 
Your father Zeus slew your savior Prometheus in your Olympian myth.


And your father Zeus creates sinful men.

Being sinful is all you know and teach. Not only yourself, but also your creator and maker.

But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.


As I thought. It's not your fault for being a sinful worker of iniquity, your god made you that way.





The book of your gospel is a metaphor of mythical proportions.



You really don't have any belief in the Bible, that does not comply with your own book of myth.

And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.



Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?


Neither Job nor your were there, when the angels of God shouted for joy in the beginning of heaven and earth.
There you go making things up.
I won't respond to your foolishness.
 
You miss the point. It's not about the Word and the Son being God from the beginning, but about when God calls the Word Son, which is when He is made flesh.

I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

The title Son can have a wide range of semantic meaning in Scriptures, such as: applied to angles, human beings, covenant, salvation, etc. But both the titles Father and Son are univocal (one possible meaning or interpretation) when applied to the Trinity. Notice that I said, "Trinity," not the incarnation, covenant or salvation. For example, in John 5:18 “He was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.” It's a clear-cut claim to Deity and equality with the Father. That's Trinity of co-equal. Or in Hebrews 1:2 "through whom also he created the world" are actions of creating long before coming to earth as God and man. And the one whose action of creating is referred to the title Son which is Trinity of co-eternal. The Bible also attaches to the significance of personal name or title by describing the nature or character of a person, it becomes clear that nothing in Romans 8:29 would make the reader think that such verses were merely saying that “the Person who would later be called Father predestined us to be conformed to the image of the Person who would later be called Son.
 
Your father Zeus slew your savior Prometheus in your Olympian myth.


And your father Zeus creates sinful men.

Being sinful is all you know and teach. Not only yourself, but also your creator and maker.

But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

Are you a Muslim?
 
Disagree. It wasn't finished when the Son died on the cross.
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

He finished living righteously unto death on the cross, and concluding all men as unbelievers and guilty of His blood.

He begins justifying them that repent with His resurrection from the dead.
And all of them that repent are those that are elect to salvation.
True. Both at the same same time.

Who are the "us-ward"?
All men commanded to repent. He is longsuffering to all men to repent and obey Him before the grave.

Who are the "all" Peter refers to?
All men and women in the world. He is not willing that any man or women perish in their unrepented sinning.


Says nothing about death or killing Israel's Messiah.

Now you must separate Jesus' shaming and scourging from His crucifixion and death.

The same hands that scourged Him, also crucified Him.



23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain; Acts 2:23.
And by the present commandment of the Father, the Son was delivered unto death at the hands of sinners.

The Father did not kill the Son at the hands of His enemies, by commanding Him to obey unto death.

Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

"Crucifying Him afresh" is a figure of speech.
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

God's present unrepented enemies crucify the Son unto themselves, and themselves unto the Son.

And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.


The "land" means Israel. Not the earth.
The land meant all in Israel that sinned. The earth means all on earth that sin.

Jesus did not die for everyone ever born on the planet.
He died because of everyone on the planet that sinned, which includes everyone ever on the planet.

He died because of our sinning at our own wicked hands. He rose again for our justification, that repent of sinning and crucifying Him afresh to themselves.


That's the heresy of Gentile Christianity.
The Bible is heresy to your book of myth and Jews-only covenants. I have no doubt your god has called and made you a prophet and apostle, just not the God of the Bible.

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies.

Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls:



First, they unmoor their religion from its Hebrew roots;
All unrepented sinners read with carnal minds, for advantage after the flesh.

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Natural Hebrew roots mean nothing to the new covenant of the risen God of Israel Jesus Christ, who is the only root and seed of promise:

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

I would say you have serious wanna-be fetish from natural Israelites and Jews, except that I know you only create a Jews-only covenant, in order to excuse yourself from the commanded repentance and washing of the the blood of the New Covenant.


God made no covenant with the world.
No, only with them that repent for Jesus' sake.

The god of this world makes a covenant of continued sinning with all the world, as well as any Jewish-only or Arab-only or White-only covenants after the flesh.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

God has covenant with Abraham and his seed, with the children of Israel, and with the House of Israel.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

His seed of covenant promise is Christ, and them with the faith of Abraham walking in his steps.



IF Gentile Christians for 1900 years have separated themselves from the Hebrew roots of the gospel, then they have separated themselves from the Hebrew covenants.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

In the Bible, they are God's covenants not man's.
Covenants made after the flesh are man's covenants, not God's.



You do the same thing. The Scriptures describe the Hebrew people, their culture, their history, their Law, their covenants, their prophets, their religion, their Jewish Tabernacle, their Jewish Temples, and other particulars of Jewish life and living.
Yes. All their very own, for which they had the Son crucified to keep it their very own.

For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.


Including their nation, which they now still have to themselves. Until the resurrected Lord returns to establish His righteous kingdom and holy nation over all the earth.
This means words like "all" and "out" refer to Israel
Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Gentiles now made the circumcision of God, and no more strangers to the commonwealth of Israel and covenant of promise, by the blood of Jesus Christ.



You are certainly entitled to your prophecy and apostleship of a Jews-only covenant, but alongside the Bible, it's amateur hour beneath even silly child's play.



who has covenant with God and Jesus Christ
Them that have the blood of Jesus Christ, have the blood of the covenant of Jesus Christ.


It doesn't apply to Gentiles or everybody in the entire world ever born.
Nor to Jews born after the flesh, that repent not of all their sins and trespasses for Jesus' sake.

You're not just a false prophet and apostle, but a crummy one. You're stuff is so full of holes and open contradiction of the Bible, that you make the serpent wince in embarrassment.

I could do a better job of it than you, because I at least know the truth of the Bible first, in order to then slightly tweak and twist it another way, until I end up with something entirely different.

I was once a pool shark, who could win the big game, because I first lost on purpose. I had to be good enough to miss shots convincingly, before raking in at the last.

You're misses aren't even on the same table. You send your billiard balls flying through the air, with your cue stick digging holes in the felt.

Your Jews-only covenant prophecy game is a joke. And worse yet, it's not even out of misplaced sympathies or ancient fetish for the Jews, but only anther unconditional salvation, that has neither repentance, blood, nor covenant.
 
“the Person who would later be called Father predestined us to be conformed to the image of the Person who would later be called Son.
Now you got it, at least in part.

The God that predestined would later be called His Father. And the Word to be conformed to was later called His Son.

Of course, it much less wieldy than the Bible says it:

I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son.
 
Are you a Muslim?
Some people for some reason start making personal accusations, just because someone disagrees with them. it's petty and childish, and has no place among adults.

Unless you can show anywhere that I speak as a Muslim or of being a Muslim, then you can retract your accusative 'question', or I will report you for suggesting I am not a Christian by faith and life.

Or you can just move on elsewhere.
 
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