I've taken this from the "violating men's will" thread and posted it here because it's more topical to this op.
Joseb, why ask something you already know?
I'll rephrase the question so it asks for something I do not know.
What do you think are the differences, if any, between "called forth," and "drawn," and what do you think is the scriptural bases for your answer?
God passes over the reprobate. Then at judgment, they are called forth.
You're contradicting yourself. God's prior "
passing over" over does not preclude or contradict His subsequent "
calling forth" (or any prior calling forth, for that matter. You're going to run into conflict with some very plain and simple texts, such as "
many are called but few are chosen" (Mt. 22:14). If nothing else, there are two callings, one prior to choosing and another after the grave. When consider in application to stories such as the wilderness wondering Hebrews, the army of Gideon (where more than 30,000 men were reduced to less than a tenth of that) or the example of the original twelve scripture provides repeated precedents of multiple ways for multiple purposes with multiple ends. Fixing on the one goal of salvation does not change the pattern or precedent. Saul was not drawn the same way as Simon, nor was the Centurion drawn the same way as the Philippian jailer. I was not drawn the same way your were drawn and I doubt any of us here would tell identical stories describing our conversion.
You can call it drawing or whatever you like, but you understand what I am saying.
I do not understand. I do not think you have done a very good job of articulating your views at all and I consider the request for scripture inconsistent in light of the dearth contained in your own posts. It's your op!
Sure it's correct. You're mixing up the history of the church age with the judgment. Then saying it's incorrect.
Never happened, and the Bible never mentions the phrase "
church age." That's a man-made invention that conflicts with the fact the OT men of faith are made complete in us and the single line scripture draws from the assembly (qahal) to the church (ecclesia).
The fact remains the exact same Jesus is Lord of all but Savior of only some. Every knee will bow and the reason they will all bow before him is because his Father has made them do so, drawing every single human who has lived, is living, and will ever live before Christ to honor him before most of them are then carted off to the fiery lake. Because none will be able to say, "
I did not know" every single one of them had a prior drawing, a drawing where somehow in some way that knowledge was made known to them so that having denied Christ they will be without excuse.
You've got way too many holes and inconsistencies in these posts for them to be correct.
John 3:14-15
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have eternal life.
When Jesus is lifted up those who believe in him will not perish but have eternal life.
John 12:32
And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself.
When Jesus is lifted up all men are drawn to him..... but only those who believe in him will have eternal life...... AND nothing in scripture states that drawing is the only drawing or the only means of drawing.
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The sentiment is mutual.
