Do we choose to be born again?

[TonyChanYT]

I'm still looking for Scriptural support, otherwise it's source is finite.

Can you be more precise?

 

[TonyChanYT]

I read the link. That is not co-dependence or co-reality.

That's a matter of definition.

It is perspective

Right.

and the only correct perspective is God's.

Right.

Man's perspective is limited---finite, and he is a creature.

Right.

His "boundaries" are his only frame of reference. God is not a creature, He is self existent, eternal, and infinite. He is the Creator of all.

Right.

Can you actually quote my words and contradict them? Thanks.

 

[prism]

Can you be more precise?

Scripture's source is God and thus eternal and true;
otherwise man's speculation on Scripture is finite and speculative at best.

 

[Arial]

That's a matter of definition.

What you are describing is not either one by any definition when it has anything to do with God. It is two perspectives. The eternal and the finite. Reality is of the infinite---the one who made the reality.

Well, not exactly. God plays his part, John 1:

God doesn't have a "part". He is the whole. All creation lives, and moves and has its being in Him.

For our part, we need to repent.

It isn't our "part". It is simply what we do because of what God has done in us and for us. Birthing us into Christ.

 

[Josheb]

I rarely try to prove anything.

I know. I've seen it in many boards: Claims are made, and positions asserted, scripture is often rendered poorly, and no discussion ensues. We are all, apparently, supposed to accept what's posted without question. It's an odd practice given the fact this is a discussion board.

Can you be more precise? I prefer to deal with one specific issue at a time.

Sure. Start with my answer to the first question asked in this op (found in Post #12).

 

[TonyChanYT]

God doesn't have a "part".

Can you quote my words where I asserted the negation of the above?

 

[Arial]

Can you quote my words where I asserted the negation of the above?

It is contained in your post that I quoted and responded to.

 

[TonyChanYT]

It is contained in your post that I quoted and responded to.

My words did not assert that. Are you familiar with First-Order Logic?

 

[Arial]

My words did not assert that. Are you familiar with First-Order Logic?

Is your purpose to engage in theological discussions or discussions of first-order logic? I ask because I am not interested in interpreting the Bible, or discussing it, from the standpoint of or lens of first-order logic.

 

[Mr GLee]

My words did not assert that. Are you familiar with First-Order Logic?

yes first order .
"Let there be" .second and "it was good"

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Conviction of sin, on its own, draws no-one to Jesus.

I drew ME for sure. Avoiding hell when I died was a powerful motivation to Repent!!! What drew you??

When one hears the gospel, and, by the Holy Spirit, is given a new heart/spirit - that is when he is drawn to Jesus.

When the Holy Spirit indwells is when everything changes, and you're "Born Again".

 

[Mr GLee]

BINGO!!! commonly, "Conviction of SIN" is the "drawing force" - AND the Source of FAITH (God's WORD TO YOU). However the FINAL DECISION to Repent and Call on God for salvation is yours. YOU CAN refuse, and the Conviction will fade (guess how I know that).

I guess I would call that comparing the literal seen (experience) to the literal . And not the spiritual things of God to the spiritual thing of God.

Experience is not the validator of Spiritual truth Gods living word alone is .

AND the Source of FAITH (God's living WORD working in us to both (the key) reveal his will and secondly empower dying mankind to perform it to the good pleasure of the Holy Father

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both (the gospel key) to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

Jesus the Son man did the will of the father with delight other like Jonas wanted to die. . . . one of the murmurer that learned God is not served by the dying hand as a will of mankind If he desire he can use a Ass to prophecy the oerd of God and stop the madness of the false prophet Balaam.

Not of our own dying selves,(false pride) We have the treasure of his powerful faith working in us but would never think any power came from the clay

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

 

[David1701]

I drew ME for sure. Avoiding hell when I died was a powerful motivation to Repent!!! What drew you??

Conviction of sin is through the law and/or conscience. It tells you that you are a guilty sinner, under condemnation; but, it does not draw you to Jesus; it's God who does that, through the preaching of the gospel, in the power of the Holy Spirit.

When the Holy Spirit indwells is when everything changes, and you're "Born Again".

The Holy Spirit indwells only after you have been born again; in fact, you cannot repent and believe in Jesus, unless God makes you born again first (c.f. John 3, Jesus speaking to Nicodemus).

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Conviction of sin is through the law and/or conscience. It tells you that you are a guilty sinner, under condemnation; but, it does not draw you to Jesus; it's God who does that, through the preaching of the gospel, in the power of the Holy Spirit.


The Holy Spirit indwells only after you have been born again; in fact, you cannot repent and believe in Jesus, unless God makes you born again first (c.f. John 3, Jesus speaking to Nicodemus).

Sounds like Calvinist paradigms speaking.

 

[David1701]

Sounds like Calvinist paradigms speaking.

John 3 is really quite clear that one must be born again, in order to see and enter the Kingdom of God; and we know that we enter that kingdom through faith in Jesus Christ; ergo, we must be born again, in order to have faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

John 3 is really quite clear that one must be born again, in order to see and enter the Kingdom of God; and we know that we enter that kingdom through faith in Jesus Christ; ergo, we must be born again, in order to have faith in Jesus Christ.

BUt in order to be born again, we must have FAITH in the SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the cross. Methinks that Calvinist "regeneration" foolishness in involved here.

 

[David1701]

BUt in order to be born again, we must have FAITH in the SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the cross. Methinks that Calvinist "regeneration" foolishness in involved here.

Do you believe what Jesus said to Nicodemus, because your post makes it sound as if you don't?

John 3:3-7 (EMTV)
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born, being old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"
5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'

Re. "regeneration"; it's definitely not foolishness!

Titus 3:4-6 (EMTV)
4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared,
5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
6 whom He poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Do you believe what Jesus said to Nicodemus, because your post makes it sound as if you don't?

John 3:3-7 (EMTV)
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born, being old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"
5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'

Re. "regeneration"; it's definitely not foolishness!

Titus 3:4-6 (EMTV)
4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared,
5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
6 whom He poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,

Define "regeneration".

 

[David1701]

Define "regeneration".

The primary meaning of the Greek word translated as "regeneration", in Titus 3:5, is "new birth"; in other words, it's a synonym for "born again".

 

[Bob Carabbio]

The primary meaning of the Greek word translated as "regeneration", in Titus 3:5, is "new birth"; in other words, it's a synonym for "born again".

Not according to Calvinism. Calvinist "regeneration" seems to be a "Twilight state" that IS NOT "Salvation".

One is BORN AGAIN by being indwelled by the Holy Spirit, which happens when one calls on GOD in FAITH that the SIN OFFERING of Jesus is theirs.