Created For DESTRUCTION!

[Mr GLee]

Not the same thing. No Scripture anywhere says "Jesus Christ is God the Son", but it certain is supported by Scripture.

Christ refer to the father the anointed teaching master. He taught the Son of man Jesus who became born again son of God , marvel not

 

[brightfame52]

Being of the Vessels of Wrath, them whom God purposely created to fit them for destruction, its the reasonable and necessary consequence of God having elected/chosen some people in Christ before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4, to be Vessels of Mercy. God did predetermine before the foundation to create some people outside of the Electing Love in Christ; He had determined not to write their names in the Lambs Book of Life, hence to never be redeemed by His redeeming blood 1 Pet 1:18-20

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,4

 

[SeventhDay]

Being of the Vessels of Wrath, them whom God purposely created to fit them for destruction, its the reasonable and necessary consequence of God having elected/chosen some people in Christ before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4, to be Vessels of Mercy. God did predetermine before the foundation to create some people outside of the Electing Love in Christ; He had determined not to write their names in the Lambs Book of Life, hence to never be redeemed by His redeeming blood 1 Pet 1:18-20

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,4

We all were created as vessels of God's wrath fitted for destruction! "The soul that sinneth will die" There are no exemptions and Jesus came to redeems us all and there are no exemptions. The Calvinist doctrine of election is a disgrace, dishonors God, and is a denial of Jesus atoning for us all.

 

[Mr GLee]

We all were created as vessels of God's wrath fitted for destruction! "The soul that sinneth will die" There are no exemptions and Jesus came to redeems us all and there are no exemptions. The Calvinist doctrine of election is a disgrace, dishonors God, and is a denial of Jesus atoning for us all.

How would it show a denial of Jesus the Son of man. . clearly moved to demonstrate the powerful will of Father.

The kind of food the apostles knew not of at first . Hidden in a parable that revealed the gospel understanding .

It would seem to confirm the word two throughout the Bible is the word testifying one God has spoken. "Let there be" and the mountain was moved and tossed into the sea. . . a new born again heart is created .

The law of God's good labor of Love .

John 4:33-35King James Version33 Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

The will and do power. . both

In that way he gives us little of his powerful "Let there be" faith calling us you that have little faith

More than enough to please the Father. Make a neat tattoo "Little Faith" . LoL never to old to add a new scar .

 

[makesends]

We all were created as vessels of God's wrath fitted for destruction! "The soul that sinneth will die" There are no exemptions and Jesus came to redeems us all and there are no exemptions. The Calvinist doctrine of election is a disgrace, dishonors God, and is a denial of Jesus atoning for us all.

If we were all created as vessels of God's wrath, then that is a form of election and you have contradicted yourself.

 

[SeventhDay]

If we were all created as vessels of God's wrath, then that is a form of election and you have contradicted yourself.

No. one must be called to be elected and it is God that calls the new spiritual man quickened out of death and the chosen are one that are elected.

 

[SeventhDay]

How would it show a denial of Jesus the Son of man. . clearly moved to demonstrate the powerful will of Father.

The kind of food the apostles knew not of at first . Hidden in a parable that revealed the gospel understanding .

It would seem to confirm the word two throughout the Bible is the word testifying one God has spoken. "Let there be" and the mountain was moved and tossed into the sea. . . a new born again heart is created .

The law of God's good labor of Love .

John 4:33-35King James Version33 Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

The will and do power. . both

In that way he gives us little of his powerful "Let there be" faith calling us you that have little faith

More than enough to please the Father. Make a neat tattoo "Little Faith" . LoL never to old to add a new scar .

We deny Jesus when we deny Jesus atonement in quality and scope.

 

[Mr GLee]

We deny Jesus when we deny Jesus atonement in quality and scope.

Yes would never deny that God the invisible head used dying flesh blood of the Son of man, jesus as a sign to the whole world to help understand the mystery of parable "drink blood eat flesh".

A picture of Christ pouring out His Holy Spirit life in jeapordy of his own Holy Spirit. . . poured on dying flesh and blood giving them new spiritual life with a propmised of a new incorruptible body that will never age and die.

 

[brightfame52]

We all were created as vessels of God's wrath fitted for destruction! "The soul that sinneth will die" There are no exemptions and Jesus came to redeems us all and there are no exemptions. The Calvinist doctrine of election is a disgrace, dishonors God, and is a denial of Jesus atoning for us all.

False, some were created vessels of Mercy

 

[Ghada]

Scripture says otherwise.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21
'This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey us, he is a glutton and a drunkard.' Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death; so you shall remove the evil from your midst, and all Israel will hear of it and fear.

The transgression of law is the sin of rebellion.

Lev 20:9For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.

The law did not call for the death penalty eating and drinking too much. Otherwise, Nabal would have been stoned to death.

Proverbs 20:21
Wine is a mocker, intoxicating drink a brawler, And whoever is intoxicated by it is not wise.

Not wise is not transgression of law. Otherwise, how many fools should have stoned to death.

Proverbs 23:17-21 KJV
Let not thine heart envy sinners: but be thou in the fear of the LORD all the day long. For surely there is an end; and thine expectation shall not be cut off. Hear thou, my son, and be wise, and guide thine heart in the way. Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh: For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.

Dittoes with rioteous living, which now is against the law of Christ.

I see. It's okay to get so drunk someone can rape you, or it's not okay but it's not a sin. It's okay to get that intoxicated if you've gone through some really, really bad stuff.

I have found people who learn to twist Scripture out of place, also begin to naturally do so with another's argument from Scripture.

Being 'ok' or not, is not a matter of law, but a matter of wisdom or folly.

This is why some people so mangle the law of God, because they think they are teaching law by pushing their own manners.

1Ti 1:7Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

I.e. they haven't got a clue.

I'm not being "harsh."

And I'm not being serious. Some people just can't lighten up. Any disagreement or new instruction is taken like a personal assault.

Yes, and He got so drunk he passed out and then he cursed his son.

And then he cursed his son, after his cursed son cursed his father and himself.

None of the three men called righteous should be thought to be exempt from the fact ALL have sinned and fall short of God's glory and, therefore, to have also been dead in their sin and thereby enslaved.

Whatever. Tell it to the LORD.

Fallen angels do not and did not have sex with female humans.

Do not now chained in hell is certainly true.

 

[Josheb]

We all were created as vessels of God's wrath fitted for destruction! "The soul that sinneth will die" There are no exemptions and Jesus came to redeems us all and there are no exemptions. The Calvinist doctrine of election is a disgrace, dishonors God, and is a denial of Jesus atoning for us all.

When were these vessels created?I do not think you correctly understand the Calvinist doctrine of election because Calvinists whole-heartedly believe all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Furthermore, that first sentence is NOT supported by scripture because God plainly stated what He made was very good and sinless. How then would God create a good and sinless people and make the vessels of God's wrath? What justification for ANY wrath exists with a good and sinless people? At best you've created misrepresentations and arguing a strawman. At worst the post is blatant falsehood nowhere supported by scripture or Calvinist doctrine.

We deny Jesus when we deny Jesus atonement in quality and scope.

Hogwash. Post 127 leaves something out: application.

False, some were created vessels of Mercy

When were these vessels created?

What mercy does a good and sinless creature need?

What were the other vessels created?




When monergism speaks of God "creating" vessels of mercy and vessels of wrath it does so without contradicting Genesis 1:31 and Romans 5:12. The first two vessels God made were very good vessels and in them there was no sin. They, therefore, were not created as vessels of wrath, nor vessels of mercy. The vessels of wrath and mercy were selected from the exact same group of people: sinners. There were no sinners until Genesis 3:6-7. That is when the differing "vessels" were created. All have sinned and fallen short of God's glory, but God, in his grace and mercy, has seen fit to save some but not all. His mercy is not dependent on the way a person walks or what s/he wills; He has mercy on whom He has mercy, and it is dependent on the will and purpose of God. The "clay" from which the vessels were made was originally good and sinless. Having become adulterated, God made some vessels for noble purposes and some for ignoble purposes.

 

[Ghada]

The doctrine is believers (sons of God) are not to be unevenly yoked. with unbelievers After the flood thier rebellion's continued . The commandment remains the same

True. That is the doctrine of Christ, that was also in the law of Moses. We see the bad results in Gen 6.

Not outer limits or one step beyond

 

[Ghada]

@Ghada,


Do fallen angels on earth shout for joy?

There is no argument here about what fallen angels chained in hell are doing or not doing.

Why do you persist in arguing things, that aren't being argued?

Do you not know the difference, or just don't have any debate discipline enough to care about it?

Fallen angels do not meet ANY of the criteria describing sons of God!

Halleleujah! Amen brother! Preach it!

At this point, the argument I am arguing is over, unless you bring in something new to that argument. And not some other nonargument.

Scripture is NOT silent on male humans having sex with female humans. Scripture is NOT silent on human sons of God having sex with female humans. Scripture is NOT silent on the human sons of God having sex, or their having sex with daughters of men.

NOT at all silent. It's sort of a given, but good job on confirming something I've never heard anyone ever even try to argue about, much less against.

 

[Ghada]

Christ refer to the father the anointed teaching master. He taught the Son of man Jesus who became born again son of God , marvel not

I'm not interested in other christs. Thanks anyway.

 

[Josheb]

There is no argument here about what fallen angels chained in hell are doing or not doing.

Why do you persist in arguing things, that aren't being argued?

Do you not know the difference, or just don't have any debate discipline enough to care about it?




Halleleujah! Amen brother! Preach it!

At this point, the argument I am arguing is over, unless you bring in something new to that argument. And not some other nonargument.


NOT at all silent. It's sort of a given, but good job on confirming something I've never heard anyone ever even try to argue about, much less against.

What part of "I am moving on and won't be spending any more time or effort on this digression" do you not understand?

 

[SeventhDay]

When were these vessels created?I do not think you correctly understand the Calvinist doctrine of election because Calvinists whole-heartedly believe all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Furthermore, that first sentence is NOT supported by scripture because God plainly stated what He made was very good and sinless. How then would God create a good and sinless people and make the vessels of God's wrath? What justification for ANY wrath exists with a good and sinless people? At best you've created misrepresentations and arguing a strawman. At worst the post is blatant falsehood nowhere supported by scripture or Calvinist doctrine.

Hogwash. Post 127 leaves something out: application.

When were these vessels created?

What mercy does a good and sinless creature need?

What were the other vessels created?




When monergism speaks of God "creating" vessels of mercy and vessels of wrath it does so without contradicting Genesis 1:31 and Romans 5:12. The first two vessels God made were very good vessels and in them there was no sin. They, therefore, were not created as vessels of wrath, nor vessels of mercy. The vessels of wrath and mercy were selected from the exact same group of people: sinners. There were no sinners until Genesis 3:6-7. That is when the differing "vessels" were created. All have sinned and fallen short of God's glory, but God, in his grace and mercy, has seen fit to save some but not all. His mercy is not dependent on the way a person walks or what s/he wills; He has mercy on whom He has mercy, and it is dependent on the will and purpose of God. The "clay" from which the vessels were made was originally good and sinless. Having become adulterated, God made some vessels for noble purposes and some for ignoble purposes.

Having the carnal disposition that Adam had and his non spiritual disposition to overcome the carnal mind is what led him to sin thus he was subject to death or vanity. Now. what happened when the law entered amd why was the law introduced?

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

It is the new spiritual creation that has been quickened out of death and it is that man that God desires and calls to himself.

The old man is dead with Christ in his death thus put away for good.

Yes, the first Adam was created as a vessel of wrath fit for destruction.

1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

I have provided scriptural proof and so your objections fail.

Adam being good or very good is still coming short of the glory of God which is life and bot the death condition Adam was in.

Also, Genesis 1:2.3 is a prologue and it is not in the beginning that Adam is made in the true image of God but after Jesus atonement.

Furthermore, God saves all or he saves none!


Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

The Calvinist doctrine is a heretical doctrine and denies the Lord who has redeemed them. However, they will be dealt with.

 

[Josheb]

Having the carnal disposition that Adam had and his non spiritual disposition to overcome the carnal mind is what led him to sin thus he was subject to death or vanity.

Nonsense. Adam was not created with a "carnal" disposition.

Genesis 1:31
God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.


Adam was made with a good disposition. Whatever else Adams flesh was, it was good, and not just good, but very good. The KJV uses the word "carnal," but that word does not exist in the Greek. It's a word the 17th century translators added to the text of scripture. Even if it did exist the relevant passages are referring to Adam after Genesis 3:7, not before. This notion of "carnal disposition," therefore, has no basis in this conversation, and everything built on the premise God made Adam with a carnal disposition fails as a straw man. It is, ironically, a carnal argument.

 

[SeventhDay]

Nonsense. Adam was not created with a "carnal" disposition.

Genesis 1:31
God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.


Adam was made with a good disposition. Whatever else Adams flesh was, it was good, and not just good, but very good. The KJV uses the word "carnal," but that word does not exist in the Greek. It's a word the 17th century translators added to the text of scripture. Even if it did exist the relevant passages are referring to Adam after Genesis 3:7, not before. This notion of "carnal disposition," therefore, has no basis in this conversation, and everything built on the premise God made Adam with a carnal disposition fails as a straw man. It is, ironically, a carnal argument.

Carnal means of the flesh and we know in context what Paul means when he uses the word.

It is Genesis 2:4 it begins the account of Adam being formed from the dust of the earth. What does that tell you. Adam is made perfect as a result of Jesus atonement later in the sixth day of creation,

Genesis 1 to Genesis 2:3 is a prologue and anything less that spiritual perfection is death.

Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[Ghada]

What part of "I am moving on and won't be spending any more time or effort on this digression" do you not understand?

Don't get snotty before looking at the order of posts responded to. Some people get sloppy with others, when they get in a huff about being disagreed with.

I never bother with people who bail. I don't play the 'parting shots' game either.

 

[Mr GLee]

I'm not interested in other christs. Thanks anyway.

Are you interested in the Christ who worked in the Son of man our brother in the Lord ?


Is Jesus the Son of man your brother in the Lord Remember (Paul in pain of labor preached the gospel hoping Christ would apply it to the heart of Timothy .when born agin called the chaste virgin bride. (Galatians) The whole church as a new creation is the mother of us all

Christ the incorruptible seed of the living word .

Can't be on both sides of the salvation fence.

The Holy Father gave words to his apostles prophet Jesus.

Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Mark 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother

Again is Jesus the Son of man your brother strengthened by the Father?