2 Peter 2:1 Master who bought them

[Arial]

If you want to pick a sentence here and there you can make them say anything. So, context is now a distraction with you?

Oh for Pete's sake!! To be clear to the reader, lest the distortion presented take hold, the context in the above was Lees context, not Bible context.

The above quoted remark is concerning two contradictory statements he made each followed by an explanation. It quoted only the contradictory portions to highlight that they existed. I left out the explanations because neither one resolved the contradiction.

Really? Two distinct doctrines? Yet both involve the redeemed. (Rom. 3:24-25) "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth t

Do you understand that a distinction is not a separateness? Christology and Soteriology are linked. They are interconnected. But they remain distinct.

1. Christology or the Doctrine of Christ, is the study of the person and work of Jesus.

2. Soteriology is the study of salvation.

We cannot have the second without the first and the second cannot override or diminish the first. Which is what you do. You make the first nothing until the second occurs.

 

[brightfame52]

@Eleanor

The blood saves through the gift of saving faith. . .no saving faith = no salvation.

Subtle deception, the Gift of Faith comes from the saving blood, no saving blood, no saving faith

 

[Hazelelponi]

@Eleanor



Subtle deception, the Gift of Faith comes from the saving blood, no saving blood, no saving faith

The blood that was shed was shed past tense and finished.

The blood was applied before we were born. It was over the threshold our whole life.

We just didn't know it until we were given the gift of faith and understanding.

Wouldn't you agree?

 

[Eleanor]

Subtle deception,

There is nothing deceptive about the word of God.
The gift of faith (Php 1:29, Ac 13:48, 18:27, 2 Pe 1:1, Ro 12:3) comes from the Holy Spirit.

the Gift of Faith comes from the saving blood, no saving blood, no saving faith

Before the cross, there was saving faith in the promise (Ge 15:5, seed, Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16).

 

[brightfame52]

@Hazelelponi

The blood that was shed was shed past tense and finished.

Okay True

The blood was applied before we were born. It was over the threshold our whole life.

Yes legally if we are of the elect

We just didn't know it until we were given the gift of faith and understanding.

Thats called regeneration, thats when we receive the gift of Faith and Spiritual understanding of the things of God

Wouldn't you agree?

At this juncture yes.

 

[brightfame52]

@Eleanor

There is nothing deceptive about the word of God.
The gift of faith (Php 1:29, Ac 13:48, 18:27, 2 Pe 1:1, Ro 12:3) ) comes from the Holy Spirit.

I agree with that

Before the cross, there was saving faith in the promise (Ge 15:5, seed, Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16).

I agree with that

 

[Hazelelponi]

At this juncture yes.

I don't think there's another juncture is there?

 

[brightfame52]

I don't think there's another juncture is there?

Could be, have to keep posting and find out, consistency is key

 

[Tambora]

1 Corinthians 6
(20) for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

 

[brightfame52]

1 Corinthians 6
(20) for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

That applied to the Saints, the called and chosen

 

[Josheb]

2 Peter 2:1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

I have been studying this verse for quite a while.

Commentaries vary on the interpretation.

Why do you think the commentaries vary on their interpretation? What would you say is the single most frequently existing condition, theme, element, or orientational difference that decides the diversity of interpretation?

 

[Josheb]

My assumption is that the Master who bought them is the Lord and the people in the verse are false prophets/teachers. (apostates/false christians?)

I tend to agree. This "who bought them" is readily and easily found as a theme and reference throughout the Bible. Relevant to the New Testament the purchase is firmly couched in the redemptive purchase of Christ crucified and resurrected (the repaying of the debt and the making of a bond servant who serves until his debt or bond is re-paid and then set free. This, then, would make God the "Master who bought them," and the purchased prophets those whose lives have actually been purchased. The verse is therefore also NOT a reference to those existing outside the purchase or the bond price. It is, therefore, also NOT a reference to pagan "prophets." It's not those false prophets, but these false prophets = the false prophets within the midst of those called out by God into His service. This viewpoint is reinforced by the explicitly stated qualifier "false prophets.... among the people," and the "among you." The "you" being identified earlier in the epistle as "those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (verse 1:1 of the epistle).

The prophets, the false prophets are, therefore, in-house, within the body of Christ. If that is the case, then that has specific importance to the correctly understanding the 2 Peter 2 text.

Anyhow I am trying to wrap my head around this and struggling with it. I understand it but I do not.

Grace and peace to you.

Perhaps it will help to remember two of THE most important, most basic and fundament, foundational precepts of proper exegesis:

1. Read the text exactly as written with the normal meaning of the words in their ordinary usage unless there is reason in the surrounding text giving reason to do otherwise, and....
2. a) Understand what is written as the original author intended and his original readers or audience would have understood, then.... b) apply that meaning and understanding to your/our life today, in this time, in your locale (or mine)....., c) understanding the passage was NOT written directly to us.

In other words, Peter was writing about conditions that existed at the time of his writing the epistle, the time during which his original audience would be reading that letter. He was writing about conditions and events He was told by God to anticipate, and he was directing his original readers to look for, to look forward to those things occurring in their lives. His foretelling in his epistle occurred within the context of the foretellings, the predictions of the other apostles as stated in their respective epistles - some of which contain very explicit and specific audience affiliations and "time stamps" or "temporal markers."

That should help decisively with the "struggle" and your ability to "wrap your head" around what is stated in the text (as well as help sorting out the diversity found in the commentaries because the authors of those commentaries may not have done a sound exegesis, or one as sound as you or I might do).



.

 

[ReverendRV]

2 Peter 2:1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

I have been studying this verse for quite a while.

Commentaries vary on the interpretation.

My assumption is that the Master who bought them is the Lord and the people in the verse are false prophets/teachers. (apostates/false christians?)

Anyhow I am trying to wrap my head around this and struggling with it.

I understand it but I do not.

Grace and peace to you.

The Golgatha Purchase ~ by ReverendRV * October 27

2nd Peter 2:1 KJV; But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

I’ve recently been debating with an Atheist who uses Slavery as a reason to NOT believe in the God of the Bible. I told him about the Voluntary Servitude the Bible endorses, but he insists on debating about God endorsing Involuntary Servitude; citing Leviticus 25. I said, “I see what you are saying; you're drawing a distinction between the acceptable Servitude of a Jew to a Jew, and the unacceptable Slavery of Gentiles to a Jew. May I suggest that these Verses are a Type for the New Testament; If Israel were not permitted to buy people, then Peter couldn’t have said Jesus bought the Heretics.” The Lord Jesus Christ couldn’t have Purchased the World, if it were not legal for Jews to purchase Gentiles; and be their Sovereign…

If it were illegal for Jews to own Slaves, the Jewish Jesus Christ wouldn't have been able to buy the World from Satan; who gained Dominion from Adam, through the Fall. It is like the Louisiana Purchase; Dominion over the Land and the People was purchased. ~ But you Object, “What’s all this Slavery guff? I’ve never been a Slave”. When you Sin, you’re a Slave to Sin and Satan; have you ever told a Lie? What do YOU call people who Lie to you? If you’ve ever found yourself compelled to tell a Lie and you couldn’t help yourself, you are a Slave to Sin and Satan; or you were. You’re still a Slave to Sin but now you are Christ’s Slave as he paid for his Kingdom with his Blood. Your Lies used to deliver you out of trouble but now that you have a new Master, they bring you under his Judgment. As God Incarnate, the Son of God owns you; but through the 'Golgatha Purchase', Jesus, the Second Adam, bought All of Humanity. ~ If the Bible is true, then you are the Slave of Christ; awaiting either swift destruction; or Forgiveness of Sin...

Forgiveness of Sins is found only in one Name under heaven. ~ For God so loved the World he gave us his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him shall not swiftly perish, but have everlasting Life. Jesus Christ bore the Sin of the world while dying on a Cross, to pay the Death Penalty God requires for our Trespasses and Sins; but he arose from the Grave to prepare a place for us in Heaven to be with him. We’re Saved by the Gracious Forgiveness of God, through Faith in Jesus Christ and what HE'S done for us; instead of anything we could ever do for ourselves. Repent of your Sins, Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord God, and become his Voluntary Servant at a Bible loving Church. ~ Sinners are Involuntary Servants of Jesus Christ, as they choose their Sin over their Righteous Master; remaining Voluntary Slaves to Sin…

1st Corinthians 7:22-23; KJV; For the one who was a slave when called to faith in the Lord is the Lord's freed person; similarly, the one who was free when called is Christ's slave. You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of human beings.

 

[Josheb]

I’ve recently been debating with an Atheist who uses Slavery as a reason to NOT believe in the God of the Bible. I told him about the Voluntary Servitude the Bible endorses, but he insists on debating about God endorsing Involuntary Servitude; citing Leviticus 25. I said, “I see what you are saying; you're drawing a distinction between the acceptable Servitude of a Jew to a Jew, and the unacceptable Slavery of Gentiles to a Jew. May I suggest that these Verses are a Type for the New Testament; If Israel were not permitted to buy people, then Peter couldn’t have said Jesus bought the Heretics.” The Lord Jesus Christ couldn’t have Purchased the World, if it were not legal for Jews to purchase Gentiles; and be their Sovereign…

Did you tell him how stupid that is?


I refuse to believe in God because there were slaves in the Old Testament!


How enslaved is that?

 

[ReverendRV]

Did you tell him how stupid that is?


I refuse to believe in God because there were slaves in the Old Testament!


How enslaved is that?

Yeah; imagine the Crook judging the Judge?

 

[Josheb]

Yeah; imagine the Crook judging the Judge?

Well, I can imagine the crook trying to judge the Judge.....

.....in that brief fraction of a nanosecond before the crook's incineration. I wonder if that's time enough to open the mouth, utter a sound, and raise a finger in protest .


More circumspectly, I was only half jesting. I would never be as confrontational is post 154 but I might repeat back to the atheist his own argument to see if his/her own words would sink in to his own brain and its folly recognized. But first I'd try to determine whether or not he's an atheist or an antitheist. What's the difference? Antitheists are disingenuous. They have no sincere interest in reading, hearing, learning, considering or, most importantly, changing. Their participation in a (faux) conversation is merely and solely for the purpose of trolling theists and self-aggrandizement (yeah, I really showed that Christian what's what). An atheist will give at least a modicum of due diligence to his own presuppositions (is that what I really said? do I actually believe that?). In addition to sorting out the fools from the merely ignorant , the presuppositional approach has the potential advantage of creating relationship and authenticity where none exists in the competition of evidential or class approaches. One of the most powerful human experiences is that of feeling heard. Make an atheist feel heard and he might reconsider everything he was told about theists (hey, that guy, RevRV, isn't such a bad bloke. He's not like the other Christians. I'm looking forward to chatting with him again). But it is not without its own risks of unnecessarily triggering defenses.

That "argument" in Post 153 was too good to resist. Put that dross back in his own lap (gently, kindly, hopefully) and see if he can sit with it. Your response is commendable. Maybe he can see the allegory of everyone's enslavement to their own shortcomings (which we'd call "sin") and recognize he doesn't live up to his own standards, much less that of some would-be hypothetical big-G God who has promised a way out of that slavery, er, I mean, conundrum.

If.....then..... else.....

If a God exists.....

Then we are not in charge....

Else we have reason to reject the God Hypothesis.

So just show me you are (or someone else is) in charge . I'll wait.