Can you be saved without believing, understanding, or having heard about 'justification by faith'?

[prism]

I was trying to say that you don't have to use the 'right words' but that those are still the issues you will wrestle with, and Romans says so.

(We might be talking past each other.)
I no longer (I used to) wrestle with justification by faith alone through Christ alone even while I was already justified

 

[donadams]

Question for red b.

How are we born again?

 

[donadams]

Question for all

Can a man be saved without a priest?

 

[donadams]

Question for all

Are you saved?

 

[Arial]

Question for all

Can a man be saved without a priest?

Man can only be saved by and in a Priest and that is the High Priest forever on the order of Melchizedek of Hebrews. Jesus Christ my Lord. Faith in Him and Him alone is the only means of salvation. And it is sufficient unto salvation.

 

[Arial]

Question for all

Are you saved?

Are you?

 

[donadams]

Man can only be saved by and in a Priest and that is the High Priest forever on the order of Melchizedek of Hebrews. Jesus Christ my Lord. Faith in Him and Him alone is the only means of salvation. And it is sufficient unto salvation.

Then who are His “low priests”?
Thanks

 

[donadams]

Are you?

No!

Redeemed
Justified
Processing Sanctification

But not entered into salvation until we endure to the end! Mk 13:13
Matt 24:13

Our spiritual fathers have care for our souls, if we were saved they would have nothing to care for.

You know not when your master comes so be prepared. Why if you are saved it would not matter, the doctrine of “i’m saved” negates the word of God.

Thanks

 

[Arial]

Then who are His “low priests”?
Thanks

Where do you get the expression "low priests" from and what do you mean by it?

 

[donadams]

Where do you get the expression "low priests" from and what do you mean by it?

Logical conclusion:

If there is a new Adam is it not logical to ask who is the new eve?
If Christ is king, is it not logical to ask who is the queen?
If Christ is High priest it would be logical to ask who are His low priests?

High priest has authority over lower priests

Thanks

 

[atpollard]

Can you be saved without believing, understanding, or having heard about 'justification by faith'?​

If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. One believes with the heart, resulting in righteousness, and one confesses with the mouth, resulting in salvation. - Romans 10:9-10 [CSB]

What did Paul say?
Does it mention belief in "justification by faith" as a prerequisite?

Nope. It said "believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved". ['nuff said.]

 

[atpollard]

Question for all

Are you saved?

Yup.

• past [Eph 2:4-7 NASB20] 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our wrongdoings, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the boundless riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
• present [1Co 15:1-2 NASB20] 1 Now I make known to you, brothers [and sisters,] the gospel which I preached to you, which you also received, in which you also stand, 2 by which you also are saved, if you hold firmly to the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
• future perfect [1Co 1:18 NASB20] 18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
• guaranteed ending; work Father started, Son completes [Jhn 6:37-40 NKJV] "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day."

 

[donadams]

Yup.

• past [Eph 2:4-7 NASB20] 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our wrongdoings, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the boundless riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
• present [1Co 15:1-2 NASB20] 1 Now I make known to you, brothers [and sisters,] the gospel which I preached to you, which you also received, in which you also stand, 2 by which you also are saved, if you hold firmly to the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
• future perfect [1Co 1:18 NASB20] 18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
• guaranteed ending; work Father started, Son completes [Jhn 6:37-40 NKJV] "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day."

Redemption accomplished by Christ apart from us not justification, sanctification, or salvation

 

[3 Resurrections]

High priest has authority over lower priests

Every saint without exception with the gift of the Holy Spirit inside is given this position of being what you refer to as a "low priest". These are all under the single "Great High Priest", which is Christ Jesus. That was the significance of having the outer curtain of the holy place torn from top to bottom at Christ's crucifixion death. The barrier from the outer court into the holy place was opened for every person to enter at that time.

There is one God, and only one mediator needed between God and men; the man Christ Jesus (1 Timothy 2:5).

 

[donadams]

Every saint without exception with the gift of the Holy Spirit inside is given this position of being what you refer to as a "low priest". These are all under the single "Great High Priest", which is Christ Jesus. That was the significance of having the outer curtain of the holy place torn from top to bottom at Christ's crucifixion death. The barrier from the outer court into the holy place was opened for every person to enter at that time.

There is one God, and only one mediator needed between God and men; the man Christ Jesus (1 Timothy 2:5).

You have added to scripture!
That’s your interpretation!
Where scripture say it?
Scripture is the only authority according to the cola’s not us
The veil never represented or meant that in the first place, the Holy of holies represented heaven and the veil represented that fact that with the fall of Adam heaven was closed, Christ’s atonement opened heaven!

One mediator on the level of justice and the covenant but anyone in the communion of saints can pray and intercede for each other

The members of Christ are in the royal priesthood you right but Christ is eternal and high priest according to the order of melchisedec so His low or ordained ministerial priest “offer His sacrificel” must be of the same order!
Thanks

 

[3 Resurrections]

You have added to scripture!
That’s your interpretation!
Where scripture say it?

No, I have not added to scripture in saying that all believers are priests under the single Great High Priest Jesus Christ. According to Hebrews 10:18-22, all of us as believers have direct access to God as priests, and can boldly enter into the "holiest" due to our single intercessor, our High Priest Jesus Christ.

Pay really close attention to the language in Hebrews 10:21-22, because it is describing the saints' identity as priests. "And having an high priest over the house of God; Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water."

This language of being "sprinkled" and "washed" is a reference to the consecration rites which were performed when Aaron and his sons were originally set up as priests over the tabernacle. Moses washed them with water at the door of the tabernacle (Exodus 29:4) and also sprinkled them with blood from the altar and the anointing oil in Exodus 29:21 before they were allowed to serve as priests.

Hebrews 10:21-22 describes the role that all believers have as consecrated priests under our single Great High Priest. We need no other man's representation than Christ's before God's throne in order for our prayers to be heard. We can "draw near with a true heart in full assurance" to God at any time without any other priest between us.

 

[ammi]

True or False?

(Various quotes from the Internet)

"For Paul it is not the doctrine of justification that is ‘the power of God for salvation’ (Rom. 1:16), but the gospel of Jesus Christ."

"It is perfectly possible to be saved by believing in Jesus Christ without ever having heard of justification by faith."

"By “the gospel” Paul does not mean “justification by faith.” He means the announcement that the crucified and risen Jesus is Lord. To believe this message—to give believing allegiance to Jesus as Messiah and Lord—is to be justified in the present by faith (whether or not one has even heard of justification by faith). Justification by faith is a second-order doctrine: To believe it is both to have assurance (believing that one will be vindicated on the last day [Romans 5:1-5]) and to know that one belongs in the single family of God, called to share table fellowship with all other believers without distinction (Galatians 2:11-21)."

"But one is not justified by faith by believing in justification by faith, but by believing in Jesus."

Agree? Disagree?

"Justification by faith" means believing that what Jesus did saves me. I was condemned to hell by my sin. But the Father loved me so much that He had His sinless son Jesus die the death of a sinner so that I could give my sinfulness to Him and receive from Him His righteousness. He took my death and gave me His life. The Divine Exchange. It's rather simple, actually.
I am saved by faith in what Christ did on the cross. This faith was given to me as a gift. I didn't know any of this existed until the first time I heard John 3:16. The truth pierced my heart like a sword. In an instant I went from a non-believer to a believer. I wasn't even looking for God. Someone read John 3:16 to me and I believed it. And I have ever since.

 

[donadams]

No, I have not added to scripture in saying that all believers are priests under the single Great High Priest Jesus Christ. According to Hebrews 10:18-22, all of us as believers have direct access to God as priests, and can boldly enter into the "holiest" due to our single intercessor, our High Priest Jesus Christ.

Pay really close attention to the language in Hebrews 10:21-22, because it is describing the saints' identity as priests. "And having an high priest over the house of God; Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water."

This language of being "sprinkled" and "washed" is a reference to the consecration rites which were performed when Aaron and his sons were originally set up as priests over the tabernacle. Moses washed them with water at the door of the tabernacle (Exodus 29:4) and also sprinkled them with blood from the altar and the anointing oil in Exodus 29:21 before they were allowed to serve as priests.

Hebrews 10:21-22 describes the role that all believers have as consecrated priests under our single Great High Priest. We need no other man's representation than Christ's before God's throne in order for our prayers to be heard. We can "draw near with a true heart in full assurance" to God at any time without any other priest between us.

No one is doubting your assertion that all the members of Christ (believers as you like to say, even though a believer is not a Christian) are priests according to the order of the royal priesthood but Christ is high priest according to the order of melchisedec, so there must be low priests of the same order offering the same sacrifice.

Mal 1:11

11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.

Thanks

 

[3 Resurrections]

No one is doubting your assertion that all the members of Christ (believers as you like to say, even though a believer is not a Christian) are priests according to the order of the royal priesthood but Christ is high priest according to the order of melchisedec, so there must be low priests of the same order offering the same sacrifice.

"A believer is not a Christian"?? Are you serious? Being called a "believer" is typical of the manner in which NT scriptures identified those who were "in Christ".

When you say that "low priests" must offer the same sacrifice as the high priest Christ under the order of Melchizedek, we do not offer the same offering that Christ did. Christ offered up Himself and His own life-blood to God - one sacrifice on one occasion only, which obtained eternal redemption for us, as taught in Hebrews 7:27 and Hebrews 9:12, 9:28, 10:12-14, etc. "But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God...For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."

The sacrifices that we make are our bodies which we offer as "a living sacrifice" in service to God, as Paul said in Romans 12:1.

 

[donadams]

"A believer is not a Christian"?? Are you serious? Being called a "believer" is typical of the manner in which NT scriptures identified those who were "in Christ".

When you say that "low priests" must offer the same sacrifice as the high priest Christ under the order of Melchizedek, we do not offer the same offering that Christ did. Christ offered up Himself and His own life-blood to God - one sacrifice on one occasion only, which obtained eternal redemption for us, as taught in Hebrews 7:27 and Hebrews 9:12, 9:28, 10:12-14, etc. "But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God...For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."

The sacrifices that we make are our bodies which we offer as "a living sacrifice" in service to God, as Paul said in Romans 12:1.

Faith and baptism are required for members of the new covenant and union with Christ. Gal 3:27

Christ offered an eternal sacrifice
Heb 7:17 for he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Eternal priest: and the nature of a priest is to offer sacrifice, and eternal sacrifice, and the “it” in “it is finished” is words the high priest says at the consummation of the Passover sacrifice. The passive was a perpetual sacrifice.

and the new covenant “New Testament “ Passover sacrifice in His blood is an eternal sacrifice.

Once for all, once bloody on the cross by Christ and for all by his priests.

Mal 1:11
For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.

Pure offering is a clean ablation or unbloody sacrifice

Thanks