Can a non elect person get saved?

[prism]

Where in Scripture does it say Adam was a slave to Satan?

I'm still looking for the answer to my question from post #63.. (I'm referring about Adam before the Fall).

 

[David Lamb]

Where in Scripture does it say Adam was a slave to Satan?

There isn't a Scripture verse that specifically says, "Adam was a slave of Satan." However, Jesus did say:

“Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin.” (Joh 8:34 NKJV)

That strongly implies that after the Fall, Adam was a slave of sin and Satan. Before the Fall, which is what you were asking about, He wasn't a slave.

 

[JIM]

Before the Fall, which is what you were asking about, He wasn't a slave.

Then why did he sin?

 

[David Lamb]

Then why did he sin?

Well, the account says that Satan, in the form of the serpent, tempted Eve, who took the fruit of the forbidden tree, and gave some to Adam, who had been told by God not to eat the fruit of that tree.

 

[Red Baker]

Then why did he sin?

Very simple Jim~God alone is immutable, neither angels, nor flesh and blood are so, unless you are the Son of God, which Jesus was.

God's election preserved around one third of the angels, the others he left them to themselves, even though created as glorious as they were, still they did not possess the infinite attributes that God does have.

Romans 1:4​

“And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:”

Romans 8:3​

“For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:”

Psalms 89:19​

“Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one chosen out of the people.”

 

[JIM]

Very simple Jim~God alone is immutable, neither angels, nor flesh and blood are so, unless you are the Son of God, which Jesus was.

God's election preserved around one third of the angels, the others he left them to themselves, even though created as glorious as they were, still they did not possess the infinite attributes that God does have.

Romans 1:4​

“And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:”

Romans 8:3​

“For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:”

Psalms 89:19​

“Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one chosen out of the people.”

I must be a bit dim this morning Red. I don't see an answer to my question in anything you posted there.

 

[Red Baker]

I must be a bit dim this morning Red. I don't see an answer to my question in anything you posted there.

Jim I can do no better than pray the same prayer Elisha prayed...... for you:

2 Kings 6:17​

“And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.”

 

[JIM]

Jim I can do no better than pray the same prayer Elisha prayed...... for you:

2 Kings 6:17​

“And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.”

And you think that is why Adam sinned? I still don't get it.

 

[prism]

Then why did he sin?

1 Timothy 2:14 NKJV
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.

Adam willingly transgressed, while Eve was deceived.

 

[Mr GLee]

Then why did he sin?

I would offer.

In all cases the father of lies' false prophecies

They sinned when Adam who was to represent Christ the invisible head the husband. Adam was to wash the bride with the water of the word.
Doctrines that fall like rain .

He failed to protect Eve from false prophecy with the water of the word.

They both sinned by believing the same false prophecy. Four lying words (neither shall you touch ) Violating the law not to add or subtract from even one word from the perfect .(sola scriptura)

Adam is used to signify invisible Christ, our Husband who as if eternal God gave the revelations of the Father to Adam .Thou shall not eat . Adam failed to pass on the prophecy needed to protect Eve from false prohecy . Eve who signified the whole Church as the bride . . the prophetess or preacher of the word .

According to the same order found in Exodus 7. The development of the priesthood of believers. Christ reigning from heaven in believers as Ambassadors and Pilgrims here on earth.

Exodus 7King James Version And the Lord said unto Moses, See, have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron (to represent the bride) thy brother shall be thy prophet. Thou shalt speak all that I command thee: and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he send the children of Israel out of his land.

The tree as metaphor used in parables was hid in the center. Parables teach how to walk or understand by faith the eternal unseen things of Christ. hiding the spiritual understanding. The spirit of false pride led by the lust of the flesh drew Adam and Eve hand and hand . to the middle. The lust of the eye took over .

When touched they did not die so they ate the fruit of false prophecy.

The father of lies a murderer from that beginning (John 8:44)

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the" pride of life", is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Same principle below . Drawn by the flesh satisfied by the temporal. . what the eyes see. The two building block of false pride. Flesh ....eyes

Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

 

[Mr GLee]

Very simple Jim~God alone is immutable, neither angels, nor flesh and blood are so, unless you are the Son of God, which Jesus was.

God's election preserved around one third of the angels, the others he left them to themselves, even though created as glorious as they were, still they did not possess the infinite attributes that God does have.

Romans 1:4​

“And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:”

Romans 8:3​

“For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:”

Psalms 89:19​

“Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one chosen out of the people.”

I would offer.

Yes Jesus the Son of man . . . likeness of sinful flesh. . "the temporal what the eyes see" after the order of Melchedik a theophany the eternal Priest

Psalm 110:4 The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

A theophany. . vision like that of Melchizedek could not do what dying flesh signified as sinful needed. . Take away the sting of it "the letter" death. .

.His mercy seasoned with grace teaches us to say no to ungodliness empowering believers to do the will of the Father.

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

1 Corinthians 15:55-57Good News Translation “Where, Death, is your victory? Where, Death, is your power to hurt?” Death gets its power to hurt from sin, and sin gets its power from the Law. (the letter) But thanks be to God who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ!

 

[makesends]

Those are not mutually exclusive. It is only you who declare it to be so. But I would challenge you that if it is not a function of the individuals, then you have no way to even know that you are one of the elect.

And your problem with that is...? Truth is, as I am walking in obedience and pursuit of Christ and in prayer and so many other things —i.e. 'walking with God'— "the Spirit [of God] Himself witnesses with my spirit that I am a child of God."

Short of that I have the inestimable pleasure and satisfaction rooted in the sure knowledge that God will accomplish absolutely everything he set out to do, and his happiness and satisfaction with what he is doing more than wipes my concerns away, as to merely avoiding eternal condemnation. If I am wrong, and I am only reprobate, then so be it —God has been more than I can ask or think in this life— and what he does is only good.

 

[makesends]

Only by the false logic of the argument that being a slave to Satan is the primary cause of sinning.

Who is saying that anyone is a slave to Satan? Do you mean, slave to sin?

 

[makesends]

So we are back to the absurd idea that God doesn't really want to set most of humanity free and thus is the only real basis for any not to be free.

Besides the obvious anthropomorphisms you demonstrate with that statement, can you show how that is not a strawman, that anyone claims that "God doesn't [intend] most [to be] free and thus is the only real basis for any not to be free."? I don't know anyone who claims that; just a lot of people claiming that the Reformed and Calvinists claim that.

 

[prism]

Who is saying that anyone is a slave to Satan? Do you mean, slave to sin?

This was the full quote of 'mine' from post #51.

I'll grant you this much, Adam had free will, since then, mankind has been a slave to satan and his own lusts.

based on...

Ephesians 2:2 KJV
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

 

[makesends]

This was the full quote of 'mine' from post #51.


based on...

Ephesians 2:2 KJV
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

So is that a no? Why can't you just straight answer the question?

 

[prism]

So is that a no? Why can't you just straight answer the question?

It's an explanation in full context of what I had written. So no, before the fall Adam was not a slave to satan, but after the fall, but,yes,..because,

Ephesians 2:2 KJV
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

 

[JIM]

It's an explanation in full context of what I had written. So no, before the fall Adam was not a slave to satan, but after the fall, but,yes,..because,

Ephesians 2:2 KJV
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

The children of disobedience are those who disobeyed, not simply descendants of Adam. So before each disobeys, i.e., before each sins, he is not according to the course of this world. By the way, so far as I can find, we are never a slave to Satan. We were once slaves to sin.

 

[Mr GLee]

It's an explanation in full context of what I had written. So no, before the fall Adam was not a slave to satan, but after the fall, but,yes,..because,

Ephesians 2:2 KJV
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Yes after he was enticed.

 

[Red Baker]

By the way, so far as I can find, we are never a slave to Satan. We were once slaves to sin.

Jim, the fall has issued in man’s becoming the bondslave of Satan. That is another mysterious but very real thing, about which we can know nothing except what is revealed in Holy Writ; but its teaching leaves us in no doubt about the fact. It reveals that men are morally the devil’s children (Acts 13:10; I John 3:10), that they are his captives (2 Timothy 2:26) and under his power (Acts 26:18; Col. 1:13), that they are determined to do what he wants (John 8:44). He is described as the strong man armed, who holds undisputed possession of the sinner’s soul, until a stronger than he dispossesses him (Luke 11:21-22). It speaks of men being "oppressed of the devil" (Acts 10:38), and declares, "The 'god' of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them" (2 Corinthians 4:4). The heart of fallen man is the throne on which Satan reigns, and all the sons of Adam are naturally inclined to yield themselves slaves to him. The awful reality of his enslaving men was authenticated beyond the possibility of doubt by the cases of demoniacal possession in Christ’s day.

2nd Timothy 2:26​

“And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”

Ephesians 2:2​

“Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:”