The Necessity of All of TULIP

[Eternally-Grateful]

People are kind of either one or the other.

For example: if you believe man has ability, even if that ability is just the tiniest bit, to respond to the Gospel call then you don't believe mans depravity is "total".

If you see even one condition on election then you don't believe in unconditional election.

However, if on the other hand you note the OP was incorrect to note there was only two options available in election as actually a 3rd option was perfectly justified for God to have taken advantage of... but for God... (@Arial) then your just making a point within the same point, which doesn't affect belief in unconditional election at all.

I think this still limits.

If everyone is trying to make it an arminain vs calvin issue. They will only see what they \want to see.

I never actually looked at any doctrine in an arminian or calvin way until I was introduced to the term “tulip” about 20 years ago. I never thought of depravity, Election, Persevering or any of these terms. I would venture to say most people did not.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

That's it, not to save anyone.

I think freewill people think God owes them something, when God owes us nothing. What He gives is His gift.

See this is what I mean

I do not think God owes me. Anything, and I offended that anyone would even think such a thing..

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I think my jaw hit the floor the first time I heard the word "fair" in relation to God and salvation. Like literally

though I have decided my own speech and word usage and even at times my own thinking can definitely improve. Definitions do matter, and I don't always have the respect for language that I should when trying to communicate. I do need to work on that.

I do not even know ow what to say.

I think my point is being proven right here

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

It’s not. Think of the five points as five legs on a chair. If you remove one leg, the chair collapses.

Now this I agree with

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Agreed, everyone has isms and doctrines, there is no escaping it.

This may be true. But when you try to force a person into an ISm that they do not have anythign to do with. You have just made a critical error of judgment. And just most likely started a war that there ill be no winner Because all forms of normal communication have just been shattered

 

[Carbon]

This may be true. But when you try to force a person into an ISm that they do not have anythign to do with. You have just made a critical error of judgment. And just most likely started a war that there ill be no winner Because all forms of normal communication have just been shattered

Well, I'm not so sure about it being a critical error of judgement, but, as far as starting a war and shattering communication? Sure, very possible.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Well, I'm not so sure about it being a critical error of judgement, but, as far as starting a war and shattering communication? Sure, very possible.

I see it all the time

Again, If someone mentions OSAS. They are a calvinist. Whether they are or they are not

If someone mentions free will. They are arminian whether they are or not

I have been in chatroom where the wars got so great the mods had to ban multiple people from both sides

 

[Hazelelponi]

I think this still limits.

If everyone is trying to make it an arminain vs calvin issue. They will only see what they \want to see.

I never actually looked at any doctrine in an arminian or calvin way until I was introduced to the term “tulip” about 20 years ago. I never thought of depravity, Election, Persevering or any of these terms. I would venture to say most people did not.

I'm just been trying to understand your position in a framework I can wrap my head around a little.

That's all. Just going for understanding.

 

[Carbon]

I see it all the time

Again, If someone mentions OSAS. They are a calvinist. Whether they are or they are not

OSAS? Really? I wouldn't use that, I don't think many mature Calvinists do either. Perserverance of the saints is much better and much more accurate with God's word.

If someone mentions free will. They are arminian whether they are or not

Not necessarily. Just about every religion believes in free will for salvation, except Calvinism.

I have been in chatroom where the wars got so great the mods had to ban multiple people from both sides

Wow.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I'm just been trying to understand your position in a framework I can wrap my head around a little.

That's all. Just going for understanding.

Keep asking questions sis.. thats how we learn.. I think you will see we are probably more alike that you think

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

OSAS? Really? I wouldn't use that, I don't think many mature Calvinists do either. Perserverance of the saints is much better and much more accurate with God's word.

I do not use that word either. I use the term eternal security, or better yet, the term God uses eternal life. I think OSAS is a derogatory term to calvinists if I am honest.

Perseverance. I used to agree. But I have within the past year changed my mind, We do not persever. Gods keeps us

Not necessarily. Just about every religion believes in free will for salvation, except Calvinism.

Oh I agree. Just showing what I have seen in many a chat room

Arminians call me a calvinist. And calvinist call me an arminian.. and I have been accused of being wish washy and changing my beliefs to match the argument or whatever, which I have not changed anything, it just depends on what the argument is.

Wow.

Yeah, I had a great friend I used to love to get into the word with. He was one that was banned. I have not been able to find him..

I actually left the chatroom for awhile. And had my account locked. Because I was so saddened by what was happening so I left. I eventually went back in under a new nic. But it was never the same

 

[Rescued One]

People are kind of either one or the other.

For example: if you believe man has ability, even if that ability is just the tiniest bit, to respond to the Gospel call then you don't believe mans depravity is "total".

If you see even one condition on election then you don't believe in unconditional election.

However, if on the other hand you note the OP was incorrect to note there was only two options available in election as actually a 3rd option was perfectly justified for God to have taken advantage of... but for God... (@Arial) then your just making a point within the same point, which doesn't affect belief in unconditional election at all.

Thanks to repeated verbal abuse I received growing up, God used it to keep me from being egotistical enough to reject total depravity --- LOL!

 

[Rescued One]

Perseverance. I used to agree. But I have within the past year changed my mind, We do not persever. Gods keeps us

i agree because scripture repeatedly teaches that God keeps us.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

i agree because scripture repeatedly teaches that God keeps us.

He will never leave us not forsake us. Where can we go that he is not there? No where, He saved us