Calminian? 3-pointer? 4-pointer? 4 1/2 pointer?

[Carbon]

Has anyone heard the term Calminian? I have throughout the years.
I have had people tell me they are 3 point, 4 point and 4 1/2 point Calvionists. An old pastor of mine told me he goes back and forth between a 5-pointer to a 4 1/2-pointer.

Personally, I don't think it works. I believe a Calvinist is a 5 pointer.
It's all or nothing. It's like no woman can be 80% pregnant. She is either pregnant 100% or she is not pregnant at all.

Let me clarify something, I am not trying to say if someone claims to be a 4 1/2 pointer they are not a Christian. This has nothing to do with it. One does not have to be a Calvinist to be a Christian. But I am saying that they are not a Calvinists. (If I can use the words) if the system is to hold together all 5 points hold each other together, if you remove one point, the system collapses.

An example remove the "L" from Limited TULIP. Can you see what happens to the others? Irresistible grace for one example

 

[ReverendRV]

Has anyone heard the term Calminian? I have throughout the years.
I have had people tell me they are 3 point, 4 point and 4 1/2 point Calvionists. An old pastor of mine told me he goes back and forth between a 5-pointer to a 4 1/2-pointer.

Personally, I don't think it works. I believe a Calvinist is a 5 pointer.
It's all or nothing. It's like no woman can be 80% pregnant. She is either pregnant 100% or she is not pregnant at all.

Let me clarify something, I am not trying to say if someone claims to be a 4 1/2 pointer they are not a Christian. This has nothing to do with it. One does not have to be a Calvinist to be a Christian. But I am saying that they are not a Calvinists. (If I can use the words) if the system is to hold together all 5 points hold each other together, if you remove one point, the system collapses.

An example remove the "L" from Limited TULIP. Can you see what happens to the others? Irresistible grace for one example

I agree, it's why I claim 5-Point Calvinism. Though I may be in a similar boat as @His clay , because I explain Limited Atonement differently than Calvinists are used to. I'm still a 5-Pointer...

For instance: the Atonement is Limited because the Cross of Christ only bears the Sin of the Saints, since we nailed them to his Cross; even if there is plenty of room for the Sins of the world to be Nailed to it. We've nailed our Sins to the Cross of Christ; thus only our Sins were Borne...

 

[Carbon]

I agree, it's why I claim 5-Point Calvinism. Though I may be in a similar boat as @His clay , because I explain Limited Atonement differently than Calvinists are used to. I'm still a 5-Pointer...

For instance: the Atonement is Limited because the Cross of Christ only bears the Sin of the Saints, since we nailed them to his Cross; even if there is plenty of room for the Sins of the world to be Nailed to it. We've nailed our Sins to the Cross of Christ; thus only our Sins were Borne...

Huh? We nailed our sins to the cross? Just how did we do that?

I though they were imputed unto Christ by the Father.

 

[Carbon]

Huh? We nailed our sins to the cross? Just how did we do that?

I though they were imputed unto Christ by the Father.

By saying we nailed our sins to the cross leaves room for a lot of error and confusion.

 

[ReverendRV]

Huh? We nailed our sins to the cross? Just how did we do that?

I though they were imputed unto Christ by the Father.

Metaphorically...

 

[ReverendRV]

Metaphorically...

INRI ~ by ReverendRV * June 2

Colossians 2:13-14 NIV; He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.

Saint Paul wrote this Epistle, a Letter, to the Church at Colossae. I’ve heard that this Epistle is a shorter version of the Book of Romans. I really like the Epistle to Rome because it is so deep; but my nature is to prefer things short and sweet. After the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, the Church expanded so quickly; why wouldn’t it? Saints Peter, James and John taught the Church at Israel; but Saint Paul was sent to the Gentiles. As a Missionary, Paul was always building Churches, so of course he taught much about being Saved. There has been NO greater a Theologian than him, and volumes can be written about the things he taught the Church; but there came a day he determined to know only Jesus Christ and him Crucified…

He taught us about how we are Legally indebted to God for breaking his Heavenly Commandments, because his Kingdom includes all the World. When we break worldly Laws, there is a Fine to pay; and this is a Debt. ~ Are you indebted to God? Have you told a Lie? What do you call people who Lie? Thou shalt not Lie. God Charges you for the Crime of Lying. You say “Then he’s got to Charge everyone if he’s going to Charge me!”. Have you ever Stolen? What do you call people that Steal? God could probably Charge everyone with this too. The Bible says if you have broken one Commandment, you are Guilty of breaking all of them; Paul says the Charges against us, have already Condemned us. Being Condemned, you will go to Hell; does this bother you? ~ What we need is to have all of our Charges taken away…

Do you want to know what Charge was nailed to the Cross of Christ? Jesus was tried by Rome, yet Pilate couldn’t find anything wrong with him. But to appease the Sanhedrin, he had Jesus Crucified anyway. Rome always nailed a plank to their Crosses, with the Criminal’s Accusation written on it. At the top of Jesus’ Cross was written in Latin “Jesus of Nazareth King of the Jews”. If you’ve seen paintings of Jesus on the Cross with a sign that reads “INRI”, this is shorthand for the accusation written on his plank. ~ For God so Loved the world he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him will not perish but have eternal Life. Jesus Kept God’s Law all of his life; this is why Caesar could only nail a TRUE accusation to his Cross. As a Substitute, he will Accept your Charges and take the Punishment you deserve; by bleeding to death on the Cross. He was buried but arose from the grave, ascending to the right hand of God his Father. We’re Saved by Grace through Faith without Works, lest we should boast. Repent of your Sins, Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord God; then join an Evangelical Church. ~ Praise God he allows me to nail MY Charges to HIS Cross; please don’t read them while you’re there. What might you nail to his Cross if you could get rid of it? Nail it to the Cross, so Jesus can be Charged with it instead of you…

1st Peter 2:24 NIV; “He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.”

 

[Carbon]

Metaphorically...

or not.

...............can't you see, saying we nailed our sins to the cross leaves room for a lot of error and confusion.

 

[ReverendRV]

or not.


But can't you see, saying we nailed our sins to the cross leaves room for a lot of error and confusion.

Like what?

 

[Carbon]

Like what?

nevermind.

 

[armylngst]

Has anyone heard the term Calminian? I have throughout the years.
I have had people tell me they are 3 point, 4 point and 4 1/2 point Calvionists. An old pastor of mine told me he goes back and forth between a 5-pointer to a 4 1/2-pointer.

Personally, I don't think it works. I believe a Calvinist is a 5 pointer.
It's all or nothing. It's like no woman can be 80% pregnant. She is either pregnant 100% or she is not pregnant at all.

Let me clarify something, I am not trying to say if someone claims to be a 4 1/2 pointer they are not a Christian. This has nothing to do with it. One does not have to be a Calvinist to be a Christian. But I am saying that they are not a Calvinists. (If I can use the words) if the system is to hold together all 5 points hold each other together, if you remove one point, the system collapses.

An example remove the "L" from Limited TULIP. Can you see what happens to the others? Irresistible grace for one example

The four-pointer is one who is stuck on Limited Atonement usually. A proper explanation of what it means usually helps take care of this. However, there are those who don't want to face it. I presented the sufficiency-efficiency explanation, and was told I was not allowed to do that.

 

[Carbon]

The four-pointer is one who is stuck on Limited Atonement usually. A proper explanation of what it means usually helps take care of this. However, there are those who don't want to face it. I presented the sufficiency-efficiency explanation, and was told I was not allowed to do that.

Not only do they lack a proper explanation of limited atonement, but the rest as well.

 

[armylngst]

Not only do they lack a proper explanation of limited atonement, but the rest as well.

At least I can understand why they may find limited atonement to be a speed bump. If you don't frame it properly, it really does sound wrong. I like John MacArthurs explanation. If you believe in unlimited atonement you are a heretical universalist.

 

[makesends]

Like what?

Like denying Grace. I don't mean you are denying Grace, but the statement is rather more poetic than precise, and leaves room for self-deterministic minds to claim credit.

Yet! Yet, there are several places where God speaks the same sort of way —"Get yourself a new heart", etc.

 

[ReverendRV]

Like denying Grace. I don't mean you are denying Grace, but the statement is rather more poetic than precise, and leaves room for self-deterministic minds to claim credit.

Yet! Yet, there are several places where God speaks the same sort of way —"Get yourself a new heart", etc.

I agree here...

Sure, the Passage about Nailing our Sins to the Cross is about God Nailing them to the Cross; I'm a Monergist. But I like how you said it's Poetic...

So there is room for Criticism in all my Gospel Tracts; all my debate points. Like the Gospel Tract I used Astronomy with a Naturalistic take on things; I got criticized on that because it didn't teach Creationism. But sometimes I speak someone else's language, to reach them where they are at...

 

[David1701]

Metaphorically...

We had no input to the atonement, metaphorically or otherwise. It was all accomplished by the Lord, on behalf of his elect.

 

[David1701]

I agree here...

Sure, the Passage about Nailing our Sins to the Cross is about God Nailing them to the Cross; I'm a Monergist. But I like how you said it's Poetic...

So there is room for Criticism in all my Gospel Tracts; all my debate points. Like the Gospel Tract I used Astronomy with a Naturalistic take on things; I got criticized on that because it didn't teach Creationism. But sometimes I speak someone else's language, to reach them where they are at...

You have to be careful with that approach, otherwise what you are reaching them with (at least as they perceive it) might be what they already think.

 

[ReverendRV]

You have to be careful with that approach, otherwise what you are reaching them with (at least as they perceive it) might be what they already think.

In more than a one page Gospel Tract, I am careful. I suspect that Saint Paul went on to tell the Athenians that Jesus is not an Idol; after he explained the Unknown God Idol to them...

My methods aren't that terrible. Most of my Gospel Tracts include going to Church for more...

 

[ReverendRV]

In more than a one page Gospel Tract, I am careful. I suspect that Saint Paul went on to tell the Athenians that Jesus is not an Idol; after he explained the Unknown God Idol to them...

My methods aren't that terrible. Most of my Gospel Tracts include going to Church for more...

Super God! By ReverendRV * October 11

Acts 17:23 KJV; For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.

I often hear from Atheists a popular objection to the existence of God, “Who made God? Was it Super God? And wouldn’t God be responsible to him?” ~ Paul was sent to the Gentiles as a Missionary from the Church at Jerusalem. While in Athens he found an interesting altar devoted to the ‘Unknown God’. Paul would go on to tell people the unknown god is the God of the Bible. Theology teaches that if every god were locked in a room, the god who’s will won out would be the Most High God; the Almighty God. In the Book of Exodus, the Ten Plagues are an example of the God of Israel defeating the gods of Egypt; even Beelzubub. Paul said that we all have our Being in God, the Self Existing One. The Bible says Satan is Beelzubub; a creature who has his Being in God. We see that the God of the Bible IS the Super God…

The Bible calls people gods, but with a little “g”. We have a Society in which Governors have authority over us, with the Right to judge and condemn us. ~ Have you ever had a god other than the God of the Bible? Currently there is a professional Wrestler who calls herself the Goddess of the WWE; have you ever been involved with ‘Hero Worship’? How small does your god have to be before she’s not an Idol; five foot? These are only two of God’s Ten Commandments, we haven’t even gotten to the ones we’ve surely broken like Lying and Stealing. If God judged you by his standard of Righteousness, would you be innocent or guilty? Did you say innocent?? Then the god you’re thinking of is not the Almighty God of the Bible. Would you go to Heaven or to Hell? Does this bother you?? If not, your Sins haven’t reached their full measure. Hell enlarges daily and opens its jaws like a snake after Death’s sting paralyzes you…

What you need is Life after Death! ~ For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting Life. God is a Trinity whose Will cannot be broken. Jesus Christ is the Son of God in the flesh, filled with God the Holy Spirit more than any other; and sent to us by God his Father to speak HIS words. Jesus is the Sinless Substitute for the Wrath of God, so that those who believe in him will never see God’s Wrath. God poured out his Wrath on the Cross of Christ, and Jesus poured out his blood on the Cross so that Justice would be served for the Sins he bore in our stead. Jesus died, was buried, but arose from the Grave to newness of Life! We’re Saved by the Grace of God through Faith in the Resurrected Savior Jesus Christ, apart from ANY Meritorious Works we could ever try to do to appease the Most High God. Repent of your Sins, Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord God; start reading the Bible while you look for a God fearing Church. ~ If you’re looking for a Super God to save you from the God of the Bible, stop looking; there is no other hope but his Forgiveness…

Isaiah 45:21 ESV; Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together! Who told this long ago? Who declared it of old? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

An example remove the "L" from Limited TULIP. Can you see what happens to the others? Irresistible grace for one example

You remove the L from TULIP and you have TUIP. I don't know what that is but it sounds both illegal and dangerous.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

I agree, it's why I claim 5-Point Calvinism. Though I may be in a similar boat as @His clay , because I explain Limited Atonement differently than Calvinists are used to. I'm still a 5-Pointer...

For instance: the Atonement is Limited because the Cross of Christ only bears the Sin of the Saints, since we nailed them to his Cross; even if there is plenty of room for the Sins of the world to be Nailed to it. We've nailed our Sins to the Cross of Christ; thus only our Sins were Borne...

Er...I get the impression there is some bad english/grammar/unintended stuff here. We didn't nail anything to the Cross. Not even metaphorically. Our sins were imputed to Christ. His Righteousness was imputed to us. Both of these actions are impossible for us. I'm not even going to attempt to drag in temporal mental mind knots. Maybe I'm nit picking but I certainly had nothing to do with nailing my sin to Christ's cross.