Ephesians 2:1-10, Exegetical Discussion

[makesends]

Hi thanks.

Not the most popular but it does ring true Jesus Son of man the chief apostle. One sent with prophecy The apostle other apostles prophesied to come and demonstrate the faithful power of the Father not seen.

Ephesians 2:19-21Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

(Household of faith the eternal unseen things) And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ (working in the Son of man) himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

Christ powerfully working n us with us (Emmanual)

The Christ the Holy Spirit of the Father working in dying mankind Son of man .Jesus.

Jesus became born again as a son of God. the first of many born again believer as the bride the church

Jesus the apostle sent with prophecy is not ashamed to call us brothers and sisters. They who are empowered obey the loving commandment not to call dying mankind Holy Father on earth. One not seen is in heaven

Giving us two witnesses to the one faithful work of the Fathers "let there be" labor of love

Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Mark 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

Faith= Power .No faith = no power

I'm sorry, but, once again, I can't understand you well enough to see if you've even answered my question.

 

[His clay]

Please, @makesends and @Mr GLee take this conversation to a different thread. It is off topic. I'd rather not have to wade through mountains of off topic (posts 22-26) material when seeking to read this thread. This thread is about Ephesians 2:8 and how the surrounding context clarifies its meaning. It is meant to be an exegetical discussion mainly focusing in upon 2:1-10. Thanks.

 

[His clay]

I would offer

The mysterious word faith??????

Faith the power to believe as a living work . . . ."Let there be" the unseen faith . . . . and it became the good thing seen . Creative faith a work or labor of Christ. Yoked with him our daily load can be lighter. .

In that way we are saved by His powerful faith (belief) that is not alone, not without a and it was a good testimony

I would offer a powerful fire demonstration. Using fireworks. No fire no works. Duds . . Let there be and no glory . . . nothing changing nothing .(human faith/understanding. . dead)

The loving commandment not to have the let there be works of Christ in respect to dying mankind seen (beleivers)

James 2:1My brethren, have not the (powerful creative) faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

You could say our new born again faith. . . his let there be power mixed with ours .

Mix Ephesian 2 with James2. It would seem work faithfully in both work as one" Let there be" labor

As stated in the opening post, the most relevant material is first the book of Ephesians. Begin there. Demonstrate thinking through the book in its own sphere. You must do this before leaping to other books which have different authors (James 2 is the only scripture referenced). Your material is therefore off topic at this juncture. Please stick to the topic of the thread. I will warn you now, and I will tag a mod @Arial . You are perfectly welcome to contribute to this thread, but if you want to leap all over the place, then create your own thread please.

 

[His clay]

Paul is the author but Acts 19 might give us from insight about the audiences.

Acts 19:8-10 Paul entered the synagogue and spoke boldly there for three months, arguing persuasively about the kingdom of God. But some of them became obstinate; they refused to believe and publicly maligned the Way. So Paul left them. He took the disciples with him and had discussions daily in the lecture hall of Tyrannus. This went on for two years, so that all the Jews and Greeks who lived in the province of Asia heard the word of the Lord.​

1. There was a Jewish synagogue.
2. The Christians was called "the Way."
3. There is a place called "Hall of Tyrannus."

1. Paul argued about "the Kingdom of God." (for three months)
2. Paul has discussions daily. (for two years)

If you think there are chop sections, then it could be previous discussions that the audiences were aware of. There were demonic possessions there Ephesus (11-16), people have practiced sorcery and burning of scrolls (19), there was a silversmith who business declined and caused riots (23-41), a temple of a non-existing goddess Artemis (27 and 35), there was a theater (31), and Revelations 2:1-7 say there was false apostles and the Way hate the practices of the Nicolaitans. What can you draw from this for Ephesians 2?

How, specifically, does your post directly impact the meaning of Eph 2:1-10? I commend you for finding some good historical detail, found in Acts. But I'm missing the part where you connect your content to the meaning of the passage in question. Again, the main focus of the thread is the book of Ephesians. Other books are not off limits, but they can only be appealed to after specifically dealing with Ephsians first. The opening post made this clear.

As for your question at the end, that is the question that the opening post asked of you. I wonder why you have chosen to ask me when I asked this of you at the outset. But I hope to be gracious, so I'll respond to your question. The only spot where I see overlap with Ephesians 2:1-10 is when you write of demonic possessions and other negatives taking place. This may potentially provide some insight into the deadness of the Ephesians referenced in 2:1-3.

 

[His clay]

One observation, Ephesians 2:1 starts with the word “And” in most translations and the word “kai” in Greek [which means … “and”]. I think it safe to assume that a sentence beginning with “And” is probably continuing a thought from the previous sentence (Ephesians 1).

So the next question--given that "And" connects or continues--would be how Paul is connecting or continuing the previous with "kai"? What is the thought progression?

 

[His clay]

Ephesians 1:3-14 [NASB]

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5 He predestined us to adoption as sons and daughters through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, with which He favored us in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our wrongdoings, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight 9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He set forth in Him, 10 regarding His plan of the fullness of the times, to bring all things together in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. 11 In Him we also have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things in accordance with the plan of His will, 12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in the Christ would be to the praise of His glory.13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of the promise, 14 who is a first installment of our inheritance, in regard to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.​

I think this opening (following the greeting) sets the tone for WHAT Paul intends to talk about. Ephesians 2:1-10 would seem to be getting more into the details of HOW this all happened (happens).

And here you are somewhat answering my question from my last post. A quote of scripture does answer it, but it lacks the specificity that I was aiming for with my question. Another question: why stop at verse 14 when quoting? Isn't 1:15-23 closer in proximity to 2:1-10, and wouldn't 1:15-23 more likely be what the "kai" was connected to?

For example. . .
and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might
20 that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places,
21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.
22 And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church,
23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.
(Eph 1:19-23 ESV)

-His power and might, people's believing (v19), resurrection power (v20), over authorities (v21)
may connect or continue
-resurrection power (2:5), faith (2:8), negative authorities (2:2).

Nevertheless, I think that you are right in that the scripture you quoted does have an impact upon the meaning of 2:1-10.

 

[His clay]

Both testaments. Christ's powerful faith "Let there be" as a labor of His love. . . . it moves us

.It was the kind of spiritual food the other knew not of

Power to believe by trusting the living word working with us. Emmanuel

John 4:33-35Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat?;Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Without the father Jesus the Son of man could do nothing that could please Him.

Again, this is off topic for this thread. I'm almost certain you are conflating Christ's faithfulness with the requirement for the gospel, which is that people must believe and trust in Christ/the gospel. John 4 is not Ephesians; nor does it directly relate to the point of this thread. Again, as the opening post stated, this thread is primarily focused upon the book of Ephesians and how the surrounding context (from Ephesians) informs both our understanding of 2:1-10 and in particular 2:8. If you cannot abide by these super easy stipulations, please create your own thread, rather than derailing this one. Thanks. I will again @ a mod because they are the enforcers. @Arial

 

[Arial]

Again, this is off topic for this thread. I'm almost certain you are conflating Christ's faithfulness with the requirement for the gospel, which is that people must believe and trust in Christ/the gospel. John 4 is not Ephesians; nor does it directly relate to the point of this thread. Again, as the opening post stated, this thread is primarily focused upon the book of Ephesians and how the surrounding context (from Ephesians) informs both our understanding of 2:1-10 and in particular 2:8. If you cannot abide by these super easy stipulation, please create your own thread, rather than derailing this one. Thanks. I will again @ a mod because they are the enforcers. @Arial

Take heed all posters. His Clay, in case I miss them, if this occurs bring them to my attention in a report and I will remove them from the thread. It is ok sometimes for threads to automatically go off track a bit, but when the OP has stated that their desire is to focus on one aspect in an exegetical and apologetic way, then that must be what is done by posters. One post off base is likely to send many others off course.

 

[Binyawmene]

How, specifically, does your post directly impact the meaning of Eph 2:1-10?

I appreciate you being gracious to answer my question. I will also answer your question graciously in like manner. I understand your position in the OP that you want to restrict and isolate Ephesians 2 from other books or letters in the Bible. But there are other contexts to Ephesus that can provide insight of Paul’s original thought. This is why it’s important for the whole of Scriptures be taken into consideration, which is in, the context to Ephesus during the time of Paul. The reason why I appeal to the historical places and events that occurred is to understand Paul, author original intent, and how the audiences understood his letter.

After all Ephesus was the third largest city in the Roman Empire. It was a prosperous city, sea ports, trades among other cities of the empire, and was the wealthiest. People was coming in and out of the city of Ephesus every day. The people’s behavior was characterized by cultural and commercial activities, along with their pagan religious practices like worshipping Artemis and sorcery. And possibly there was some kind of barbaric animal-beast fights in the theater (1 Corinthians 15:32) and the women had worldly fashions (1 Timothy 1:3, 2:9). And I am sure other things that is not recorded in the Bible. This could be the reason for Paul to derive his original thought about:

Ephesians 2:2-3 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.​

I commend you for finding some good historical detail, found in Acts. But I'm missing the part where you connect your content to the meaning of the passage in question.

I give you a brief to what I’m suggesting, for example: “You used to live when you followed the ways of this world”. I personally think it mostly had to do with wealth and money in the time era of Ephesus that Paul was concern about. You are welcome to disagree with it. And also, with the government too, like city clerk (Acts 19:35), courts and proconsuls (Acts 19:38-39), and more probably was going on in Ephesus’ governmental system (Ephesians 6:12, 1:21). Plus, Paul’s arguments in the Jewish synagogue about “the Kingdom of God” (Acts 19:8) compared to “Kingdom of the air” (Ephesians 2:2). After all, that was the Ephesians behavior of following the ways their culture, commercial, government, and religious life. What was socially acceptable to the Ephesians was not the ways of the Christians who were called “the Way” (Acts 9:2, 19:9, 23, 22:4, 24:14, 22). Paul spiritualizes what he sees on daily bases and social environment to draw his original thought and how the audiences would have understood it. Then again, it's just circumstantial evidence or an argument from silence to say the least. But you don’t know what Paul’s original thought was and why he wrote Ephesians 2, the way he did. All you can do is understand the simplicity and how to relates to our modern way of life you’ve once followed instead of the ancient way of life they once followed.