Ephesians 2:1-10, Exegetical Discussion

[makesends]

Hi thanks.

Not the most popular but it does ring true Jesus Son of man the chief apostle. One sent with prophecy The apostle other apostles prophesied to come and demonstrate the faithful power of the Father not seen.

Ephesians 2:19-21Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

(Household of faith the eternal unseen things) And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ (working in the Son of man) himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

Christ powerfully working n us with us (Emmanual)

The Christ the Holy Spirit of the Father working in dying mankind Son of man .Jesus.

Jesus became born again as a son of God. the first of many born again believer as the bride the church

Jesus the apostle sent with prophecy is not ashamed to call us brothers and sisters. They who are empowered obey the loving commandment not to call dying mankind Holy Father on earth. One not seen is in heaven

Giving us two witnesses to the one faithful work of the Fathers "let there be" labor of love

Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Mark 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

Faith= Power .No faith = no power

I'm sorry, but, once again, I can't understand you well enough to see if you've even answered my question.

 

[His clay]

Please, @makesends and @Mr GLee take this conversation to a different thread. It is off topic. I'd rather not have to wade through mountains of off topic (posts 22-26) material when seeking to read this thread. This thread is about Ephesians 2:8 and how the surrounding context clarifies its meaning. It is meant to be an exegetical discussion mainly focusing in upon 2:1-10. Thanks.

 

[His clay]

I would offer

The mysterious word faith??????

Faith the power to believe as a living work . . . ."Let there be" the unseen faith . . . . and it became the good thing seen . Creative faith a work or labor of Christ. Yoked with him our daily load can be lighter. .

In that way we are saved by His powerful faith (belief) that is not alone, not without a and it was a good testimony

I would offer a powerful fire demonstration. Using fireworks. No fire no works. Duds . . Let there be and no glory . . . nothing changing nothing .(human faith/understanding. . dead)

The loving commandment not to have the let there be works of Christ in respect to dying mankind seen (beleivers)

James 2:1My brethren, have not the (powerful creative) faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

You could say our new born again faith. . . his let there be power mixed with ours .

Mix Ephesian 2 with James2. It would seem work faithfully in both work as one" Let there be" labor

As stated in the opening post, the most relevant material is first the book of Ephesians. Begin there. Demonstrate thinking through the book in its own sphere. You must do this before leaping to other books which have different authors (James 2 is the only scripture referenced). Your material is therefore off topic at this juncture. Please stick to the topic of the thread. I will warn you now, and I will tag a mod @Arial . You are perfectly welcome to contribute to this thread, but if you want to leap all over the place, then create your own thread please.

 

[His clay]

Paul is the author but Acts 19 might give us from insight about the audiences.

Acts 19:8-10 Paul entered the synagogue and spoke boldly there for three months, arguing persuasively about the kingdom of God. But some of them became obstinate; they refused to believe and publicly maligned the Way. So Paul left them. He took the disciples with him and had discussions daily in the lecture hall of Tyrannus. This went on for two years, so that all the Jews and Greeks who lived in the province of Asia heard the word of the Lord.​

1. There was a Jewish synagogue.
2. The Christians was called "the Way."
3. There is a place called "Hall of Tyrannus."

1. Paul argued about "the Kingdom of God." (for three months)
2. Paul has discussions daily. (for two years)

If you think there are chop sections, then it could be previous discussions that the audiences were aware of. There were demonic possessions there Ephesus (11-16), people have practiced sorcery and burning of scrolls (19), there was a silversmith who business declined and caused riots (23-41), a temple of a non-existing goddess Artemis (27 and 35), there was a theater (31), and Revelations 2:1-7 say there was false apostles and the Way hate the practices of the Nicolaitans. What can you draw from this for Ephesians 2?

How, specifically, does your post directly impact the meaning of Eph 2:1-10? I commend you for finding some good historical detail, found in Acts. But I'm missing the part where you connect your content to the meaning of the passage in question. Again, the main focus of the thread is the book of Ephesians. Other books are not off limits, but they can only be appealed to after specifically dealing with Ephsians first. The opening post made this clear.

As for your question at the end, that is the question that the opening post asked of you. I wonder why you have chosen to ask me when I asked this of you at the outset. But I hope to be gracious, so I'll respond to your question. The only spot where I see overlap with Ephesians 2:1-10 is when you write of demonic possessions and other negatives taking place. This may potentially provide some insight into the deadness of the Ephesians referenced in 2:1-3.

 

[His clay]

One observation, Ephesians 2:1 starts with the word “And” in most translations and the word “kai” in Greek [which means … “and”]. I think it safe to assume that a sentence beginning with “And” is probably continuing a thought from the previous sentence (Ephesians 1).

So the next question--given that "And" connects or continues--would be how Paul is connecting or continuing the previous with "kai"? What is the thought progression?

 

[His clay]

Ephesians 1:3-14 [NASB]

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5 He predestined us to adoption as sons and daughters through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, with which He favored us in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our wrongdoings, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight 9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He set forth in Him, 10 regarding His plan of the fullness of the times, to bring all things together in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. 11 In Him we also have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things in accordance with the plan of His will, 12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in the Christ would be to the praise of His glory.13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of the promise, 14 who is a first installment of our inheritance, in regard to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.​

I think this opening (following the greeting) sets the tone for WHAT Paul intends to talk about. Ephesians 2:1-10 would seem to be getting more into the details of HOW this all happened (happens).

And here you are somewhat answering my question from my last post. A quote of scripture does answer it, but it lacks the specificity that I was aiming for with my question. Another question: why stop at verse 14 when quoting? Isn't 1:15-23 closer in proximity to 2:1-10, and wouldn't 1:15-23 more likely be what the "kai" was connected to?

For example. . .
and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might
20 that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places,
21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.
22 And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church,
23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.
(Eph 1:19-23 ESV)

-His power and might, people's believing (v19), resurrection power (v20), over authorities (v21)
may connect or continue
-resurrection power (2:5), faith (2:8), negative authorities (2:2).

Nevertheless, I think that you are right in that the scripture you quoted does have an impact upon the meaning of 2:1-10.

 

[His clay]

Both testaments. Christ's powerful faith "Let there be" as a labor of His love. . . . it moves us

.It was the kind of spiritual food the other knew not of

Power to believe by trusting the living word working with us. Emmanuel

John 4:33-35Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat?;Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Without the father Jesus the Son of man could do nothing that could please Him.

Again, this is off topic for this thread. I'm almost certain you are conflating Christ's faithfulness with the requirement for the gospel, which is that people must believe and trust in Christ/the gospel. John 4 is not Ephesians; nor does it directly relate to the point of this thread. Again, as the opening post stated, this thread is primarily focused upon the book of Ephesians and how the surrounding context (from Ephesians) informs both our understanding of 2:1-10 and in particular 2:8. If you cannot abide by these super easy stipulations, please create your own thread, rather than derailing this one. Thanks. I will again @ a mod because they are the enforcers. @Arial

 

[Arial]

Again, this is off topic for this thread. I'm almost certain you are conflating Christ's faithfulness with the requirement for the gospel, which is that people must believe and trust in Christ/the gospel. John 4 is not Ephesians; nor does it directly relate to the point of this thread. Again, as the opening post stated, this thread is primarily focused upon the book of Ephesians and how the surrounding context (from Ephesians) informs both our understanding of 2:1-10 and in particular 2:8. If you cannot abide by these super easy stipulation, please create your own thread, rather than derailing this one. Thanks. I will again @ a mod because they are the enforcers. @Arial

Take heed all posters. His Clay, in case I miss them, if this occurs bring them to my attention in a report and I will remove them from the thread. It is ok sometimes for threads to automatically go off track a bit, but when the OP has stated that their desire is to focus on one aspect in an exegetical and apologetic way, then that must be what is done by posters. One post off base is likely to send many others off course.

 

[Binyawmene]

How, specifically, does your post directly impact the meaning of Eph 2:1-10?

I appreciate you being gracious to answer my question. I will also answer your question graciously in like manner. I understand your position in the OP that you want to restrict and isolate Ephesians 2 from other books or letters in the Bible. But there are other contexts to Ephesus that can provide insight of Paul’s original thought. This is why it’s important for the whole of Scriptures be taken into consideration, which is in, the context to Ephesus during the time of Paul. The reason why I appeal to the historical places and events that occurred is to understand Paul, author original intent, and how the audiences understood his letter.

After all Ephesus was the third largest city in the Roman Empire. It was a prosperous city, sea ports, trades among other cities of the empire, and was the wealthiest. People was coming in and out of the city of Ephesus every day. The people’s behavior was characterized by cultural and commercial activities, along with their pagan religious practices like worshipping Artemis and sorcery. And possibly there was some kind of barbaric animal-beast fights in the theater (1 Corinthians 15:32) and the women had worldly fashions (1 Timothy 1:3, 2:9). And I am sure other things that is not recorded in the Bible. This could be the reason for Paul to derive his original thought about:

Ephesians 2:2-3 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.​

I commend you for finding some good historical detail, found in Acts. But I'm missing the part where you connect your content to the meaning of the passage in question.

I give you a brief to what I’m suggesting, for example: “You used to live when you followed the ways of this world”. I personally think it mostly had to do with wealth and money in the time era of Ephesus that Paul was concern about. You are welcome to disagree with it. And also, with the government too, like city clerk (Acts 19:35), courts and proconsuls (Acts 19:38-39), and more probably was going on in Ephesus’ governmental system (Ephesians 6:12, 1:21). Plus, Paul’s arguments in the Jewish synagogue about “the Kingdom of God” (Acts 19:8) compared to “Kingdom of the air” (Ephesians 2:2). After all, that was the Ephesians behavior of following the ways their culture, commercial, government, and religious life. What was socially acceptable to the Ephesians was not the ways of the Christians who were called “the Way” (Acts 9:2, 19:9, 23, 22:4, 24:14, 22). Paul spiritualizes what he sees on daily bases and social environment to draw his original thought and how the audiences would have understood it. Then again, it's just circumstantial evidence or an argument from silence to say the least. But you don’t know what Paul’s original thought was and why he wrote Ephesians 2, the way he did. All you can do is understand the simplicity and how to relates to our modern way of life you’ve once followed instead of the ancient way of life they once followed.

 

[Hazelelponi]

The goal of this thread is to have an exegetical discussion over Ephesians 2:1-10. For those of you who may be unaware, an exegetical discussion is one where the main focus is upon the book itself, and in particular the passage is the main focus.

I've not done this before I don't think, so consider me stupid and please be nice when calling me out for being so.

Often, Ephesians 2:8 is brought up and debated; but I'm seeking for a discussion that deals with the context of the verse. What context surrounds 2:8? This is probably the most critical question.

Gentiles being included among the elect appears to be the context.

Paul wants us to understand we (the elect of God) are not separate bodies regardless of whether we are Jew or Gentile) but the same body and everything we do on this earth is for one another for the praise of God's Glory.

Our preaching our teaching our suffering is about bringing all the elect home - not ourselves. It's service to each other. Service to God.

Are verses 2:1-10 the unit of though that contains 2:8?

No.

The unit which contains 2:8 begins in 1:4 specifically and probably you could end somewhere in chapter 3 potentially.

If yes, then how does the surrounding context inform our understanding of 2:8? Since 2:1-10 is obviously in chapter 2, then does any of the prior content (ch1) give significant help in properly understanding 2:1-10 and 2:8 in particular?

Yes.

In case you have missed an impossible to miss point, CONTEXT IS CRITICAL!

Do you see section breaks or breaks in thought through the course of 2:1-10?

What is a section break?

It's all the same main thoughts but he's making different smaller points.

Are there any relevant historical details from the time that Paul wrote the book, which may impact our understanding of 2:1-10?

I don't know.

Coming full circle. How does the context surrounding verse 2:8 shape the meaning of 2:8?

I'm not sure.

The meaning of 2:8 is not the point of speaking, it's merely a point within a much larger point.

Point of 2:8 being that it doesn't matter, we didn't save ourselves, and we can't be frustrated with the (Jewish,) heathens when ourselves were heathens too (and worse still).

Paul has to be our example here, who treated the elect as his own blood and so we do too. No more cultural nonsense. It's for the elect.

He's nice about it, but definitely strict. If he was willing to give his life to lead us to the Truth, then we can't grumble about them, we have neither place nor cause.

We are God's, and do only His will, and that will is for a people, the elect of God.

While an exegetical study does not ignore the rest of scripture, it is important to first (greatest priority) seek the immediate context. Outside of the book, then Paul's other writings may shed light upon the book of Ephesians. But please, let us keep the external (outside of the book of Eph) context to a minimum. The reason, too often people immediately jump to contexts outside of the most immediate context, and in so doing they subvert the very meaning of the passage itself. Let the external context be kept to a minimum and mentioned last.

With the rules and boundaries of the thread in place, I would love to see other's thoughts. Obviously, I've already done a significant amount of work. But I would like to see others' thoughts.

I tried, but have never done this before. Perhaps you were looking for something else.

I wonder if Paul was ever afraid of becoming Paul.

 

[Mr GLee]

Again, this is off topic for this thread. I'm almost certain you are conflating Christ's faithfulness with the requirement for the gospel, which is that people must believe and trust in Christ/the gospel. John 4 is not Ephesians; nor does it directly relate to the point of this thread. Again, as the opening post stated, this thread is primarily focused upon the book of Ephesians and how the surrounding context (from Ephesians) informs both our understanding of 2:1-10 and in particular 2:8. If you cannot abide by these super easy stipulations, please create your own thread, rather than derailing this one. Thanks. I will again @ a mod because they are the enforcers. @Arial

Hi Thanks

I would think there must be differences in opinions called heresies amongst us. The invisible kingdom of God does not come by observing the temporal dying.

They are also called private interpretations. Personal commentaries the individual interpretations of sola scriptura.

1 Corinthians 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

In that way we can distinguish between it as it is written (sola scriptura) false apostles, false teachers denying the fulness of grace teaching oral tradition of mankind rather than sola scriptura. (All things written in the law and prophets)

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction

Context Christ the husband that worked in the Son of man Jesus to display to the whole world his powerful labor of love or called work of faithfulnesss Let there be and it was made knw by His Son the outward everdence of the powerful infavible faith Not the faith of our own it has no poer to raise the dead

God's faithfulness is never absent from his work ."And it was good"

Ephisians 2:7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.;For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves:(no power) it is the gift of God:; Not of works lest any man should boast.;For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Saving Faith is not without any works but is without ours.dead in tress and sin

The opening loving commandment do not have the faith of mankind as if it was the faith /belief of the husband Christ

James 2My brethren, have not the faith of (belonging to) our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. (dying mankind)

Blasphemy attributing the work of our unseen Holy God as Christ to dying mankind's oral tradtions

James 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name(power) by the which ye are called?

The two references support each other. Not Paul against James

 

[makesends]

I wonder if Paul was ever afraid of becoming Paul.

HA!!! Now that has me grinning!

 

[Mr GLee]

Faith in the NT means belief and trust in as true.

Faith the "Let there be" good power.

Faith is a work Christ works in us ..Working to both give us ears to hear his understanding and a new heart to empowering us to do it to His good pleasure . (Philippian 2:13)

Hebrew 6 informs us it is one the better things that freely accompanies salvation. We can offer good works empowered with Him according to His power work of faith . He is keeping track

Hebrew 6:9 :10;But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
;For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labor of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

The moment person tries to separate. "let there be" (work of faith, believing the unseen) from and "it was good" The law of faith believing God is destroyed

 

[Mr GLee]

'Are' Jesus Christ and the Son of God, two different beings? What's going on here, calling Jesus an apostle and prophet? Was Jesus a different person from the Son of God?

Not a salvation issue. More of how can we hear the interpretation of Christ and not that of dying mankind?

Three seems to be needed to support queen mother of heaven false doctrine which began with the Jews a desire for his and hers gods (oral traditions) they refuse to hearken to sola scriptura.

Jesus the prophet sent with the gospel (apostle sent messenger). The chief of apostles

2 Corinthians 11:4-64 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.;For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles.

Two working as if one. One seen the Son of man Jesus displaying the powerful faithfulness of Christ the teaching master . . . . . the unseen understanding of the Father as Lord. The one good teaching master.

One person desire to worship the flesh of Jesus the Son of man . Jesus would never commit blasphemy against the one good teaching master our Holy Father, Christ

Mark 10:17-18; there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?;And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

 

[Eleanor]

Not a salvation issue.

Those who deny the Trinity have to scale down the Gospel--and they do.

Those who deny the Trinity deny the majesty of God, for they have him
begetting inferior beings which are not divine (Son and/or Holy Spirit),
begetting by proxy,
not involving his person in the redemption (by the atonement of the Son) and sanctification (by the Spirit) of men,
paying no personal price ("no skin in the game"),
thereby robbing him of his glory (Ex 14:4).

They have to make God too small--and they do. They take out the very heart, core and meaning of the Christian faith.

 

[Mr GLee]

Those who deny the Trinity have to scale down the Gospel--and they do.

Those who deny the Trinity deny the majesty of God, for they have him
begetting inferior beings which are not divine,
begetting by proxy,
not involving his person in the redemption (by the atonement of the Son) and sanctification (by the Spirit) of men,
paying no personal price ("no skin in the game"),
thereby robbing him of his glory (Ex 14:4).

They have to make God too small--and they do. They take out the very heart, core and meaning of the Christian faith.

Hi Thanks

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

I was brought up in a assembly that went for the three attributing the Holy Spirit as if different form the Holy Father

The meaning of Christian faith. Christ the husband working in his bride the church

Three already has a established meaning .The end of a matter .used in parables

Two is the word that describes the dynamic dual .Men try and make God visible by saying he is a Jewish man as King of kings which Peter as a false apostles tried in Mathew 16 .

No separation between the Holy Father and the Holy Spirit ..

Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Not ask the Son of man Jesus

Trinity a Catholic doctrine needed to install a queen mother the savoir . Three is a crowd

 

[Eleanor]

Hi Thanks

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

I was brought up in a assembly that went for the three attributing the Holy Spirit as if different form the Holy Father

Being brought up in a belief is no reason to retain it.

Spirits have no form, they are immaterial.
Spirits are persons.
The NT presents three distinct persons in the Godhead--Father, Son, Holy Spirit, where
the Holy Spirit issues from within the Father (Jn 15:26), just as does the Son, Jesus (Jn 8:42, 16:27, 28, 7:8), who is God (Jn 1:1, 14).
The Holy Spirit is like Jesus; i.e., another Comforter (Jn 14:16-17, 25-26, 15:26, 16:7), and
is one with Jesus (2 Co 3:16-18) who is God (Jn 1:1, 14),
making the Holy Spirit also God, just as Jesus is God (Jn 1:1, 14).

 

[Mr GLee]

Being brought up in a belief is no reason to retain it.

Spirits have no form, they are immaterial.
Spirits are persons.
The NT presents three distinct persons in the Godhead--Father, Son, Holy Spirit, where
the Holy Spirit issues from within the Father (Jn 15:26), just as does the Son, Jesus (Jn 8:42, 16:27, 28, 7:8), who is God (Jn 1:1, 14).
The Holy Spirit is like Jesus; i.e., another Comforter (Jn 14:16-17, 25-26, 15:26, 16:7), and
is one with Jesus (2 Co 3:16-18) who is God (Jn 1:1, 14),
making the Holy Spirit also God, just as Jesus is God (Jn 1:1, 14).

Thanks, you mentioned two the Holy Spirit of the Father Christ working in the Son of man, Jesus.

Where does the 3rd come in?

Spirits called gods live in persons.

On one occasion Jesus the Son of man was accused of blaspheming the name of the Holy Father, Christ .As in have no gods before the Holy Father accusing Jesus the son of violating the first commandment.

The Holy Spirit of Christ gave words to the Son of man Jesus the apostles prophet.in order to defend the Son of man Jesus

John 10:34-36Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?;If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;;Say ye of him, whom the Father (Holy Spirit) hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

All led by the Spirit of Christ (the Holy Father ) are sons of God. (Christians)

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

 

[Eleanor]

Thanks, you mentioned two the Holy Spirit of the Father Christ working in the Son of man, Jesus.

Where does the 3rd come in?

Where does the "Father Christ" come in?
A divine Father and his divine (Jn 1:1, 14) Son (Lk 1:32) are not the same person.

The Father is the first person (without origination) of the Trinity.
The Son proceeds from within the Father and is a distinct person from the Father (that makes two distinct persons).
The Holy Spirit proceeds from within the Father and is a distinct person from both the Father and the Son (that makes three distinct persons).

Spirits called gods live in persons.

The NT calls no spirit God apart from the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit do not dwell in the unregenerate, only in the regenerate.

On one occasion Jesus the Son of man was accused of blaspheming the name of the Holy Father, Christ .As in have no gods before the Holy Father accusing Jesus the son of violating the first commandment.
The Holy Spirit of Christ gave words to the Son of man Jesus the apostles prophet.in order to defend the Son of man Jesus
John 10:34-36Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?;If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;;Say ye of him, whom the Father (Holy Spirit) hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
All led by the Spirit of Christ (the Holy Father ) are sons of God. (Christians)
Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Thanks, you mentioned two the Holy Spirit of the Father Christ working in the Son of man, Jesus.

Where does the 3rd come in?

Review this post. . .

 

[Mr GLee]

Where does the "Father Christ" come in?
A divine Father and his divine (Jn 1:1, 14) Son (Lk 1:32) are not the same person.

The Father is the first person (without origination) of the Trinity.
The Son proceeds from within the Father and is a distinct person from the Father (that makes two distinct persons).
The Holy Spirit proceeds from within the Father and is a distinct person from both the Father and the Son (that makes three distinct persons).

Dying humans are not Devine.

Christ the one good teaching master is the Devine Holy Father

God is not a man as us

The faithful power by and through the born again seed Christ the ressurection not the birth according to the flesh of the Son of man, Jesus

Romans 1:3-5-8 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;;And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith (Christ's) among all nations, for his name:

No power of the dying flesh powerless.