Calminian? 3-pointer? 4-pointer? 4 1/2 pointer?

[Reformedguy]

Has anyone heard the term Calminian? I have throughout the years.
I have had people tell me they are 3 point, 4 point and 4 1/2 point Calvionists. An old pastor of mine told me he goes back and forth between a 5-pointer to a 4 1/2-pointer.

Personally, I don't think it works. I believe a Calvinist is a 5 pointer.
It's all or nothing. It's like no woman can be 80% pregnant. She is either pregnant 100% or she is not pregnant at all.

Let me clarify something, I am not trying to say if someone claims to be a 4 1/2 pointer they are not a Christian. This has nothing to do with it. One does not have to be a Calvinist to be a Christian. But I am saying that they are not a Calvinists. (If I can use the words) if the system is to hold together all 5 points hold each other together, if you remove one point, the system collapses.

An example remove the "L" from Limited TULIP. Can you see what happens to the others? Irresistible grace for one example

What's a 4.5 Calvinist?

 

[Deleted member 6]

What's a 4.5 Calvinist?

0.5 over 4.0
0.5 under 5.0

 

[Carbon]

What's a 4.5 Calvinist?

One who wants to be a Calvinist as long as…….

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

What's a 4.5 Calvinist?

Someone who waffles on the "L"

 

[Reformedguy]

Someone who waffles on the "L"

Thank you. I have never heard of that before. I need to get out more.

 

[civic]

Someone who waffles on the "L"

yes indeed sir, my elder statesman

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

yes indeed sir, my elder statesman

Who you calling Elder, bucko?

 

[Josheb]

Hi there Josh . Doesn’t anyone here have a daytime job

lol! I get to set my own hours and I'm prepping to retire from counseling. I've often wondered how it is everyone else can spend time during the day trading posts. Bunch of old geezers and young lay abouts. Unless things have changed the last time I visited those locals they don't let the inmates have unfettered access to the inmates but what do I know?

 

[civic]

lol! I get to set my own hours and I'm prepping to retire from counseling. I've often wondered how it is everyone else can spend time during the day trading posts. Bunch of old geezers and young lay abouts. Unless things have changed the last time I visited those locals they don't let the inmates have unfettered access to the inmates but what do I know?

My boss gave me the day off today so I'm online now

 

[Josheb]

Makes sense.

Only if we have a human-centric soteriology and not a God-centric one. The moment it is conceded it is God's salvation and it is God who saves in His salvation, then it must also be conceded God does not make Himself dependent upon sin in order to save from sin. That's not only a circular argument, it is a serious compromise on the premise of an omni-attributed God. Took me a long time to realize that. a dozen years ago I hadn't yet reasoned through all the problems with synergism.

 

[Carbon]

lol! I get to set my own hours and I'm prepping to retire from counseling. I've often wondered how it is everyone else can spend time during the day trading posts. Bunch of old geezers and young lay abouts. Unless things have changed the last time I visited those locals they don't let the inmates have unfettered access to the inmates but what do I know?

I’m fortunate to have a job that I can check in periodically.

 

[ReverendRV]

I’m fortunate to have a job that I can check in periodically.

I got my Stitches and my PIC Line out today. I'm heading back to work...

One day soon...

 

[Carbon]

I got my Stitches and my PIC Line out today. I'm heading back to work...

One day soon...

I’m glad to hear you are doing good.

 

[Reformedguy]

I’m fortunate to have a job that I can check in periodically.

I do as well.

 

[QVQ]

I tend to 5 point as one seems to follow the other, logically.
I am fond of the Sola's also. Sola Scriptura, Sola Christus Sola Fide Sola Gratia Soli Deo Gloria
I never heard of TULIP until I started reading the forums. I worked them out from scripture and in my experience.
The hard one was Perseverance of the Saints.. Calvin wrote something about "subsequent grace" being earned which is works. That would mean that a person couldn't earn" salvation by works but he had to work to keep it. So I finally agreed that "subsequent grace" didn't make sense although I still have a thought that there are things I could do to make God very angry, although I am unlikely to do same. It is the prayer after all "Lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil" Have to trust in God and the power of God, ultimately.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

I tend to 5 point as one seems to follow the other, logically.
I am fond of the Sola's also. Sola Scriptura, Sola Christus Sola Fide Sola Gratia Soli Deo Gloria
I never heard of TULIP until I started reading the forums. I worked them out from scripture and in my experience.
The hard one was Perseverance of the Saints.. Calvin wrote something about "subsequent grace" being earned which is works. That would mean that a person couldn't earn" salvation by works but he had to work to keep it. So I finally agreed that "subsequent grace" didn't make sense although I still have a thought that there are things I could do to make God very angry, although I am unlikely to do same. It is the prayer after all "Lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil" Have to trust in God and the power of God, ultimately.

You might find this worth reading then.

Conversion of the Will is the Effect of Divine Grace Inwardly Bestowed by John Calvin

www.monergism.com

 

[QVQ]

You might find this worth reading then.

Conversion of the Will is the Effect of Divine Grace Inwardly Bestowed by John Calvin

www.monergism.com

Thank you, I skimmed it, will read it carefully tomorrow.
To clarify "subsequent grace," There is an idea that a person is invited into the salvation, no work required but to maintain salvation requires work. Calvin said that was sophistry, the doctrine of subsequent grace claiming that works would not earn salvation but subsequent grace must be earned; a person had to do good works to keep salvation.
That is easy to understand and to say "no" not so. Good works may be the fruit but it is not the price. God is not going to demerit and eventually revoke salvation because of not doing good work
However, the flip side is doing evil works and whether that would cause the revocation of salvation. I have seen arguments that a person who is Truly Saved would produce good fruit and wouldn't fall away. There is that slight tinge, truly saved...a bit of sanctimony as even Jesus had his moment of doubt and pain so I am considering other arguments for that condition of "P."
The question is then: If a person is saved, then falls away or commits sins, makes no effort then that person was not "truly saved?"
I don't care for that answer so I am considering.
Perhaps the answer is in the link you sent. I will read and consider.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

Thank you, I skimmed it, will read it carefully tomorrow.
To clarify "subsequent grace," There is an idea that a person is invited into the salvation, no work required but to maintain salvation requires work. Calvin said that was sophistry, the doctrine of subsequent grace claiming that works would not earn salvation but subsequent grace must be earned; a person had to do good works to keep salvation.
That is easy to understand and to say "no" not so. Good works may be the fruit but it is not the price. God is not going to demerit and eventually revoke salvation because of not doing good work
However, the flip side is doing evil works and whether that would cause the revocation of salvation. I have seen arguments that a person who is Truly Saved would produce good fruit and wouldn't fall away. There is that slight tinge, truly saved...a bit of sanctimony as even Jesus had his moment of doubt and pain so I am considering other arguments for that condition of "P."
The question is then: If a person is saved, then falls away or commits sins, makes no effort then that person was not "truly saved?"
I don't care for that answer so I am considering.
Perhaps the answer is in the link you sent. I will read and consider.

Just do a search on the page for "subsequent"

 

[Deleted member 6]

I’m fortunate to have a job that I can check in periodically.

You mean a check in you can job periodically.

#IFixedThatForYouBruh
#

 

[QVQ]

Just do a search on the page for "subsequent"

Ok, I read that page and then by doing a search I found "Chapter 3, Institutes"
This is the answer:
Fifthly, that the direction of the will to good, and its constancy after being so directed, depend entirely on the will of God, and not on any human merit. Thus the will (free will, if you choose to call it so), which is left to man, is, as he in another place (Ep. 46) describes it, a will which can neither be turned to God, nor continue in God, unless by grace; a will which, whatever its ability may be, derives all that ability from grace."

I did see where the idea of "subsequent grace" could be traced back to Pelagius. As I understand it, Pelagius believed than man, through free will cooperating with God, could be perfected which is false.

So logically, the P follows from I, irresistible grace.