Baptism of the holy spirit born again and... born again again?

[Agra Man]

Years ago, I got Saved on a Sunday; I took the Leap of Faith in Christ as my Lord and Savior. But in a few weeks, I was laying in my bed thinking; "Since God Judged me as Righteous; everyone else that judges me is just a Critic"...

That's when I felt like a New Creature; and I changed. Later, I would ask questions like, Was I Saved when I first Believed, but was Born Again much later?

Now, I think I first Believed and became a New Creation at the same time; a little later. I don't think people can be Born Again twice. Jesus said you cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven unless you are Born of Water and the Spirit. Therefore, being Born Again twice would be entering the Kingdom of God twice. We enter the Kingdom of God through Faith Alone; John 5:24. The Epistle of Hebrews teaches we cannot be Saved twice; and I say re-entering the Kingdom of God, is being Saved twice...

Ok so this right here I need to be serious with you about. I honestly have been trying to come back online I struggle with many health issues that often make life very hard for me even just having energy to go places so I get sick a lot and I have a damahged immune system.

But I feel horrible and don't want anyone to think I am avoiding or something I am just trying my best to get better.

But what you have written here I am wondering after I re read it several times and really take it in if you would be willing to talk about this more via pm I haven't found anyone who even remotely relates and this is new territory for me I am basically entering into the unknown with him and he takes you out of your comefort zone you see everything differently suddenly and yet you know your still blind he wants to take you deeper at least that is how it always seems

But this is I suppose you could say and I say this with all humility as I possibly can a level with him that very few have known the things he has shown me are things that I cannot speak to most and I am basically winging it with him in this journey you literally lern to trust him more and more because quite frankly your going to neeed it.

I mean for me at least he made me go against the flow if you will going about him salvation faith us him the bible everything what the real truth is I actually refused to budge from my knees until he said yes.

I always keep saying how it confused me that the word of God is so divided and seperated and it is supposed to bring life to us but all we see is division all the mess we call denominations doctrines but not what God calls doctrine it seems more like what we would call doctrine

Well basically everything written in scripture alll the promises he gives all the things he says about us about him about the truth about the kingdom none of this felt like that.

So he kind of made me go about it a different way but it doesn't even fit into the Christian standard or flow and very few know what I am talking about but those who he I have personally seen him change from death to life spiritually that is

However I honestly need help in this as I said I am just winging it right now with him but if there was someone who knew this stuff even to a small degree being able to discuss it would greatly help me learn

 

[ReverendRV]

Ok so this right here I need to be serious with you about. I honestly have been trying to come back online I struggle with many health issues that often make life very hard for me even just having energy to go places so I get sick a lot and I have a damahged immune system.

But I feel horrible and don't want anyone to think I am avoiding or something I am just trying my best to get better.

But what you have written here I am wondering after I re read it several times and really take it in if you would be willing to talk about this more via pm I haven't found anyone who even remotely relates and this is new territory for me I am basically entering into the unknown with him and he takes you out of your comefort zone you see everything differently suddenly and yet you know your still blind he wants to take you deeper at least that is how it always seems

But this is I suppose you could say and I say this with all humility as I possibly can a level with him that very few have known the things he has shown me are things that I cannot speak to most and I am basically winging it with him in this journey you literally lern to trust him more and more because quite frankly your going to neeed it.

I mean for me at least he made me go against the flow if you will going about him salvation faith us him the bible everything what the real truth is I actually refused to budge from my knees until he said yes.

I always keep saying how it confused me that the word of God is so divided and seperated and it is supposed to bring life to us but all we see is division all the mess we call denominations doctrines but not what God calls doctrine it seems more like what we would call doctrine

Well basically everything written in scripture alll the promises he gives all the things he says about us about him about the truth about the kingdom none of this felt like that.

So he kind of made me go about it a different way but it doesn't even fit into the Christian standard or flow and very few know what I am talking about but those who he I have personally seen him change from death to life spiritually that is

However I honestly need help in this as I said I am just winging it right now with him but if there was someone who knew this stuff even to a small degree being able to discuss it would greatly help me learn

Keep things simple. We're Saved by Grace through Faith, not by Works lest we Boast. He who Promised is Faithful. Lean not on your Understanding...

 

[Bluedragon]

I was in Sales Management for years. One of my close friends was our Marketing Secretary. Working as a Regional Sales Manager with a Territiory from Minnesota to Washington State, all of Canada and Alaska ..From Tampa..we had a liberty seldom seen at work positions. We were required to be in a week and out a week. The joke being that we came home to repair what had been broken while we were out the week before. I am balancing work, church and Productions at Church. Linda asked me once "You disappear for half a day from work occasionally when you are home .....what do you do?" Smiling I replied "I usually play golf alone for that afternoon." "Why?" "Because God and I have a lot to talk about."

I don't need to be Baptized six hundred times ......I received Christ personally and took the dip to publically show a changed person ....

 

[Bluedragon]

My life should be an example to all I meet. I was in the choir and had a lull in trips over Easter ......I was called to the Music Director's Office. "I need to know your travel schedule." "I'm free until after Easter." "Good, I've got a challenge for you. I want you to be Barrabus ....." "K, why?" "Lead in the production six songs and dialog for about two hours ......think you can do it?" "I am humbled and honored." I was introduced before the choir and soundly booed ....." Paul explained "The Bible says nothing about Barabbus after being freed by Pilate. What if the event saved him? What if his empty place on the cross turned into his salvation?" "Bow the Knee is the title of the Production."

Everything was a whirlwind .....People came to the stage after each night. Events taking place that were unbelievable. The last week, I took Thursday afternoon off from work and went to the golf course. Hoping to talk to God and reflect on the events of the week. One more night of production on Friday night. Normally I play alone. The golf courses find a spot and send me out. This time was not the case. I was paired with a couple from Canada and one lone young man from Michigan. Off we went. Since it was my home and course. I took honors and teed off. Straight down the middle of the fairway about 280 yards out. Everyone else teed off left and right. We helped everyone find their ball and hit their second shot. I finally hit my second .....onto the green .....putted two and finshed with a birdie on the first hole ....Then the bottom fell out. Left, right skulled topped ...I would hit, shake my head and put the club in the bag. Help find the other balls and encourage everyone along the way. This cloud followed as we went along. On the 16th hole. I got into another drive 300 yards out .....Tiger would be proud ...Hit a blast second shit and cleared the stream across the middle of the fairway. My third right beside the hole ......putted in for another birdie. Then it happened ...

My partner ruined it all. "I've got a personal question." "OK" "Are you a Christian?" "In fact, I am. Why do you ask?" "It's obvious you can play golf. Yet you've had a miserable afternoon with the exception of two holes. You made bad shots, bad hits, yet never threw a club, never swore, never had a cross word at all. You've helped everyone else and encouraged them ....I thought you had to be a Christian." "Where do you go to Church?"

I explained "Because you are from Michigan, you won't know where this is." "Try me" I described the direction and the church ....."Productions?" "Yes" "I was there last night!" "I'm going back tomorrow night!" We were sitting in a back up for the next hole ......two foursomes in front and us at the tail. "Do you know the lead in the play?" "Can you introduce him to me?" "I've got to meet this guy .....everyone listen to this ....." He opened up and told everyone listening that there they had to be there on Friday night. "You have to introduce me to this guy. I have to meet him! It's important that I meet him." I could not think of another way to do this ......I suddenly reached out and said "Let me introduce myself. My name is Barrabus." I didn't get a handshake I got a huge hug ...Before we were finished to send the next four down the fairway .....I had handed out programs and flyers and cards to the crowd .....All declaring they were taking their wives to the production the following night.

On Friday evening, I got off the bus from the separate parking lot and went into the church. Up the stairs and to the sound booth. My head set ready. I always go behind the halls and out on the stage for a sound check. Walked out and was met with applause .....There sat four rows of people from that one hole of golf ......I asked four people to go into the choir room to be introduced as new friends. ....The choir director set it up.

Paul ask for quiet ...."Ray, all yours."

"You never know who is watching. We should always walk around with the belief that God is watching over our shoulder at all times. However we whould always be aware that those that don't believe are influenced by our actions. Those that do believe are influenced as well, but need our example of how to go about doing this. Tonight we have thirty five new friends here watching us. Influenced by one round of golf. Your actions, as Christians, speak louder than any words we can say." I went on to tell them about what happened on that golf course.Joked that some of the choir had been on a gold course with me and been hit by some of my stray shots ....

That Production changed lives. Some of the lives changed were in the choir. On evening a middle aged lady came to the stage and asked me to pray for her, She handed me three photographs. One was of a cross representing where her husband had died tragically, the other cross representing the lady that died in the same crash when her car drifted across the yellow lines hitting her husband head on. She asked me to pray for the lady, because she didn't know if she was a Christian or not. I suggested ...."Let's assume she was a Christian ....because in my belief all the prayer in the world for a non believer will not help the dead at all. Then let's pray for your husband and your loss."

I met her months later, while inspecting a house across the street. She had moved and was working from home. Excited to show me her new hobby. I've seen paintings by artists with this talent ....She showed me a painting of Jesus and you could not miss the lion in the foreground .....amazing talent ...and not intentional.

Others came forward during that production .....It all started with a Boo! from the choir and ended with "You never know who is watching."

 

[ChristB4us]

Yes but this all under the assumption that the spirit I am with is what you think but make no mistake I am not the type to get into spiritual hype and I know him personally I recognize his voice and presence as he said his sheep would

Knowing who he is and all he has already done for us do you really think it so strange that he would reveal himself to those who truly would chase after him?

See this isn't about experiences or spiritual things and Honestly it isn't even about being a Christian to me I see his heart and only his heart that is what keeps me going not the experiences they are amazing and wonderful yes but your assumption if you ask me is the spirit of the antichrist and quite frankly uncalled for
Are we not to testify the good things he has done for us? like this man here in Luke 8:39 “Return to your house and describe what great things God has done for you.” So he went away, proclaiming throughout the whole city what great things Jesus had done for him

This is just how I am and he has often used this method with me many times but the reason I speak of these things is because to me they are bits and pieces of him more and more of him I am learning of and experiencing first hand and if others only knew the depth of what I am talking about but I cannot speak of it because obviously just speaking of this stuff doesn't get taken well.

I am reasonable but if your going to be making such harsh assumptions maybe get to know me better first

It is not a harsh assumption on you as it is His words for discernment as judging that spirit that visit you as not the Holy Spirit nor Jesus Christ but the spirit of the antichrist when you know He has been in you & still is since salvation for having believed in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel.

What would be the point for that "spirit" to visit you if He has been in you since salvation other than to look to that spirit as if that is Jesus Christ?

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

Verse 2 above is the same thing as saying 2 Corinthians 13:5 in the examination of our faith that Jesus Christ is in us.

Verse 2 is not about exposing false prophets as if they were teaching that Jesus had never come in the flesh but rather where Jesus Christ is presently as "is come" is the term used for where He is now as in in us.

Jesus may help you to see that truth by reading on for how when someone does not confess that Jesus Christ is in us but rather in the world, that is the spirit of the antichrist as explained below.

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
So when you seek to receive another visit from this other "spirit of Jesus", it is akin to seeking another Jesus or another spirit that was not received as we were warned by the apostle Paul to beware of.

2 Corinthians 11:1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

May Jesus Christ deliver you from that phenomenon to rest in Him that He is with you always.

Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

 

[civic]

My life should be an example to all I meet. I was in the choir and had a lull in trips over Easter ......I was called to the Music Director's Office. "I need to know your travel schedule." "I'm free until after Easter." "Good, I've got a challenge for you. I want you to be Barrabus ....." "K, why?" "Lead in the production six songs and dialog for about two hours ......think you can do it?" "I am humbled and honored." I was introduced before the choir and soundly booed ....." Paul explained "The Bible says nothing about Barabbus after being freed by Pilate. What if the event saved him? What if his empty place on the cross turned into his salvation?" "Bow the Knee is the title of the Production."

Everything was a whirlwind .....People came to the stage after each night. Events taking place that were unbelievable. The last week, I took Thursday afternoon off from work and went to the golf course. Hoping to talk to God and reflect on the events of the week. One more night of production on Friday night. Normally I play alone. The golf courses find a spot and send me out. This time was not the case. I was paired with a couple from Canada and one lone young man from Michigan. Off we went. Since it was my home and course. I took honors and teed off. Straight down the middle of the fairway about 280 yards out. Everyone else teed off left and right. We helped everyone find their ball and hit their second shot. I finally hit my second .....onto the green .....putted two and finshed with a birdie on the first hole ....Then the bottom fell out. Left, right skulled topped ...I would hit, shake my head and put the club in the bag. Help find the other balls and encourage everyone along the way. This cloud followed as we went along. On the 16th hole. I got into another drive 300 yards out .....Tiger would be proud ...Hit a blast second shit and cleared the stream across the middle of the fairway. My third right beside the hole ......putted in for another birdie. Then it happened ...

My partner ruined it all. "I've got a personal question." "OK" "Are you a Christian?" "In fact, I am. Why do you ask?" "It's obvious you can play golf. Yet you've had a miserable afternoon with the exception of two holes. You made bad shots, bad hits, yet never threw a club, never swore, never had a cross word at all. You've helped everyone else and encouraged them ....I thought you had to be a Christian." "Where do you go to Church?"

I explained "Because you are from Michigan, you won't know where this is." "Try me" I described the direction and the church ....."Productions?" "Yes" "I was there last night!" "I'm going back tomorrow night!" We were sitting in a back up for the next hole ......two foursomes in front and us at the tail. "Do you know the lead in the play?" "Can you introduce him to me?" "I've got to meet this guy .....everyone listen to this ....." He opened up and told everyone listening that there they had to be there on Friday night. "You have to introduce me to this guy. I have to meet him! It's important that I meet him." I could not think of another way to do this ......I suddenly reached out and said "Let me introduce myself. My name is Barrabus." I didn't get a handshake I got a huge hug ...Before we were finished to send the next four down the fairway .....I had handed out programs and flyers and cards to the crowd .....All declaring they were taking their wives to the production the following night.

On Friday evening, I got off the bus from the separate parking lot and went into the church. Up the stairs and to the sound booth. My head set ready. I always go behind the halls and out on the stage for a sound check. Walked out and was met with applause .....There sat four rows of people from that one hole of golf ......I asked four people to go into the choir room to be introduced as new friends. ....The choir director set it up.

Paul ask for quiet ...."Ray, all yours."

"You never know who is watching. We should always walk around with the belief that God is watching over our shoulder at all times. However we whould always be aware that those that don't believe are influenced by our actions. Those that do believe are influenced as well, but need our example of how to go about doing this. Tonight we have thirty five new friends here watching us. Influenced by one round of golf. Your actions, as Christians, speak louder than any words we can say." I went on to tell them about what happened on that golf course.Joked that some of the choir had been on a gold course with me and been hit by some of my stray shots ....

That Production changed lives. Some of the lives changed were in the choir. On evening a middle aged lady came to the stage and asked me to pray for her, She handed me three photographs. One was of a cross representing where her husband had died tragically, the other cross representing the lady that died in the same crash when her car drifted across the yellow lines hitting her husband head on. She asked me to pray for the lady, because she didn't know if she was a Christian or not. I suggested ...."Let's assume she was a Christian ....because in my belief all the prayer in the world for a non believer will not help the dead at all. Then let's pray for your husband and your loss."

I met her months later, while inspecting a house across the street. She had moved and was working from home. Excited to show me her new hobby. I've seen paintings by artists with this talent ....She showed me a painting of Jesus and you could not miss the lion in the foreground .....amazing talent ...and not intentional.

Others came forward during that production .....It all started with a Boo! from the choir and ended with "You never know who is watching."

Wow what a great story brother and I'm a fellow golfer too . I have seen some things God has used on the course but nothing close to that magnitude. PTL !!!!!

I've also been in sales/marketing my whole life.

 

[Bluedragon]

Wow what a great story brother and I'm a fellow golfer too . I have seen some things God has used on the course but nothing close to that magnitude. PTL !!!!!

I've also been in sales/marketing my whole life.

I was having one of those days. Par five to start and birdie the hole. Thinking "I am going to tear this course up today." Then everything that could go wrong went wrong .....Until the 16th and birided that Par five ....Then the conversation ....

Best drive ever was with my wife. Downhill slope the entire distance. Tee'd up and hit a rocket ......Foursome in front of us had parked their carts in front of the green 345 to the center ....Lost sight of the ball, but see everyone on the green look up. Ithought I had hit a cart .....Ball rolled under the carts and two feet short of the flag. They putted out then waited for us to get there. "Exaclty where it sopped rolling. we stayed to see who hit that shot! They asked to see the driver. I had it made at a golf shop. Hybrid head and measured for the shaft ....

 

[civic]

I was having one of those days. Par five to start and birdie the hole. Thinking "I am going to tear this course up today." Then everything that could go wrong went wrong .....Until the 16th and birided that Par five ....Then the conversation ....

Best drive ever was with my wife. Downhill slope the entire distance. Tee'd up and hit a rocket ......Foursome in front of us had parked their carts in front of the green 345 to the center ....Lost sight of the ball, but see everyone on the green look up. Ithought I had hit a cart .....Ball rolled under the carts and two feet short of the flag. They putted out then waited for us to get there. "Exaclty where it sopped rolling. we stayed to see who hit that shot! They asked to see the driver. I had it made at a golf shop. Hybrid head and measured for the shaft ....

Great story . I have a funny one. I’ve had 3 hole in ones . But one in particular stands out because my friend and golf pro at the course I used to play with every week had just taught me how to hit a knock down cut shot. He was in the club house and I was playing with 3 other guys that had their pga status as golf pros. So we were on this par 3 where I tried the 7 iron knock down cut shot and it went right over the bunker on the left with a middle green pin and proceeded to hop to the right towards the flag with two bounces a little side spin and went into the hole. They knew Chris the pro had just taught me that shot . I called him on the phone with speaker phone on and he was pissed because he had never had a hole in one. So I always rubbed that one in his face and would tell him he needs to teach me more shots like that

 

[Bluedragon]

Great story . I have a funny one. I’ve had 3 hole in ones . But one in particular stands out because my friend and golf pro at the course I used to play with every week had just taught me how to hit a knock down cut shot. He was in the club house and I was playing with 3 other guys that had their pga status as golf pros. So we were on this par 3 where I tried the 7 iron knock down cut shot and it went right over the bunker on the left with a middle green pin and proceeded to hop to the right towards the flag with two bounces a little side spin and went into the hole. They knew Chris the pro had just taught me that shot . I called him on the phone with speaker phone on and he was pissed because he had never had a hole in one. So I always rubbed that one in his face and would tell him he needs to teach me more shots like that

Now I'm jealous! I've hit the flag numerous times but never had one drop. We were playing in a tourament where you buy tickets to holes. I had bought a Hole in One ticket for a car. That's normally where we hit our worst shot ...I skulled one and we all stood and watched this thing cross the creek, climb the green and skoot across. Everyone stood up, the girls as witnesses and the foursomes backed up for the next tee ....ball hit the flag and bounced out about six inches from the pin.

Shook my head, smiled and at least putted for the bird .....

We were the last foresome at TPC in Tampa. The next day was the start of the Senior Tour event. We are watching the greens keepers prepare holes as we finished .....The Club Pro and of all people, Jack Nicholas, drove up and followed us as we were finishing the last three holes.
We got to 18 ....Nicholas was so gracious. The Club Pro is standing by the cart "See your boss over there? Look over his shoulder......there was Jack, 14 foot aligator in the pond. "See Jack? His last day on the pond." "Why" "Do you think, national TV, Senior Tour PGA .....Jack comes up and drags Jack Nicholas into the pond .....You think the PGA would ever come here again?' We're standing about 145 out. Jack Nicholas says "What do you think?" "8 iron, middle of the green ......always worth 150 yards, never miss. But I have a problem today. The stands are intimidating." "Always to the middle of the green from 150?" "Never miss" "Ignore the stands." Shot three feet from the pin. "Great hit" "You encouraged me ..."

 

[Ritajanice]

Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”[John 3:3]

Jesus did not tell Nicodemus he must be born again, and again, and again. Just like we can only be physically born once, we also cannot be born again two or more times.

Notice what Jesus tells Nicodemus after he said this “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." Jesus reiterates what He told him to begin with, "You must be born again." There are no multiple births in/of the Spirit. One is sufficient.

Yes, you can only be birthed once in the Spirit ......it’s a spiritual birth, Flesh gives birth to flesh, Spirit gives birth to spirit....try explaining that one, Lol......Praise God.

 

[DJT_47]

I actually have a question about something that happened to me near the beginning of this year. Is it possible to be reborn a second time? some call it an anointing but the anointing God showed me is not here yet but this wasan event that tchanged me I have always been very close with God even from the start he and I were always very intimate and personal but when this changed happened to me it is like sudden;ly basically everything he has been teaching me and everything he instilled in me was enhanced.

I no longer have to seek him out to be close to him he resides with me not just inside me I mean he literally moved into my room with me he comes and goes but visits quite often this was never the case before I mean he would interact with me every now and then in supernatural ways or just blessing me with his presence snd yet even then it didn't compare to the presence he brings now.

The deeper hidden truths are being taught to me like he wants me to go into the great unknown with him into the barrier that many are stuck at he keeps telling me about all the things I read in the bible but you don't see it these days we live ina generation of unbelief and that goes for us as Christians as well.

Even we who are called followers of Christ often times don't follow him and when we do it tends to be good but still lacking something.

I ponder about the words Jesus said that with faith anything is possible with God. Think of that anything, he used a word that means limitless unbound freely asked freely given kind of word.

But seeing the world today the dryness of the holy spirit the lack of evidence that we believe what we read we say we do but we clearly lack the power to prove it, you see and hear of miracles but most people for whatever reasopn don't seem to get this a lot.

When this change happened to me this is when I started to see the holes in our system.

Divide and confuse cause strife and have the enemy kill itself off this is a very good war stratigy and is the enemies favorite. Now look at all these denomination look at all the doctrines within those deniominations now look at all the different views and interpretations of them and see how the church gets into it with each other about this stuff and more importantly look at the word of God.

We have so many different intepretations three people can see the same verse and think it says something else each person believeing it to be from the holy spirit and the truth.

We make it seem to contradict itself we use it for our own petty purposes to attack or just argue with each other each person able to pick a verse to counter the one presented to them.

We call the bible the word of God, if God gave you a word how would you treat it? would you treat with respect and use it only when you know it should be used or would you throw around verse after verse treating it like just words on paper like any other book.

Sorry I got a bit off topic there

Being born again is a one time event and only necessary one time, because when you're baptized into the body of Christ you become a child of God, a Christian, and a member of his body which is his church. Read Acts 2:38-47. Upon baptism, your sins are remitted, you receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, the indwelling of it, and the Lord adds you to the church.

 

[Fred]

Upon baptism, your sins are remitted, you receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, the indwelling of it, and the Lord adds you to the church.

The Gentiles in Acts 10 received "the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 10:45) before their water baptism (Acts 10:48).

 

[DJT_47]

The Gentiles in Acts 10 received "the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 10:45) before their water baptism (Acts 10:48).

I'll provide you with a detailed repost of mine explaining Acts 2 and 10. In both cases, the Spirit fell miraculously which is not the indwelling of the Spirit discussed in Acts 2:38, and in both cases, the Spirit fell in this manner to validate what what occurring. Why? Because the church was started in both cases, 1st with the Jews in Jerusalem in Acts 2, and then in Caesarea with the Gentiles in Acts 10.

REPOST

Start with Luke 3:16 and Luke 24:47-49 both restated in Acts 1:4-5. What's it say? One will come that will baptize with the Holy Ghost and with fire, in Luke 3:16, and in Luke 24:47-49, it says repentance and remission of sins should be preached starting at Jerusalem and to tarry there until they received power ftom on high. And what's Acts 1:4-5,say? It restates both of these.4And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.And in Luke 24:47-49, who was this addressed to? Starting in verse 36 of Luke 24, Jesus appears to the APOSTLES and verses 47-49 is his instructions to them, the apostles.

47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48And ye are witnesses of these things. 49And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Then Acts 1:8 says the following

8But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth

It's clear that the falling of the Holy Ghost with fire was meant for THE APOSTLE'S as well as the power from on high, and that this occurred as recorded in Acts 2; read it all carefully.

Futher, Acts 10 was also a unique demonstration of the Holy Ghost and unilaterally by the Holy Ghost falling on the Gentiles first and unlike Acts 2 where it fell on the apostles, but also as a sign and validation from on high which there validated it was God's plan to bring the Gentiles into the body of Christ. In that case, it was validation to Peter and company. It fell on the Gentiles prior to baptism but they were then immediately baptized. Why? Because that's how you become part of the Lord's body; you're baptized into Christ as noted in scripture such as Acts 2:38-47 and elsewhere.

The power from on high and the miraculous manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit, not the Spirit itself, but it's gifts as noted in 1 Cor 12:8-10, are manifested by the laying on of the APOSTLE'S hands as noted in Acts 6:6, Acts 8:18 and Acts 19:6, and it was the apostles who performed the miraculous gifts of the Spirit as noted in Acts 5:12 and those that they laid their hands on such as Stephen as recoreded in Acts 6:6.

The scriptures prove themselves.

 

[Fred]

I'll provide you with a detailed repost of mine explaining Acts 2 and 10. In both cases, the Spirit fell miraculously which is not the indwelling of the Spirit discussed in Acts 2:38, and in both cases, the Spirit fell in this manner to validate what what occurring.

Wrong.

The gift of the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit in both Acts 2:38 and Acts 10:45.
a. The same phrase
b. By the same author
c. In the same book
d. Concerning the same theme - salvation and the Lordship of Christ

1. BDAG (3rd Edition): receive the Spirit as a gift Ac. 2:38; cp. 10:45 (dōrea, page 266).
2. Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament (EDNT): The usage of dōrea in the NT is concentrated on the gracious gift which has already been given by God, namely, Christ (John 4:10), the Spirit (Acts 2:38; 8:20; 10:45; 11:17), or "righteousness" (Rom. 5:15, 17) (1:364, dōrea, G. Schneider).
3. Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT): In Ac. the Spirit is called the dōrea of God in 2:38; 8:20; 10:45; 11:17 (2:167, dōrea, Buchsel).
4. Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: with an epexegetical gen. of the thing given, the Holy Ghost, Ac 2:38, 10:45 (dōrea, page 161).
5. Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words: In Acts 2:38 "the gift of the Holy Ghost", the clause is epexegetical, the gift being the Holy Ghost Himself; cf. 10:45; 11:17 (Gift - dōrea, page 477)
6. A Greek and English Lexicon of the New Testament: gen. of that in which the gift consists; Acts 2:38 and 10:45 (dōrea, page 196).

Why? Because the church was started in both cases, 1st with the Jews in Jerusalem in Acts 2, and then in Caesarea with the Gentiles in Acts 10.

When both groups received the gift of the Holy Spirit that is when they were placed in to the NT Church.

Starting in verse 36 of Luke 24, Jesus appears to the APOSTLES and verses 47-49 is his instructions to them, the apostles.

You should have looked back earlier.
Luke 24:33
And they got up that very hour and returned to Jerusalem, and found gathered together the eleven and those who were with them.

Thus, the two that were walking and talking with Jesus earlier are also included.

It's clear that the falling of the Holy Ghost with fire was meant for THE APOSTLE'S as well as the power from on high, and that this occurred as recorded in Acts 2; read it all carefully.

It was meant for the 120 (Acts 1:15).

Futher, Acts 10 was also a unique demonstration of the Holy Ghost and unilaterally by the Holy Ghost falling on the Gentiles first and unlike Acts 2 where it fell on the apostles, but also as a sign and validation from on high which there validated it was God's plan to bring the Gentiles into the body of Christ.

Not "to bring" but that God had already brought the Gentiles into the body of Christ.

Acts 15:7-8
(7) And after there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.
(8) And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us.
Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Spirit.

In that case, it was validation to Peter and company. It fell on the Gentiles prior to baptism but they were then immediately baptized. Why? Because that's how you become part of the Lord's body;

They were already a part of the Lord's body when they received the Holy Spirit.

 

[Fred]

It was meant for the 120 (Acts 1:15).

I know that many from the church of Christ will insist that only the 12 apostles were baptized with the Holy Spirit in Acts 2:4.
The argument is that the word "they" in Acts 2:1 refers back to the "eleven apostles" (and Matthias) in Acts 1:26. However, "they" in Acts 2:1 corresponds with the "they" at the beginning of Acts 1:26.

Notice the flow of the narrative in the use of all the pronouns after Acts 1:15 points to the 120 persons being baptized with the Holy Spirit in Acts 2:4 (cf. Acts 1:5).

Acts 1:15-2:4
(15) In those days Peter stood up among the brothers (the company of persons was in all about 120) and said,
(16) “Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus.
(17) For he was numbered among us and was allotted his share in this ministry.”
(18) (Now this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness, and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out.
(19) And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the field was called in their own language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)
(20) “For it is written in the Book of Psalms, “‘May his camp become desolate, and let there be no one to dwell in it’; and “‘Let another take his office.’
(21) So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
(22) beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us—one of these men must become with us a witness to his resurrection.”
(23) And they put forward two, Joseph called Barsabbas, who was also called Justus, and Matthias.
(24) And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which one of these two you have chosen
(25) to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.”
(26) And they cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthias, and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
(1) When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place.
(2) And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting.
(3) And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them.
(4) And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.

 

[DJT_47]

I know that many from the church of Christ will insist that only the 12 apostles were baptized with the Holy Spirit in Acts 2:4.
The argument is that the word "they" in Acts 2:1 refers back to the "eleven apostles" (and Matthias) in Acts 1:26. However, "they" in Acts 2:1 corresponds with the "they" at the beginning of Acts 1:26.

Notice the flow of the narrative in the use of all the pronouns after Acts 1:15 points to the 120 persons being baptized with the Holy Spirit in Acts 2:4 (cf. Acts 1:5).

Acts 1:15-2:4
(15) In those days Peter stood up among the brothers (the company of persons was in all about 120) and said,
(16) “Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus.
(17) For he was numbered among us and was allotted his share in this ministry.”
(18) (Now this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness, and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out.
(19) And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the field was called in their own language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)
(20) “For it is written in the Book of Psalms, “‘May his camp become desolate, and let there be no one to dwell in it’; and “‘Let another take his office.’
(21) So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
(22) beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us—one of these men must become with us a witness to his resurrection.”
(23) And they put forward two, Joseph called Barsabbas, who was also called Justus, and Matthias.
(24) And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which one of these two you have chosen
(25) to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.”
(26) And they cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthias, and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
(1) When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place.
(2) And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting.
(3) And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them.
(4) And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Yes, you are wrong. Don't confuse the gift of the Spirit in Acts 2:38 which is gift (singular), with gifts (plural) of the Spirit, which are the various miraculous manifestations of the Spirit we commonly refer to as gifts. In Acts 2:38, it's the Spirit itself. The gifts, which are of a miraculous nature, are those listed in 1 Cor 12:8-10. Two different things. The gifts were imparted by the laying on of the apostle's hands.

 

[Fred]

Yes, you are wrong. Don't confuse the gift of the Spirit in Acts 2:38 which is gift (singular), with gifts (plural) of the Spirit, which are the various miraculous manifestations of the Spirit we commonly refer to as gifts. In Acts 2:38, it's the Spirit itself. The gifts, which are of a miraculous nature, are those listed in 1 Cor 12:8-10. Two different things. The gifts were imparted by the laying on of the apostle's hands.

Both read "gift of the Holy Spirit" in both passages (Acts 2:38; 10:45). You are confused.

Furthermore, that these Gentiles had the gift of tongues proves they were "in the church" = saved (1 Corinthians 12:28) before their water baptism.

 

[DJT_47]

Both read "gift of the Holy Spirit" in both passages (Acts 2:38; 10:45). You are confused.

Furthermore, that these Gentiles had the gift of tongues proves they were "in the church" = saved (1 Corinthians 12:28) before their water baptism.

Gi study some more and harder. Goodbye

 

[Fred]

Gi study some more and harder. Goodbye

Gi?

You men "Go".

In terms of water baptism being necessary for the salvation of these Gentiles you are simply seeing a mirage.

 

[ChristB4us]

I'll provide you with a detailed repost of mine explaining Acts 2 and 10. In both cases, the Spirit fell miraculously which is not the indwelling of the Spirit discussed in Acts 2:38, and in both cases, the Spirit fell in this manner to validate what what occurring. Why? Because the church was started in both cases, 1st with the Jews in Jerusalem in Acts 2, and then in Caesarea with the Gentiles in Acts 10.

REPOST

Start with Luke 3:16 and Luke 24:47-49 both restated in Acts 1:4-5. What's it say? One will come that will baptize with the Holy Ghost and with fire, in Luke 3:16, and in Luke 24:47-49, it says repentance and remission of sins should be preached starting at Jerusalem and to tarry there until they received power ftom on high. And what's Acts 1:4-5,say? It restates both of these.4And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.And in Luke 24:47-49, who was this addressed to? Starting in verse 36 of Luke 24, Jesus appears to the APOSTLES and verses 47-49 is his instructions to them, the apostles.

47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48And ye are witnesses of these things. 49And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Then Acts 1:8 says the following

8But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth

It's clear that the falling of the Holy Ghost with fire was meant for THE APOSTLE'S as well as the power from on high, and that this occurred as recorded in Acts 2; read it all carefully.

Futher, Acts 10 was also a unique demonstration of the Holy Ghost and unilaterally by the Holy Ghost falling on the Gentiles first and unlike Acts 2 where it fell on the apostles, but also as a sign and validation from on high which there validated it was God's plan to bring the Gentiles into the body of Christ. In that case, it was validation to Peter and company. It fell on the Gentiles prior to baptism but they were then immediately baptized. Why? Because that's how you become part of the Lord's body; you're baptized into Christ as noted in scripture such as Acts 2:38-47 and elsewhere.

The power from on high and the miraculous manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit, not the Spirit itself, but it's gifts as noted in 1 Cor 12:8-10, are manifested by the laying on of the APOSTLE'S hands as noted in Acts 6:6, Acts 8:18 and Acts 19:6, and it was the apostles who performed the miraculous gifts of the Spirit as noted in Acts 5:12 and those that they laid their hands on such as Stephen as recoreded in Acts 6:6.

The scriptures prove themselves.

@Fred was disagreeing with you about that baptism being done as by water baptism instead of the baptism with the Holy Ghost.

Your reference to the disciples being saved at Pentecost, should point out that water baptism was not being done at that time when they were saved on Pentecost. They were already baptized in Jesus's name before Pentecost, but just pointing out, at the time they were born again of the Spirit, we when Jesus was no longer present with them for why He said the father will send the Holy Spirit on al those that believe.

Now for the Jews that were saved that day after His disciples were saved, although convoluted, the call to repent given by Peter to those Jews that were ricked in their hearts for having crucified Jesus in "unbelief" was to believe in Him for the remission of sins as water baptism has nothing to do with that kind remission of sins as John the Baptist water baptism was used for. Acts 2:36-39 in context.

This same Peter preached the same gospel to the Gentiles that believing in Him is how they had received the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost upon hearing the word. Acts 10:43-48

So repent to the unbelieving Jews was to believe in Him for the remission of sins and believing in Him was for the remission of sins for the Gentiles too.

Otherwise, one has to wonder where is the call to believe in Him for the remission for sins to the Jews and the call to repent to the Gentiles for the remission of sins when there is only one gospel and Peter was preaching only one gospel.