Are you born again ? Then here you are...

[donadams]

So how many times must the holy word of God say it before it is true?

Keeping in mind that faith without works applies only to salvation from the wrath of God (Ro 5:9) on your sin at the new birth.

It does not refer to the entire Christian life where sancification is through obedience in the Holy Spirit which leads to righteousness leading to holiness (Ro 16:16, 19).

Okay, no one's faith accomplished the redemption. God accomplished the redemption on the cross.

However, though our faith that remission of sin is applied to us, which is redemption from God's wrath (Ro 5:9) on our sin.

Cannot be a disconnect between salvation and the Christian life, rather the Christian life should lead to salvation.
Rom 13:11 salvation nearer than when we first believed…

1 Peter 1:9
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part!

Justification:
then when we believe in him and his redemption we are justified in that faith and baptism!

Sanctification:
then we are in Christ and his church by grace faith and baptism we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, other sacraments etc.

Salvation:
then when we are faithful to Christ and in his grace at death enter salvation!

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)
Thanks

 

[donadams]

Eph. 2:8 refers to salvation, of which redemption and justification are elements; although that verse only mentions having been saved, not its constituent parts.

Eph. 2:4-10 (WEB)
4 But God, being rich in mercy, for his great love with which he loved us,
5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6 and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
7 that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus;
8 for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, that no one would boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared before that we would walk in them.


Assuming that you meant "whose faith?", the answer is that the focus in not upon whose faith it is, but upon the One towards whom the faith is directed - the Lord Jesus Christ.

It refers to redemption not salvation

Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part!

Justification:
then when we believe in him and his redemption we are justified in that faith and baptism!

Sanctification:
then we are in Christ and his church by grace faith and baptism we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, other sacraments etc.

Salvation:
then when we are faithful to Christ and in his grace at death enter salvation!

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

 

[donadams]

It says not your faith!

 

[donadams]

Scripture never says “by grace thru faith alone”!

 

[Eleanor]

Depends on whether it's God's WORD, or nothing more that your / your religious system's private interpretation of God's Word.

Is this the latest defense against authoritative apostolic teaching; i.e., denying simple text such as:

1) "it is by grace you have been saved through faith. . .not by works." (Eph 2:8-9)

2) "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law." (Ro 3:28)

The problem is not interpretation, the problem is unbelief.

 

[Eleanor]

Scripture never says “by grace thru faith alone”!

Hermeneutics not your expertise?

 

[Eleanor]

Cannot be a disconnect between salvation and the Christian life, rather the Christian life should lead to salvation.

The Christian life is the result of salvation. There is no Christian life without it.

Rom 13:11 salvation nearer than when we first believed…

In conext, refers to the resurrection.

1 Peter 1:9
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Yes, salvation is the purpose of faith.

Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part!
Justification:
then when we believe in him and his redemption we are justified in that faith and baptism!
Sanctification:
then we are in Christ and his church by grace faith and baptism we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, other sacraments etc.
Salvation:
then when we are faithful to Christ and in his grace at death enter salvation!

Salvation is:
past = by faith and the sovereign new birth (Eph 2:8-9, Jn 3:3-7),
present = in sanctification (1 Pe 1:9) through obedience in the Holy Spirit which leads to righteousness leading to holiness (Ro 6:16, 19), and
future = resurrection (Ro 8:22-23, 13:11)

2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) zealous of good works. (Sanctification)
Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.(Salvation)

Anyone who does not endure; i.e., apostasizes, was never born again and saved in the first place.

 

[Eleanor]

Nothing to explain FAITH is God's gift according to Rom 10:17, and its necessary attributes are given at Heb 11:1.

Good to see you agree with me.

 

[donadams]

Hermeneutics not your expertise?

All scripture (73 books) are inspired
Says nothing about hermeneutics

 

[Eleanor]

All scripture (73 books) are inspired
Says nothing about hermeneutics

Also says nothing about knowing an alphabet or the law of gravity.

 

[donadams]

Also says nothing about knowing an alphabet or the law of gravity.

Only knowledge of Christ and His church matter!

 

[donadams]

The apostles are commanded to teach and sanctify all men it’s a kingdom not a scripture study!

 

[David1701]

It refers to redemption not salvation

Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part!

Redemption is a vital element of salvation, which means that your "not" creates a false dichotomy.

Justification:
then when we believe in him and his redemption we are justified in that faith and baptism!

Justification is through (or by means of) faith. The Bible never says that we are justified by baptism!

Acts 13:37-41 (WEB)
37 But he whom God raised up saw no decay.
38 Be it known to you therefore, brothers, that through this man is proclaimed to you remission of sins,
39 and by him everyone who believes is justified from all things, from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.
40 Beware therefore, lest that come on you which is spoken in the prophets:
41 ‘Behold, you scoffers, and wonder, and perish;
for I work a work in your days,
a work which you will in no way believe, if one declares it to you.’”

Sanctification:
then we are in Christ and his church by grace faith and baptism we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, other sacraments etc.

Sanctification is also not by baptism, but by grace, through faith, resulting in good works.

Salvation:
then when we are faithful to Christ and in his grace at death enter salvation!

If you are not already saved by the time you die, then you certainly won't be afterwards!

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

You do realise (I hope) that sticking comments in brackets, in the middle of Bible verses, does not make those comments true (by osmosis?).

 

[donadams]

Eph. 2:8 refers to salvation, of which redemption and justification are elements; although that verse only mentions having been saved, not its constituent parts.

Eph. 2:4-10 (WEB)
4 But God, being rich in mercy, for his great love with which he loved us,
5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6 and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
7 that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus;
8 for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, that no one would boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared before that we would walk in them.


Assuming that you meant "whose faith?", the answer is that the focus in not upon whose faith it is, but upon the One towards whom the faith is directed - the Lord Jesus Christ.

Does this Faith united one to Christ?

Thanks

 

[David1701]

Does this Faith united one to Christ?

Thanks

Faith itself is like a channel, through which God gives us grace; so, it is God who unites us with Christ, through faith.

 

[donadams]

Redemption is a vital element of salvation, which means that your "not" creates a false dichotomy.


Justification is through (or by means of) faith. The Bible never says that we are justified by baptism!

Acts 13:37-41 (WEB)
37 But he whom God raised up saw no decay.
38 Be it known to you therefore, brothers, that through this man is proclaimed to you remission of sins,
39 and by him everyone who believes is justified from all things, from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.
40 Beware therefore, lest that come on you which is spoken in the prophets:
41 ‘Behold, you scoffers, and wonder, and perish;
for I work a work in your days,
a work which you will in no way believe, if one declares it to you.’”


Sanctification is also not by baptism, but by grace, through faith, resulting in good works.

If you are not already saved by the time you die, then you certainly won't be afterwards!


You do realise (I hope) that sticking comments in brackets, in the middle of Bible verses, does not make those comments true (by osmosis?).

Baptism is part of the Christian faith see below
Thanks

 

[donadams]

The Christian sacrament* of baptismal regeneration is required for the new covenant and salvation!

*this promise acts 2:38-39 is a sacred oath from God ez 36:25-27 and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Initiation!!!


Faith & Baptism is the initiation of the new and eternal covenant!

You cannot enter on you’re own or by “faith alone”!

You cannot receive Christ or grace by “faith alone”!

“Accept Christ as you’re personal lord and savior” is fundamentalist tradition not found scripture!

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Baptismal regeneration a new creation in Christ! 2 Cor 5:17

A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27
Acts 2:38-39 (this promise)

No baptism no grace!

A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.

You cannot enter on you’re own or by faith alone!

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,


Baptism!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!


Christ instituted the holy church to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation. (repent and believe the gospel) with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls!
Matt 28:19






Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 eph 4:30 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!

Faith and baptism!

Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!

Only James 2:24 a man is justified by works and not by “faith alone”

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!




“Faith alone” Questions

where does ez 36: 25:27 Say “faith alone”?

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2

Lk 8
The parable of the sower, all four had faith are they all not saved?


Lk 23:39 did not the bad thief say; save us? “Faith alone”?

Lk 18:14
Why did the publican not mention Jesus Christ or make a profession of belief, but prayer and virtue!

Why must we also suffer?
Faith alone not enough”?

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29 not called to believe alone but also to suffer for Christ’s sake.

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matt 24:13 endures “in Christ” to the end shall be saved.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Where does it say “faith alone”?

“Faith alone” ain’t biblical!

 

[donadams]

Sacraments are the fruits of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ!

The holy sacrifice of Christ, His passion, blood, and death producing unlimited fruits of divine grace, actual and sanctifying grace! Jn 1:29 Jn 1:16-17 Jn 10:10
And they are applied to our souls in the church by faith and the seven sacraments!



“This promise” (sacred oath of God or sacrament) of the Father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27 Also a mystery Mk 4:11 Eph 5:32 eph 6:19 1 Tim 3:9 3:16 Col 1:27 2:2 4:3

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Heb 7:21 For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
(Oath = sacrament)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises

2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

Life of supernatural grace merited by Christ in His passion and death!

An oath to sacramental life in the new covenant in union with the mediator and communion with God, and the saints!

Promise of the Father acts 2:23-39
Promise is an oath and an oath is a sacrament! This promise of the sacrament of baptism refers to ez. 36:25-27

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by baptism!

Jn 1:5-5 abide in Him, apart from Him you can do nothing.

Jn 10:10 life, (grace more abundantly)
Jn 1: 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Jn 1:16-17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
(Thru faith and the sacraments!)

 

[donadams]

Faith itself is like a channel, through which God gives us grace; so, it is God who unites us with Christ, through faith.

So without faith we are apart from Christ? Right

 

[David1701]

Baptism is part of the Christian faith see below
Thanks

Yes it is. Baptism is an act of obedience, by a person whom the Lord has saved by grace through faith.

Acts 8:35-38 (Webster)
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached to him Jesus.
36 And as they went on their way, they came to a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thy heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they both went down into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.