Are you Arminian, Calvinist, or other?

[makesends]

No, Scripture Alone is very useful. I would deny that Scripture is the only God Ordained Spiritual Authority. Those who have received the Spiritual Gift of Teaching, teach Authoritative lessons to us. Saint Paul said, 'I say to you, not the Lord...'. In that instance, he taught something as a Teacher with the Spiritual Gift of Teaching; that didn't have to be received as a Command from the Lord...

To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. - 1 Corinthians 7:12


When I say things like this, I half expect the Argument to end; but what in the world am I thinking?? Why should I have to use a Verse, to defend my not having to only use Verses?

Just kidding Why? Because the Verse is the highest and final Spiritual Authority to end our dispute...

. Ok, and I agree completely with your last sentence there.

As for Paul, I think what he is saying there is not by Apostolic authority. He is making a claim of opinion, that does not carry the weight of the word of God. He is making it plain that he is not speaking for God, there. If, as you say, he is making a statement that doesn't have to be received as a command from the Lord, then it lacks the authority of Scripture. I'm not saying it is completely without authority, as members of the body submit in some ways to the leaders, but the early church needed the apostles. The current church does not, though we do need able and gifted teachers. We have the Scriptures.

 

[ReverendRV]

. Ok, and I agree completely with your last sentence there.

As for Paul, I think what he is saying there is not by Apostolic authority. He is making a claim of opinion, that does not carry the weight of the word of God. He is making it plain that he is not speaking for God, there. If, as you say, he is making a statement that doesn't have to be received as a command from the Lord, then it lacks the authority of Scripture. I'm not saying it is completely without authority, as members of the body submit in some ways to the leaders, but the early church needed the apostles. The current church does not, though we do need able and gifted teachers. We have the Scriptures.

We're in total agreement...

 

[ReverendRV]

. Ok, and I agree completely with your last sentence there.

As for Paul, I think what he is saying there is not by Apostolic authority. He is making a claim of opinion, that does not carry the weight of the word of God. He is making it plain that he is not speaking for God, there. If, as you say, he is making a statement that doesn't have to be received as a command from the Lord, then it lacks the authority of Scripture. I'm not saying it is completely without authority, as members of the body submit in some ways to the leaders, but the early church needed the apostles. The current church does not, though we do need able and gifted teachers. We have the Scriptures.

I get why people are having a hard time with the things I say. They are hard sayings, right?

But these Christians will never leave Jesus Christ over a hard saying. The WCF says, the Doctrines of Men, as long as Scripture endorses it; is Good Doctrine...

That's a hard saying for some Sola Scripturists...

 

[David1701]

No; Jesus only bore the Confessed Sins of the Unconditionally Elect...

Jesus only bore the Sins Nailed to his Cross by Believers. Use this point to prove Limited Atonement. Because I believe All Sin isn't Nailed to the Cross, I am a 5-Point Calvinist; right?

No matter what else I say that may sound unusual...

What about the sins that you don't confess, because you don't notice, or forget about them? Didn't Jesus bear those as well?

The sins were not nailed to Jesus' Cross by believers!! He bore my sins before I existed...

 

[makesends]

Im sorry but that sounds extra-biblical.

Where scripture is silent on something it does not then make it a matter of one's own interpretation. Where scripture is silent, that is where we should stop, and not speculate. We are not on God's level.

Agreed. And there is a reason for that!

Where we think scripture is silent, it often is not. The fact we don't see something there doesn't mean it isn't there. For example, if God calls himself the creator, it may mean to us only certain things, but what God means by it is far beyond what we will ever in this life understand.

On top of that, all of it ties to all the rest of it. Therefore, the fact we don't see the tie of one passage to what he means by 'creator' doesn't mean that it isn't given in Scripture. It only means we don't see it.

BUT there are things we do suspect may be so, within scripture, where speculation is inevitable, but MUST ALWAYS be understood as only speculation, and even what 'possible' truth there is within the speculation is necessarily incompletely understood and incompletely expressed by the speculation.

I have a speculation that I love. I think the Revelation 21 New Jerusalem adorned as a bride, IS the Bride of Christ, and I have no end of reasons, from Scripture, to think so. And no matter what words I put to it, and even believe there is truth to it, my notions don't even begin to state the depth of the truth of it. So I have to say it is speculation, and not of itself at all, doctrine. There is only truth TO it. If it is enlightenment, and overwhelmingly eye-opening, it is only weakly so.

 

[makesends]

I get why people are having a hard time with the things I say. They are hard sayings, right?

But these Christians will never leave Jesus Christ over a hard saying. The WCF says, the Doctrines of Men, as long as Scripture endorses it; is Good Doctrine...

That's a hard saying for some Sola Scripturists...

So far, my problems with what you say are not that they are hard to deal with, but just hard trying to figure out just what you are saying.

 

[ReverendRV]

What about the sins that you don't confess, because you don't notice, or forget about them? Didn't Jesus bear those as well?

The sins were not nailed to Jesus' Cross by believers!! He bore my sins before I existed...

Yes, he bore all of our Sins. Even when we don't know we have offended a Brother, and can't drop what we're doing and be reconciled; so we can THEN Worship...

I think these things are pretty simple Brother; and in a way, they don't need to be asked. I thought you would like my point about how the Cross of Christ was Limited to only bearing the Nailed Sins of the Unconditional Elect...

 

[ReverendRV]

So far, my problems with what you say are not that they are hard to deal with, but just hard trying to figure out just what you are saying.

That's true too. A lot of these Posters have known me for 15 years; and I STILL get the scrutiny

So far I'm passing; but it's been a LONG test

 

[Carbon]

That's true too. A lot of these Posters have known me for 15 years; and I STILL get the scrutiny

But Rev, you have known some of us for many years and know we believe scripture speaks fine for itself. We don't need to try and explain things in our opinions thinking it's a higher power or just a hard saying. But we are with Voddie when he says, " Just say whats in the word."
Scripture interprets scripture.

I have to ask why you don't use scripture that often?

I believe these are legit questions. If someone had a few questions for me I hope they would ask.

 

[ReverendRV]

But Rev, you have known some of us for many years and know we believe scripture speaks fine for itself. We don't need to try and explain things in our opinions thinking it's a higher power or just a hard saying. But we are with Voddie when he says, " Just say what in the word."
Scripture interprets scripture.

I have to ask why you don't use scripture that often?

I believe these are legit questions. If someone had a few questions for me I hope they would ask.

Fair enough Brother...

One reason I use Theology and Doctrine so much, is that the other side uses a LOT of Verses; like Tom does. But Tom doesn't use Systematic Theology...

Right?

I often tell people on CARM, "These are the Theology Boards; not the Verbatim Verse Boards". Over there, the Arminianism and Calvinism Board is on the Theology Forum. Arminianism and Calvinism are Doctrines of Systematic Theology...

I already know that in your opinions, y'all hold it against Civic, that he didn't use enough Verses

 

[Carbon]

Fair enough Brother...

One reason I use Theology and Doctrine so much, is that the other side uses a LOT of Verses; like Tom does. But Tom doesn't use Systematic Theology...

Right?

But shouldn't we always support our theological beliefs and doctrine with scripture?

 

[ReverendRV]

But shouldn't we always support our theological beliefs and doctrine with scripture?

Not always. Sometimes we need Systematic Theology to make the difference. Tom's Verse is True. Your Verse is True. Together, his Verse and your Verse have a combined meaning that's not in either Verse...

For instance; I have been listening to Debate on Clubhouse. Some people use a Verse that Jesus is a Man. Others use a Verse that says Jesus is God. Neither side is winning. But the Verses are Systematized into the Doctrine of the Hypostatic Union...

That Wins...

 

[makesends]

That's true too. A lot of these Posters have known me for 15 years; and I STILL get the scrutiny

So far I'm passing; but it's been a LONG test

The Scruten Eyes!

 

[Carbon]

Not always. Sometimes we need Systematic Theology to make the difference. Tom's Verse is True. Your Verse is True. Together, his Verse and your Verse have a combined meaning that's not in either Verse...

Well, that all depends on what it's about, if it's about winning then we could use all sorts of things, opinions and all. How has your systematic theology worked with Tom so far?
If a person is going to change their beliefs it's going to be from God, and this will be through his word applied to the heart, not our opinions and systems.

For instance; I have been listening to Debate on Clubhouse. Some people use a Verse that Jesus is a Man. Others use a Verse that says Jesus is God. Neither side is winning. But the Verses are Systematized into the Doctrine of the Hypostatic Union...

Well, I just think it's scripture that has the power, if someone does not understand it, do your best to explain it. But to use a systematic, opinion or whatever then to think someone does not understand is kinda arrogant, don't you think?

No one is going to talk me into believing an option unless scripture supports it. And that will be by scripture interpreting scripture.

 

[ReverendRV]

Well, that all depends on what it's about, if it's about winning then we could use all sorts of things, opinions and all. How has your systematic theology works ed with Tom so far?
If a person is going to change their beliefs it's going to be from God, and this will be through his word applied to the heart, not our opinions and systems.

Well, I just think it's scripture that has the power, if someone does not understand it, do your best to explain it. But to use a systematic, opinion or whatever then to think someone does not understand is kinda arrogant, don't you think?

No one is going to talk me into believing an option unless scripture supports it. And that will be by scripture interpreting scripture.

I agree...

Tom also believes that Scripture has the power; he's a Provisionist. You and I believe that Scripture in the hand of the Spirit explains it. It's really Spiritually Understood...

 

[Carbon]

I agree...

Tom also believes that Scripture has the power; he's a Provisionist.

Yes, thats where the grace is with a semi-pelagians. They believe everyone has enough grace to believe the scriptures.

You and I believe that Scripture in the hand of the Spirit explains it. It's really Spiritually Understood...

And whether Tom likes it or not, if God opens his eyes to the truth, he will believe it, it's irresistible.

That's why I say brother, use scripture when you explain theology, let scripture speak, let God use His word. We cannot help God to save anyone.

 

[ReverendRV]

Well, that all depends on what it's about, if it's about winning then we could use all sorts of things, opinions and all. How has your systematic theology worked with Tom so far?
If a person is going to change their beliefs it's going to be from God, and this will be through his word applied to the heart, not our opinions and systems.

Well, I just think it's scripture that has the power, if someone does not understand it, do your best to explain it. But to use a systematic, opinion or whatever then to think someone does not understand is kinda arrogant, don't you think?

No one is going to talk me into believing an option unless scripture supports it. And that will be by scripture interpreting scripture.

Let me ask you; you're a Theologian. Why?

If not you, why was John Gill a Theologian?

 

[Carbon]

Let me ask you; you're a Theologian. Why?

Well I guess in a sense, everyone is.

If not you, why was John Gill a Theologian?

Get to the point, please.

 

[ReverendRV]

Well I guess in a sense, everyone is.

Get to the point, please.

The point is, if we're Theologians; Theology is Good...

Of course Scripture is Good...

 

[Carbon]

@ReverendRV

Theologian: A divine; a person well versed in theology, or a professor of divinity.