Are you Arminian, Calvinist, or other?

[ChristB4us]

I like the characterization of Hebrews 6, concerning the Elect: 7 "Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God."

On the other hand, 1 Corinthians 3 says (and it is talking about the Elect, not just anyone whose works are burned), "15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

Actually they go together as the rain received as the seed is received and thus the foundation, so what we build on that foundation is what we grow on that earth shall be judged. The thickets and the thorns will be burned up as the wood, stubble and hay shall be burned up but the foundation remains as the earth does too thus salvation is not lost but whether we be received as vessels unto honor in his House for departing from iniquity or as vessels unto dishonor for NOT departing from iniquity is the end reward for how we will be judged by those works on that foundation.

 

[ChristB4us]

They had laws to abide by. It was his duty to have him arrested.

Do you therefore doubt that he had warned Servetus not to come to Geneva?

Well, when the New World Order makes it a law to receive the mark of the beast in order to buy & sell, I am not doing it.

If USA make the Statue of Liberty some shrine we are to bow to one day, I am not doing that either.

When Christ says in John 16:1-3 that there will be people that believe they are doing God's service by killing us, there is no wiggle room for us to be killing any heretic, especially when Jesus had taught excommunication ONLY in Matthew 18:15-17

Better to obey the Lord & abide in His words leaning on Him to help us to do this rather than use the excuse of the law to get rid of a heretic.

 

[Deleted member 5]

I believe the reprobate part is about failing to run that race as abiding in Him as His disciple by His grace & By His help.

I disagree, you're conflating the reprobate with disciples. Reprobates don't have a race to run, are and were never in Christ, so there is no failure to abide by His grace and His help.

2 Peter 3rd Chapter has Peter warning about the latter days as mockers will walk after their own lusts and how they ignore how the world was covered with water per that biblical global flood and how the same world is heading for a fiery judgment upon the earth for why he is exhorting believers not to give in to the mocking but to endure to the end, abiding in Him as His disciple as Paul would exhort by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily as the apostle John would exhort in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son thus agreeing with Peter by enduring to the end to be saved from what is coming on the earth.

Too much of a run-on sentence above to deal with.

 

[Deleted member 5]

They had laws to abide by. It was his duty to have him arrested.

Do you therefore doubt that he had warned Servetus not to come to Geneva?

Exactly. He didn't want him to come and be arrested. The death of Servetus was his own undoing.

 

[ChristB4us]

I disagree, you're conflating the reprobate with disciples. Reprobates don't have a race to run, are and were never in Christ, so there is no failure to abide by grace and His help.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

So not only is there a risk of not only losing the reward of crown, but also becoming a castaway as some would say a reprobate.

Too much of a run-on sentence above to deal with.

2 Peter 3rd Chapter has Peter warning about the latter days as mockers will walk after their own lusts and how they ignore how the world was covered with water per that biblical global flood and how the same world is heading for a fiery judgment upon the earth.

This is why Peter is exhorting believers not to give in to the mocking but to endure to the end, abiding in Him as His disciple.

As Paul would exhort by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily.

As the apostle John would exhort in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son.

Thus, Paul & John are agreeing with Peter by enduring to the end to be saved from what is coming on the earth.

 

[ChristB4us]

Exactly. He didn't want him to come and be arrested. The death of Servetus was his own undoing.

But Calvin was the one that had him arrested. Seems to me he is lacking patience & meekness to those that oppose himself.

It is like going to a Christian forum that refuses to defend the Nicene Creed of 381 A,D, which is their official statement of faith and no challenges are to be given it or else banned. They will not teach it nor defend it and so any challenges to it gets banned.

Kind of like not being able to give an answer to those that ask of you but if the one asking you is dead, problem solved.

Yeah I know. They had exchanges between the 2 but he had him arrested and he knew that the death penalty could very well be the result if he was thinking death might compel Servitus to repent to save him from heresy. It did not work and Calvin went for a more humane form of death.

The point is.. we are to prove all things by Him and that includes everything taught by Calvin. Do not take anything at face value.

 

[Deleted member 5]

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

You're eisegeting reprobates into the text. Again "Reprobates don't have a race to run, are and were never in Christ, so there is no failure to abide by His grace and His help."

If a person goes that route, 1 John 2:19 gives us the answer.

You're teaching loss of salvation, even though you deny that you do so.

So not only is there a risk of not only losing the reward of crown, but also becoming a castaway as some would say a reprobate.

1 John 2:19. That, and you're assuming meaning into the text of 1 Cor. 9:24 that's not there.

2 Peter 3rd Chapter has Peter warning about the latter days as mockers will walk after their own lusts and how they ignore how the world was covered with water per that biblical global flood and how the same world is heading for a fiery judgment upon the earth.

This is why Peter is exhorting believers not to give in to the mocking but to endure to the end, abiding in Him as His disciple.

That's descriptive of true believers, not prescriptive.

As Paul would exhort by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily.

As the apostle John would exhort in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son.

Thus, Paul & John are agreeing with Peter by enduring to the end to be saved from what is coming on the earth.

That's descriptive of true believers, not prescriptive. By your own misunderstanding you're preaching works salvation.

 

[Iconoclast]

I cannot take him seriously.

We know you subscribe to the 101 podcast brother! No need to deny it...confess

 

[makesends]

Well, when the New World Order makes it a law to receive the mark of the beast in order to buy & sell, I am not doing it.

If USA make the Statue of Liberty some shrine we are to bow to one day, I am not doing that either.

When Christ says in John 16:1-3 that there will be people that believe they are doing God's service by killing us, there is no wiggle room for us to be killing any heretic, especially when Jesus had taught excommunication ONLY in Matthew 18:15-17

Better to obey the Lord & abide in His words leaning on Him to help us to do this rather than use the excuse of the law to get rid of a heretic.

To you, then it is cut and dried. In a theocracy of sorts, not so much. I think you are going a bit far, though, to assume that Calvin used it for the purpose of getting rid of a heretic. As I mentioned, he even told Servetus, for this very reason, not to come to Geneva

 

[Deleted member 5]

But Calvin was the one that had him arrested. Seems to me he is lacking patience & meekness to those that oppose himself.

It is like going to a Christian forum that refuses to defend the Nicene Creed of 381 A,D, which is their official statement of faith and no challenges are to be given it or else banned. They will not teach it nor defend it and so any challenges to it gets banned.

Kind of like not being able to give an answer to those that ask of you but if the one asking you is dead, problem solved.

Yeah I know. They had exchanges between the 2 but he had him arrested and he knew that the death penalty could very well be the result if he was thinking death might compel Servitus to repent to save him from heresy. It did not work and Calvin went for a more humane form of death.

The point is.. we are to prove all things by Him and that includes everything taught by Calvin. Do not take anything at face value.

Servetus arrest was his own undoing. You need to grasp the word accountability.

 

[Deleted member 5]

We know you subscribe to the 101 podcast brother! No need to deny it...confess

Good to hear from you brother!

 

[ChristB4us]

You're eisegeting reprobates into the text. Again "Reprobates don't have a race to run, are and were never in Christ, so there is no failure to abide by His grace and His help."

If they do not look to the author & finisher of our faith but rather to themselves by keeping that commitment, then they have fallen by grace. If they sow to the flesh in reaping corruption, they are disqualified and thus reprobates and shall become castaways as Paul warned that can happen to himself if he did not bring his body under subjection.

If a person goes that route, 1 John 2:19 gives us the answer.

That is in light of the many antichrists that are out there as stated in 1 John 2:18

You're teaching loss of salvation, even though you deny that you do so.

It is understandable why you see it that way.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So here we see the Lord denying them because any work on that foundation that denies Him, He will deny them, but even in the case of a former believer that denies Him verbally, He still abides even after denying them. How else can you explain the verses below?

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

So there are 2 kinds of vessels in His House; the vessels unto honor as vessels of gold and silver and the vessels unto dishonor the vessels of wood and earth. If a believer departs from iniquity before the Bridegroom comes, he shall be received as vessels unto honor in His House.

If the believer does not depart from iniquity by the time the Bridegroom comes, He will be damned as that vessel unto dishonor, vessels of wood and earth, for not departing from iniquity. If you do not believe that, then explain why departing from iniquity is what makes one a vessel unto honor? Then compare with this verse below.

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

How can anyone break even the least of His commandments and teaches others so be a part of his kingdom of heaven as called the "least"? I'd say that because they did teach that is why they are punished and then called the least as akin to becoming vessels of wood & earth, vessels unto dishonor in His House. Pert Hebrews 12:3-11 & Luke 12:40-49 I believe the scourging and stripes they receive for not being ready is why they will not be doing that again at their resurrection after the great tribulation in serving the King of kings on earth.

You cannot say they were never saved because of how He will judge every believer by what they built on that foundation.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Worst case scenario for a believer that sows to the flesh in reaping corruption thus defiling the temple of God is physical death in verses 16-17 when left behind in that day verse 13 but the spirit is still saved per verse 15.

Akin to the warning given to the church at Thyatira that if they do not repent, they will be cast into the bed of the coming great tribulation.

Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

Sounds like He is acknowledging them as one of His churches, BUT....

20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

This is what I believe the pre great tribulation rapture is all about for when God will judge His house first as the Bridegroom. It mirrors what God told the church to do when excommunicating an unrepentant brother that was a fornicator.

1 Corinthians 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Casting believers not ready as found not abiding in Him but in unrepentant iniquity & thus left behind for the beast to wage war on them to the their deaths for the duration of the great tribulation in a literal sense. And continuing in that chapter about how He will hold the feast at the Marriage Supper table in Heaven...

8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

So running that race by looking to Jesus Christ for help in abiding in him & His words as His disciples is us moving unto perfection by His grace & by His help.

 

[ChristB4us]

1 John 2:19. That, and you're assuming meaning into the text of 1 Cor. 9:24 that's not there.

That's descriptive of true believers, not prescriptive.

That's descriptive of true believers, not prescriptive. By your own misunderstanding you're preaching works salvation.

Not when Jesus is warning saved believers to be ready; to repent from iniquity or else miss out on being partakers of the first fruits of the resurrection in being received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House which is that eternal glory that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus. As it is, those left behind are still in His House but to be resurrected after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor but in His House.

That is not a works salvation when they are still saved even when disqualified as reprobates for not running that race by faith in Jesus Christ as we cannot live that reconciled relationship with God without trusting Jesus Christ to be our Good Shepherd & Friend to help us to follow Him.

When the world and tribulations take our eyes off of Jesus, we will not be fruitful in our life with Him even though we are not walking with Him. He is within us always, waiting for us to rely on Him all the time for help in following Him.

If you really do not believe no saved believer can be left behind and that no one can be led astray...explain this below.

2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Romans 8:1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.... 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace..... 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. 9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

So unless they repent, they get left behind and will not inherit the kingdom of God as vessels unto honor in His Huse as vessels of gold & silver, but inherit it as vessels unto dishonor in His House, vessels of wood & earth after the great tribulation in serving the King of kings on earth.

 

[ChristB4us]

To you, then it is cut and dried. In a theocracy of sorts, not so much. I think you are going a bit far, though, to assume that Calvin used it for the purpose of getting rid of a heretic. As I mentioned, he even told Servetus, for this very reason, not to come to Geneva

Kind of like a restraining order or else. That is how I am seeing it, but we know God knows all things and so we can wait till then.

 

[ChristB4us]

Servetus arrest was his own undoing. You need to grasp the word accountability.

it is possible that he was thinking of that time when Peter & John were ordered to be silent.

Acts 4:18 And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus. 19 But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye. 20 For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.

So the question is.. did Calvin listen to Christ Jesus & His words? In light of John 16:1-3 & Matthew 18:15-17, I would say no.

 

[Iconoclast]

Good to hear from you brother!

Carbon invited me. Keeping an eye on you all! I live in the south now,lol This looks like a solid board

 

[Iconoclast]

Good to hear from you brother!

Miss interacting with all of you men, in one place. You are one of the few that have banned as much or more than me. You and Sg stir it up and I was was the little lamb, victim, put on coffee break, and stalked to 3 boards by LyingC

 

[Carbon]

Carbon invited me. Keeping an eye on you all! I live in the south now,lol This looks like a solid board

I'm glad you came, brother. We need someone to keep an eye on P4T.

 

[Iconoclast]

I'm glad you came, brother. We need someone to keep an eye on P4T.

Most of the suspects are here,lol I will send more your way,lol

 

[Deleted member 5]

it is possible that he was thinking of that time when Peter & John were ordered to be silent.

You're reaching desperately for a proof text.

Acts 4:18 And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus. 19 But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye. 20 For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.

The above text has nothing to do with this situation. You're still reaching.

So the question is.. did Calvin listen to Christ Jesus & His words? In light of John 16:1-3

The above text also has nothing to do with this situation. You're still reaching.

& Matthew 18:15-17, I would say no.

Servetus had time to repent, they'd gone the route to give him that opportunity thus your usage is misplaced.

Yet I noticed you skipped completely over the fact Servetus undoing was his own fault, and avoided personal accountability.