Adam's Sin Imputed To Mankind

[Arial]

Humans DON"T HAVE a "Sin nature". We have a HUMAN NATURE just like Adam, and Jesus.

It is a condition of our human nature that humans sin. We sin because it is our nature to sin. God did not create Adam with a nature to sin, but with a nature that could sin. In other words, given the opportunity to sin, as he was given by having the choice set before him, he could go either way. Of course we still have that same ability. Adam is the representative of all mankind, and this was ordained by God. What that means is that as Adam goes, so goes all of humanity.

Adam gained something for all of humanity that God did not give him----the knowledge of good and evil, whereas before he only knew good. In gaining this, knowledge something has been added as a part of our nature. Though we can still choose what is good, we also always have its opposite set before us---what is bad, and there will always be times when we choose what is bad because we desire it more. That is our sinful nature imputed to us through Adam.

Jesus had a human nature that did not have the sinful nature of Adam because He had no seed of Adam in Him. He was fathered by the Holy Spirit. He was not born in Adam.

 

[JIM]

Jesus had no sin nature as He was conceived by the Holy Spirit.
Adam had no sin until the fall as he was made by God.

That is a dichotomy that makes absolutely no sense at all.

 

[Arial]

That is a dichotomy that makes absolutely no sense at all.

It makes perfect sense. If it didn't then you can't trust your Bible or make sense of its nonsense, for it clearly states the same.

 

[CrowCross]

Jesus had no sin nature as He was conceived by the Holy Spirit.
Adam had no sin until the fall as he was made by God.

That is a dichotomy that makes absolutely no sense at all.

How are those views opposed?

 

[jeremiah1five]

You are making a liar out of God and His word. You also give a scenario of salvation that either makes the believer become divine, or still leaves us unable to stand before God.

Not divine, but Peter does say:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2 Peter 1:4.

And the "unction" we have is a down payment of the Holy Spirit:

20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
1 Jn 2:19–20.

"unction" = "chrisma" = "endowment" [of the Holy Spirit.]

 

[jeremiah1five]

If Christ actually took on Adams' nature as a sinner, He would have become a sinner.. Adam was not created as a sinner, he became one. We are born with that nature and do sin. Jesus dealt with both things for the believer, those God would give Him, but He did not become that in order to do it. As the only perfectly righteous man He was able to substitute Himself to take the punishment for sin and die as though He were a sinner, meeting God's justice against our sins. If Jesus actually took on our nature as a sinner, who then paid for His nature as a sinner?

So, according to your understanding Christ died for the acts of sin. This means man still has a sin nature which is unatoned. We go into glory with a sin nature.
Unlikely.

You neither understand imputation or what it means in Psalm 8 that man was crowned with glory at creation, or what it means to be created in His image and likeness. Gen clearly tells us God created man (Adam) in His image and likeness.

That man that is crowned with glory is the Son of God.
The image of God is not earthy of the earth, but above from heaven:

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1 Cor. 15:46–47.

What you are doing - without realizing it - is creating God in the image of man.
Is God's image really in the earthy, or is it in His Son from heaven?
As I have said, there is no better image of a Father than a Son.

Did God give man (Adam) dominion over the earth, or did He give His Son dominion over the earth and all creation?
Is man able with this so-called dominion able to gather fish in a net the way His Son had dominion over the fish and commanded that fish gather in the net?

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen. 1:26.

Is an earthy man from below really the image of God, or is His Son from heaven the true image of God? You seem to think the earthy is the image of God who is Spirit.

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 1 Cor. 15:43–45.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1 Co 15:46–47.

Who really possesses the image of God? An earthy man? Or the Son of God from heaven.

To be crowned with His glory, and to be made in His image and likeness, does not mean that any deity is duplicated in us any more than "His glory is over all the earth" or "His glory is seen in His creation: means that any deity is transferred to or found in any created thing. It means His glory is seen in His creation.

God is the standard by which everything in heaven and earth is judged against.
There is ONLY ONE PERSON who can stand before God blameless and that is a Holy Son.
If Adam possessed any one of God's Deific Attributes, he would have to possess ALL His Deific Attributes or fall short of His glory. If Adam was created Holy then God duplicated, copied, gave, shared His Glory with dirt. But Scripture says God gives His Glory to NO ONE.
Adam did not possess any Deific Nature or Attributes of God because God doesn't share His Glory as the prophet said.
Adam wasn't sinless. He sinned. There was a Command in the Garden to show him he was a sinner, to give him the knowledge of his sinfulness. the eating of the Tree didn't make him a sinner when he disobeyed God. God used the Tree to give Adam the KNOWLEDGE of his sinfulness. Since Adam was not created eternal - only God is eternal - he would have died even if he didn't eat from the Tree. That's because sin is death and death is sin. There's no escaping it.
Adam sinned. Sin comes from sinner. The last Adam proved this. He was sinless, He was Holy, and He did not sin. That's the result of someone who is sinless, or righteous, or holy. They DON'T sin.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

It is a condition of our human nature that humans sin. We sin because it is our nature to sin. God did not create Adam with a nature to sin, but with a nature that could sin.

God created Adam with the SAME HUMAN NATURE that I have, and Eve and Adam responded in exactly the way described in James 1.

In other words, given the opportunity to sin, as he was given by having the choice set before him, he could go either way. Of course we still have that same ability.

I agree.

Adam is the representative of all mankind, and this was ordained by God. What that means is that as Adam goes, so goes all of humanity.

Adam gained something for all of humanity that God did not give him----the knowledge of good and evil, whereas before he only knew good. In gaining this, knowledge something has been added as a part of our nature. Though we can still choose what is good, we also always have its opposite set before us---what is bad, and there will always be times when we choose what is bad because we desire it more. That is our sinful nature imputed to us through Adam.

I disagree, we've got the SAME NATURE Adam was created with, and we CAN SIN if we please, and we can resist sinning if we decide not to. The ONLY THING that changed in Adam was that he instantly DIED Spiritually, just like us when we sin the first time. AND, of course Adam's ENVIRONMENT was cursed, and became the environment we all live in now.

Jesus had a human nature that did not have the sinful nature of Adam because He had no seed of Adam in Him. He was fathered by the Holy Spirit. He was not born in Adam.

So what your saying is the Jesus WAS NEVER TEMPTED in every way AS WE ARE.

 

[Arial]

I disagree, we've got the SAME NATURE Adam was created with, and we CAN SIN if we please, and we can resist sinning if we decide not to. The ONLY THING that changed in Adam was that he instantly DIED Spiritually, just like us when we sin the first time.

And as his progeny we are born spiritually dead. Do you not see though, where if Adam did not know evil and then he did know evil, that would change his very nature? Not completely and no one says it did completely change his nature. Something was added to it.---knowledge of evil and now that he knows evil he will never avoid doing evil altogether. And one act of rebellion against God is enough to send us to hell----not to mention evil begets evil. One bad apple spoils the barrel of apples. I don't know what idea you are hanging on to that causes you to so resist the obvious.

So what your saying is the Jesus WAS NEVER TEMPTED in every way AS WE ARE.

That is NOT what I am saying AT ALL. How could you possible construe it that way? Did Adam have a nature that COULD sin? YES, because He DID. He didn't HAVE to, but he DID. Sin was not in HIS nature because did not create him with a SIN NATURE. Adam acquired that nature by SINNING. And passed it on to all his PROGENY. Everyone born in Adam sins. Jesus had a human nature that could sin, and could be given the choice to sin---just like Adam. But He was not BORN of the seed of ADAM, not born IN ADAM. He was tempted by the devil, but did not sin. He faced all the same temptations in this world that we do. But DID NOT SIN. They didn't tempt Him because He had other things on His mind and a purpose to fulfill and a war to win. ANd before that becomes too much for you to get ahold of and then say then He wasn't tempted. Look at it this way.

An alcoholic is tempted to drink when they see alcohol. Someone who has no interest in alcohol is not. But the same bottle of alcohol is there.

 

[Arial]

So, according to your understanding Christ died for the acts of sin. This means man still has a sin nature which is unatoned. We go into glory with a sin nature.
Unlikely.

No. Pay attention and follow along. Our sins had to be atoned for. So did the fact that we were born in Adam and as a human have a sin nature imputed to us through him.

Jesus took the penalty that our sins deserve and that must meet God's justice, which is eternal death.

The believer has been born again, from above. (John 3) The result of this new birth is that we are placed in Christ, born in Him, who never had a sin nature because He was not born in Adam. Out of Adam, into Christ. We still have our sin nature now, but when our body dies we no longer have the nature of the flesh, and at the resurrection, our body will be raised, its corruption putting on incorruption, just as Jesus was raised
from the dead. In Adam our inheritance is eternal death and hell. In Christ our inheritance is eternal life in God's kingdom.

That man that is crowned with glory is the Son of God.
The image of God is not earthy of the earth, but above from heaven:

Ps 8 speaks of humanity as a whole. Hebrews applies it to Jesus in His incarnation as one of us.

Does God say in Gen. "Let us make man in our image and likeness." And then create Adam from the dust of the ground? What do you think that means?

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1 Cor. 15:46–47.

42 So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. 43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”;[e] the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual. 47 The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall[f] also bear the image of the man of heaven
Read it. You are misapplying the scripture.

What you are doing - without realizing it - is creating God in the image of man.
Is God's image really in the earthy, or is it in His Son from heaven?
As I have said, there is no better image of a Father than a Son.

No I am not. That is simply the way you are interpreting both the scripture and what I said. It was not me who said God made man in His image and likeness, it was God. So are you accusing God of doing what you just accused me of? You think that image of God is Gen regarding the creation of man means the same thing as it does when it says that Jesus is the express image of the Father, and it doesn't.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

He faced all the same temptations in this world that we do. But DID NOT SIN.

True - Jesus (WHO HAD PERSONAL DESIRES) didn't allow them to "Conceive".

They didn't tempt Him

So He wasn't tempted as we are. And never felt the "PRESSURES" that we feel.

But that's NOT what the Bible says. He was "Touched" by our infirmities, and KNOWS the pain and longing of temptation (Heb 4:15)

An alcoholic is tempted to drink when they see alcohol. Someone who has no interest in alcohol is not. But the same bottle of alcohol is there.

But what you're missing (as in my case) all the alcohol in the world DOESN'T TEMPT ME. THERE'S NO TEMPTATION INVOLVED. NOTHING IN ME desires a "Rum and Coke", or a "Screwdriver".

A Cold Dr. Pepper WOULD BE a Temptation (particularly this summer in Dallas!!!).

The Bible, however stated that JESUS WAS TEMPTED not that He was "presented with things that tempted others". He experienced things that TEMPTED HIM. And satan knew which "enticement buttons" to push - Hunger, to prove who He was through natural means, and to be given Adam's dominion on earth (Luk 4:1-13), among others, sexual and otherwise, common to us "natural humans".

 

[Arial]

Did God give man (Adam) dominion over the earth, or did He give His Son dominion over the earth and all creation?
Is man able with this so-called dominion able to gather fish in a net the way His Son had dominion over the fish and commanded that fish gather in the net?

Why ask me? What does your Bible say about it. God has dominion over the earth, therefore Jesus. He gave the earth to man as its caretakers and gave them dominion above all other creatures. We do not have dominion over spiritual beings and the invisible or as a sovereign. But your question does not even seem to relate to the conversation.

Is an earthy man from below really the image of God, or is His Son from heaven the true image of God? You seem to think the earthy is the image of God who is Spirit.

You are forgetting that man fell from his created position.

Who really possesses the image of God? An earthy man? Or the Son of God from heaven.

If man had not fallen we can surmise in a hypothetical sense, that though we would not be God and would not possess certain attributes of Him such as the omnis, and we would always be subject to Him, we would be similar to Him in likeness (and still are) we like God are a rational being; and we would live our lives according to His created order, morally upright in all our ways. In our relationships with Him and with one another and all of creation, we would be an analogy of God. So don't confuse what is, with what was created to be. Jesus came for that very reason and to do that very thing, rescue us from this fallen condition.

God is the standard by which everything in heaven and earth is judged against.

Yes.

There is ONLY ONE PERSON who can stand before God blameless and that is a Holy Son.

Jesus who is God and came as one of us to rescue us. But you are wrong. There was only one. Now there are many. For they do not come in their own righteousness but in His.

If Adam possessed any one of God's Deific Attributes, he would have to possess ALL His Deific Attributes or fall short of His glory. If Adam was created Holy then God duplicated, copied, gave, shared His Glory with dirt. But Scripture says God gives His Glory to NO ONE.

No created being every possesses deity. And why you throw that into the mix I do not know. Adam did not have to possess deity in order to be righteous. He was created righteous ---without any sin. God isn't giving His glory to anyone, His glory is visible in what He creates. Just as a perfect painting is not the painter but the painter's vision and talent are made manifest in the painting. A morning sky with orange tinted and wind feathered clouds is not God's glory. His glory is made manifest in the perfect beauty.

Adam wasn't sinless. He sinned. There was a Command in the Garden to show him he was a sinner, to give him the knowledge of his sinfulness. the eating of the Tree didn't make him a sinner when he disobeyed God. God used the Tree to give Adam the KNOWLEDGE of his sinfulness. Since Adam was not created eternal - only God is eternal - he would have died even if he didn't eat from the Tree. That's because sin is death and death is sin. There's no escaping it.

God gave a commandment to show the perfect and good man He created that He created Him a sinner? That's is stretched to shredding. Your entire quote above is so full of presuppositions and misunderstandings of scripture and of God, I am not going to rack my brain to try and sort out the muddledness involved. It would take to long and be of no effect. Suffice it to say that every bit of it is unbiblical.

Adam sinned. Sin comes from sinner. The last Adam proved this. He was sinless, He was Holy, and He did not sin. That's the result of someone who is sinless, or righteous, or holy. They DON'T sin.

Sin comes from one who is capable of sinning. He does not become a sinner until he sins. Such was the case with the first man for God is not the author of sin as you make Him out to be when you say He created a sinful being. Only now is it turned around and all Adam's progeny are sinners and that is why they sin.

 

[Arial]

So He wasn't tempted as we are. And never felt the "PRESSURES" that we feel.

He felt the same pressures. He did not choose to satisfy those pressures in ungodly ways. He was hungry and He truly needed and wanted food, and Satan brought up a way He could eat and right then. But God had not told Him to do that so no--He wasn't tempted to do it. His desire to please God was greater than His desire to eat. The exact same position we are always in. We follow our greatest desire. His desire were not towards what is sinful.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

He felt the same pressures. He did not choose to satisfy those pressures in ungodly ways. He was hungry and He truly needed and wanted food, and Satan brought up a way He could eat and right then. But God had not told Him to do that so no--He wasn't tempted to do it. His desire to please God was greater than His desire to eat. The exact same position we are always in. We follow our greatest desire. His desire were not towards what is sinful.

But you said: "They didn't temp Him", so which is it???

 

[jeremiah1five]

No. Pay attention and follow along. Our sins had to be atoned for. So did the fact that we were born in Adam and as a human have a sin nature imputed to us through him.
Jesus took the penalty that our sins deserve and that must meet God's justice, which is eternal death.

Christ either died for the acts of sin or for the sin nature. One supports the Doctrine of Imputation. The other does not.

The believer has been born again, from above. (John 3) The result of this new birth is that we are placed in Christ, born in Him, who never had a sin nature because He was not born in Adam.

That was after the Holy Spirit came. Actually, WHEN the Holy Spirit came was the atonement applied to God's chosen people Israel. Thank God their cup runneth over.

Out of Adam, into Christ. We still have our sin nature now, but when our body dies we no longer have the nature of the flesh, and at the resurrection, our body will be raised, its corruption putting on incorruption, just as Jesus was raised from the dead. In Adam our inheritance is eternal death and hell. In Christ our inheritance is eternal life in God's kingdom.

I agree.

Ps 8 speaks of humanity as a whole. Hebrews applies it to Jesus in His incarnation as one of us.

How could it speak of humanity as a whole when God's prophets were sent to Israel with a message FOR Israel.

1 O LORD our Lord,
How excellent is thy name in all the earth!
Who hast set thy glory above the heavens.
2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength
Because of thine enemies,
That thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.
3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers,
The moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;
4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him?
And the son of man, that thou visitest him?
5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels,
And hast crowned him with glory and honour.
6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands;
Thou hast put all things under his feet:
7 All sheep and oxen,
Yea, and the beasts of the field;
8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea,
And whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.
9 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!
Ps 8:1–9.

Psalm 8 says nothing about "all humanity."
But it does talk about Messiah.

Does God say in Gen. "Let us make man in our image and likeness." And then create Adam from the dust of the ground? What do you think that means?

The image of God is not earthy dirt. The image of God is Christ. Perfect, Holy, Righteous, Beautiful, and Glorious. There is distinction made between the first Adam and the second Adam. One is from below, and the image of God does not rest on the below; the other is the Lord from heaven and above. There is serious distinction.

42 So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. 43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”;[e] the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual. 47 The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall[f] also bear the image of the man of heaven
Read it. You are misapplying the scripture.

KJV: "Sown in corruption"
"Sown in dishonor."
"Sown in weakness."
This speaks of Adam's creation. "Sown" or "planted" in corruption." You read it in 1 Corinth 15, but you miss it.
God is Spirit. There is no image of God in a natural, fleshy, earthy man.
It reads: "The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven."

The image of God is the Son, the Logos. When God said "let us make man in OUR image" He was looking forward to the NEW MAN that has the Holy Spirit dwelling in that person. NOW that person is being conformed into the image of Christ, NOT Adam. We begin as natural, and in Christ we become spiritual. So, how can an earthy, fleshy, non-anointed man bear any image of God?
He/she can't. Because that's not where the image was prophesied.

No I am not. That is simply the way you are interpreting both the scripture and what I said. It was not me who said God made man in His image and likeness, it was God. So are you accusing God of doing what you just accused me of? You think that image of God is Gen regarding the creation of man means the same thing as it does when it says that Jesus is the express image of the Father, and it doesn't.

ibid.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Why ask me? What does your Bible say about it. God has dominion over the earth, therefore Jesus. He gave the earth to man as its caretakers and gave them dominion above all other creatures. We do not have dominion over spiritual beings and the invisible or as a sovereign. But your question does not even seem to relate to the conversation.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor. 2:14.

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 1 Cor. 15:43–44.

Adam, in his natural state received not the things of the Spirit of God. Definitely not His image.
The image of God is Christ.
There is no better image of a Father than a Son. We are being conformed into the image of Christ, not Adam. And that is the order:

God ---> Christ ---> spiritual man.
NOT God ---> Christ ---> natural man.

You are forgetting that man fell from his created position.

Man was created fallen short of the glory of God. That is why he sinned. Because he was a sinner and the Law/Command of "THOU SHALT NOT" proves this.
He sinned because he was created a sinner. He is not a sinner because he sinned. The Doctrine of Imputation declares a nature-swap, not an act-swap.
He takes our sin nature, and we take His Righteous nature.

If man had not fallen we can surmise in a hypothetical sense, that though we would not be God and would not possess certain attributes of Him such as the omnis, and we would always be subject to Him, we would be similar to Him in likeness (and still are) we like God are a rational being; and we would live our lives according to His created order, morally upright in all our ways. In our relationships with Him and with one another and all of creation, we would be an analogy of God. So don't confuse what is, with what was created to be. Jesus came for that very reason and to do that very thing, rescue us from this fallen condition.

There is only ONE God.
There is NONE like Him (not a sinless, or a holy, or a righteous Adam.) And if there is none like Him and He is the standard by which all things are judged, then everything - universe included - and everyone is fallen short at creation of His Glory.
There is something called the Law of Entrophy. Everything breaks down, everything decreases into chaos. That's because the universe is not eternal. Now was man when God created him. And if missing just ONE Deific Attribute of God that man is fallen short of God's standard.
If Adam had not sinned, he would have eventually died because he was not created eternal and in time he would have died.

Yes.
Jesus who is God and came as one of us to rescue us. But you are wrong. There was only one. Now there are many. For they do not come in their own righteousness but in His.
No created being every possesses deity. And why you throw that into the mix I do not know. Adam did not have to possess deity in order to be righteous. He was created righteous ---without any sin. God isn't giving His glory to anyone, His glory is visible in what He creates. Just as a perfect painting is not the painter but the painter's vision and talent are made manifest in the painting. A morning sky with orange tinted and wind feathered clouds is not God's glory. His glory is made manifest in the perfect beauty.

The ONLY Person that can stand before a Holy God is a Holy Son.
Man was created sinful, or "missing the mark" of the glory of God. The word for that is "sin."

God gave a commandment to show the perfect and good man He created that He created Him a sinner? That's is stretched to shredding. Your entire quote above is so full of presuppositions and misunderstandings of scripture and of God, I am not going to rack my brain to try and sort out the muddledness involved. It would take to long and be of no effect. Suffice it to say that every bit of it is unbiblical.
Sin comes from one who is capable of sinning.

You say it not realizing you said it.
Sin comes from sinner = "sin comes from one capable of sinning."
Same thing.
Now you're getting it.

He does not become a sinner until he sins. Such was the case with the first man for God is not the author of sin as you make Him out to be when you say He created a sinful being. Only now is it turned around and all Adam's progeny are sinners and that is why they sin.

Where did sin come from if not from within the sinner?
Riddle me that one!

 

[JIM]

It makes perfect sense. If it didn't then you can't trust your Bible or make sense of its nonsense, for it clearly states the same.

I do indeed trust the Bible. I do not trust your interpretation of the Bible. You speak of the fall as if that was something imposed upon Adam that ended up affecting us all. That is simply not the case.

Adam came into this world with a body and a spirit. His body was made of dust; his spirit was given to him by God. When he disobeyed God, he sinned and he died spiritually. In dyiing spiritually, he became separated from the source of spiritual life, namely, God Himself. It does not directly affect the physcial life of the person, even if there is an indirect effect due to the life that is being lived apart from God.

We all come into this world similarly; that is, we have a body "made of dust" (Eccl 12:7) (produced through procreation) and we have a spirit given to us by God. When we sin (disobey God), we die spiritually.

Jesus came into this world as a human being similarly; that is He had a body "made of dust" produced through procreation. The difference between Jesus and us is that in Jesus' case, the egg of His mother Mary was fertilized by the Holy Spirit rather than a physical father like us. His Spirit was the pre-incarnate Spirit He was in Heaven with God before taking on His fleshly body of a human being. He didn't sin. He didn't die spiritually as we all have.

There is so much more to be said on this topic, but I will leave it at that.

 

[JIM]

I don't mean to split hairs on this, but perhaps I need to clarify what is underlined in your statement above. That's not exactly the sense of what I wrote. The original gift of a sinless spirit given by God at the conception of each individual becomes corrupted the moment it unites and becomes identified with the fallen human elements that are "in Adam" as one of his descendants. It's the principle of representation at work, as others have mentioned above.

The reason why the power of the Holy Spirit could come upon the virgin Mary and not result in Jesus inheriting a corrupted nature is because Jesus was not the seed of Adam as His representative. He was identified as the "Seed of the woman" instead, which was not connected to a fallen, representative human father.

3 Res,

That description borders upon the essential teaching of Manichaeism. For what it is worth, Augustine of Hippo was a Christian converted from Manichaeism. Unfortunately, I think some he carried some of his Manichaeistic ideas into his Christian theology. It would seem that you, like so many others, have bitten into some of the heresy of Augustine.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I do indeed trust the Bible. I do not trust your interpretation of the Bible. You speak of the fall as if that was something imposed upon Adam that ended up affecting us all. That is simply not the case.
Adam came into this world with a body and a spirit. His body was made of dust; his spirit was given to him by God.

Hello JIM.
When you say "spirit" do you mean "soul"?

When he disobeyed God, he sinned and he died spiritually. In dyiing spiritually, he became separated from the source of spiritual life, namely, God Himself. It does not directly affect the physcial life of the person, even if there is an indirect effect due to the life that is being lived apart from God.

We all come into this world similarly; that is, we have a body "made of dust" (Eccl 12:7) (produced through procreation) and we have a spirit given to us by God. When we sin (disobey God), we die spiritually.

Jesus came into this world as a human being similarly; that is He had a body "made of dust" produced through procreation. The difference between Jesus and us is that in Jesus' case, the egg of His mother Mary was fertilized by the Holy Spirit rather than a physical father like us. His Spirit was the pre-incarnate Spirit He was in Heaven with God before taking on His fleshly body of a human being. He didn't sin. He didn't die spiritually as we all have.

There is so much more to be said on this topic, but I will leave it at that.

 

[JIM]

Hello JIM.
When you say "spirit" do you mean "soul"?

We can get into the discussion of the distinction between soul and spirit. However, for all practical purposes, when speaking of the human being, the terms spirit and soul can almost always be considered to be one and the same. They are very often used interchangeably.

 

[Arial]

The ONLY Person that can stand before a Holy God is a Holy Son.
Man was created sinful, or "missing the mark" of the glory of God. The word for that is "sin."

And yet, both Adam and Eve did stand before a Holy God. In fact God created them with His own hands, and breathed His very life into them.