A Question for the Calvinist

[prism]

This method or mode of thinking obscures the good news message of the Gospel. How? They make the Gospel another set of to do's in order to be saved.

Whenever I hear a 'do this' in order to be saved, my default challenge is "How much of the 'do' must I 'do' before I am accepted in the beloved"?

 

[Rella]

Whenever I hear a 'do this' in order to be saved, my default challenge is "How much of the 'do' must I 'do' before I am accepted in the beloved"?

Have we all not heard the scripture "And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him." ~ Heb 11:6

That is your to do list.

Believe.

Surly cannot be too onerous? While some regard this as a work, I regard it as a pleasure and a privilege.

And applies to which ever side of the coin your beliefs are. Predestined or Free Will. Without faith you just might as well go dig a hole
for yourself

 

[John Bauer]

Have we all not heard the scripture "And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him." ~ Heb 11:6

That is your to do list: Believe.

Surely cannot be too onerous? While some regard this as a work, I regard it as a pleasure and a privilege.

It is a work—but it's God work, not ours:

Then they inquired, "What must we do to carry out the work of God?"

And Jesus replied, "The work is God's[, not yours]—and it is this: your believing in the one he sent."

-- John 6:28-29 (paraphrase translating the original Greek using the subjective genitive category).

For it is God himself who is at work in you, producing both the will and the action that fulfills what pleases him.

-- Philippians 2:13 (paraphrase translating the original Greek).

What is impossible with man is possible with God (Luke 18:27)—indeed, possible only with God.

 

[makesends]

Have we all not heard the scripture "And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him." ~ Heb 11:6

That is your to do list.

Believe.

Surly cannot be too onerous? While some regard this as a work, I regard it as a pleasure and a privilege.

And applies to which ever side of the coin your beliefs are. Predestined or Free Will. Without faith you just might as well go dig a hole
for yourself

Who generates that faith? Where does it come from, and how does it come? Does our contribution complete the equation?

 

[makesends]

Oh, good. Good to know. One thing I have come to understand on the Election between Monergistic & Synergistic theologies is this. Synergistic school of thought is that God enables sinners to make a decision for their fate. Some go further saying that God chooses people who will believe apart from Grace. Both are contrary to Scripture. This method or mode of thinking obscures the good news message of the Gospel. How? They make the Gospel another set of to do's in order to be saved. Just like the false apostles were trying to do with the Galatians.

God's Election brings about our Redemption in Christ by the effective drawing of people to himself through the gifts of repentance and faith that are applied by the Holy Spirit. This is not human effort but a divine one!​

Amen! And even if it is only one 'to-do', it makes Salvation not entirely of Grace.

 

[prism]

Have we all not heard the scripture "And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him." ~ Heb 11:6

That is your to do list.

Believe.

Surly cannot be too onerous? While some regard this as a work, I regard it as a pleasure and a privilege.

And applies to which ever side of the coin your beliefs are. Predestined or Free Will. Without faith you just might as well go dig a hole
for yourself

Right, He DID, ..all my best only muddies the water of His perfect doing by adding my noble dung to His work, thus usurping the glory due His name.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Right, He DID, ..all my best only muddies the water of His perfect doing by adding my noble dung to His work, thus usurping the glory due His name.

Amen!

 

[fastfredy0]

Believe.

Surly cannot be too onerous? While some regard this as a work, I regard it as a pleasure and a privilege.

Belief for salvation is a work by definition. WORK is defined as a physical or mental activity to accomplish a purpose. The next question to answer is, who is doing (causing) this WORK of belief to occurs. John 6:29 This is the WORK of GOD that you believe.

"And without faith it is impossible to please Him

Premise 1: People are born without faith. They are yet to acquire saving faith.
Premise 2: without faith it is impossible to please God
Premise 3: A person having faith pleases God
Conclusion: A unsaved person cannot self determine his faith because they are incapable of pleasing God due to a lack of faith.

 

[Tambora]

(and I know there are plenty here)

Why can't a person facing Judgment say, "The reason I am being judged to eternal destruction is because you did not ordain/predestine me to eternal life?

I'm no Calvinist, but I would add that, according to most Calvinists, God did not love them and therefore did not give them any chance at all to have faith, belief, repentance, etc.

 

[Tambora]

if it is even A reason.

How can God claim to be a God of love? I ask this seriously.

Good question, but you won't get the correct answer from Calvinists.
God can claim it because Jacob and Esau were about nations (ie. Israel and Gentiles), not individuals.
As earlier scripture claims:

Genesis 25​

(23) And the LORD said to her, “Two nations are in your womb, and two peoples from within you shall be divided; the one shall be stronger than the other, the older shall serve the younger.”​

One of those nations (Israel) were called God's people, and the other nations (Gentiles) were not called God's people.

But as Paul explains: those that were at one time not loved and not called His people could be called His people.

Romans 9​

(25) As indeed he says in Hosea, “Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’ and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’”​

(26) “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’”​

And Paul sums up that chapter by telling how to become God's beloved people.

Romans 9​

(33) as it is written, “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense; and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”​