Christ died for them not appointed to Wrath.

[Josheb]

Meh

 

[brightfame52]

God hides His Truth from the vessels of wrath, for they are permanently lost 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

 

[brightfame52]

Christs death was for the salvation of the persons God had chosen to salvation 2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, for that God chose you [m]from the beginning unto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and [n]belief of the truth: 14 whereunto he called you through our [o]gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

These are obviously the vessels of mercy Paul wrote of in Rom 9:23,

Yet the others whom God hath appointed to wrath, the vessels of wrath wrote about in Rom 9:22 Christ death was not for. See His Death was for Salvation ! 5

 

[Josheb]

Christs death was for the salvation of the persons God had chosen to salvation 2 Thess 2:13-14

Who are you talking to? Do you realize that your posts aren't addressed to anyone. No discussion is being had, and this has turned into another thread of yours where you're the only one posted and the thread has turned into an argumentum ad nauseam?

 

[Arial]

Who are you talking to? Do you realize that your posts aren't addressed to anyone. No discussion is being had, and this has turned into another thread of yours where you're the only one posted and the thread has turned into an argumentum ad nauseam?

Otherwise known as a bandwagon.

 

[brightfame52]

Who are you talking to?

To anyone who wants to discuss what I'm posting.

 

[Josheb]

Otherwise known as a bandwagon.

With an audience of one.

To anyone who wants to discuss what I'm posting.

The only one not discussing this op is you. This op did not receive much favor. A number of posters attempted to discuss various mistakes in the op but received no actual discussion whatsoever. ALL the response to the attempts at improving your understanding were met with argumentum ad nauseam and as a consequence, everyone moved on to other thread because time and effort proved fruitless. It's a bad op, @brightfame52. Parts of it are salvageable, but much of it warrants correction. Some of the correction is probably just a matter of re-wording things but there's a faulty anthropology at the foundation of the op and a fatal failure articulating the distinctions between what's eternal and what's temporal and at which point the appointment to wrath occurs.

Post 97-103 are a preacher preaching to himself thinking someone's listening when, in fact, everyone has left because no one wants to discuss argumentum ad nauseam. They do not advance any discussion. The same thing happened HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE, and HERE. Six out of six ops ending in ad nauseam, not discussion.

 

[brightfame52]

About the Vessels of Wrath Rom 9:22

In a similar way vessels of wrath are vessels that are conceived in God's wrath and designed to be the bearers of the righteous indignation of the Most High forever.

This interpretation is corroborated first of all by the fact that in the text vessels of wrath are the very opposite of vessels of mercy; and the latter phrase signifies not merely men that are historically the objects of the mercy, the saving mercy, of God, but men that are ordained in mercy from eternity. The parallel expression, vessels of wrath, must, therefore, be interpreted in a similar fashion. It refers to men whom God has sovereignly known in wrath and whom in His wrath He shapes into vessels unto dishonor in time. And secondly, that this is indeed the correct interpretation is also clear from what is added to the description of these vessels of wrath in the text. They are vessels of wrath fitted unto destruction. The meaning of this latter addition is plain. It signifies: to be so constituted that the end must necessarily be destruction. The vessels of wrath are so constituted that their entire makeup and design and institution serves the purpose of reaching that end of destruction. If we abandon the figure of the vessel, the meaning is that there are men so instituted as to their personality, their power and talents, their position in the world, and their place in the whole of the works of God, that everything tends to their destruction, serves the purpose of leading them not to temporal destruction, but to eternal desolation. Unto this they are fitted. And the question arises naturally: fitted unto destruction by whom? Of course, also here the Arminian is bound to say that men fit themselves unto destruction. That God is sovereign also in the determination of the destruction of the wicked, that, although it remains true that the wicked deliberately seeks his own destruction and walks in the way into eternal desolation, this end is nevertheless sovereignly determined by God, so that there is no accident, the Arminian does not understand and does not want to admit. Everything depends on, is contingent upon the determination of the will of man, according to him. But this explanation is so wholly contrary to the entire context, that I need waste no words to expose its fallacy. If we really desire to submit to the Word of God, if we do not sinfully distort the plain meaning of the words of Scripture, the meaning which the text yields can only be that God fitted these vessels unto destruction. And well may the people of God rejoice in this truth, for it means that all the Pharaohs and all the Nebuchadnezzars and all the Neroes and all Hitlers and Stalins, all the destroyers on the earth, and all the persecutors of the Church, all the haters of Christ and His cause and His people in the world, are absolutely under the control and in the hand of God's sovereign power. According to Arminianism, it is the will of the wicked that rules and that determines the history of the world. According to Scripture, however, the wicked is but the ax with which God hews and the saw which He draws. We are absolutely safe; according to God's eternal thoughts and counsel, all the wicked of the earth are so instituted that they but tend to destruction. Fitted unto destruction they are in God's eternal wrath; for Esau hath He hated.

Predestination: The Heart of the Gospel 9 God's Sovereign Dealings

 

[Josheb]

About the Vessels of Wrath Rom 9:22

In a similar way vessels of wrath are vessels that are conceived in God's wrath and designed to be the bearers of the righteous indignation of the Most High forever.

This interpretation is corroborated first of all by the fact that in the text vessels of wrath are the very opposite of vessels of mercy; and the latter phrase signifies not merely men that are historically the objects of the mercy, the saving mercy, of God, but men that are ordained in mercy from eternity. The parallel expression, vessels of wrath, must, therefore, be interpreted in a similar fashion. It refers to men whom God has sovereignly known in wrath and whom in His wrath He shapes into vessels unto dishonor in time. And secondly, that this is indeed the correct interpretation is also clear from what is added to the description of these vessels of wrath in the text. They are vessels of wrath fitted unto destruction. The meaning of this latter addition is plain. It signifies: to be so constituted that the end must necessarily be destruction. The vessels of wrath are so constituted that their entire makeup and design and institution serves the purpose of reaching that end of destruction. If we abandon the figure of the vessel, the meaning is that there are men so instituted as to their personality, their power and talents, their position in the world, and their place in the whole of the works of God, that everything tends to their destruction, serves the purpose of leading them not to temporal destruction, but to eternal desolation. Unto this they are fitted. And the question arises naturally: fitted unto destruction by whom? Of course, also here the Arminian is bound to say that men fit themselves unto destruction. That God is sovereign also in the determination of the destruction of the wicked, that, although it remains true that the wicked deliberately seeks his own destruction and walks in the way into eternal desolation, this end is nevertheless sovereignly determined by God, so that there is no accident, the Arminian does not understand and does not want to admit. Everything depends on, is contingent upon the determination of the will of man, according to him. But this explanation is so wholly contrary to the entire context, that I need waste no words to expose its fallacy. If we really desire to submit to the Word of God, if we do not sinfully distort the plain meaning of the words of Scripture, the meaning which the text yields can only be that God fitted these vessels unto destruction. And well may the people of God rejoice in this truth, for it means that all the Pharaohs and all the Nebuchadnezzars and all the Neroes and all Hitlers and Stalins, all the destroyers on the earth, and all the persecutors of the Church, all the haters of Christ and His cause and His people in the world, are absolutely under the control and in the hand of God's sovereign power. According to Arminianism, it is the will of the wicked that rules and that determines the history of the world. According to Scripture, however, the wicked is but the ax with which God hews and the saw which He draws. We are absolutely safe; according to God's eternal thoughts and counsel, all the wicked of the earth are so instituted that they but tend to destruction. Fitted unto destruction they are in God's eternal wrath; for Esau hath He hated.

Predestination: The Heart of the Gospel 9 God's Sovereign Dealings

Argumentum ad nauseam