A Question for the Calvinist

[Ladodgers6]

Christ fulfilled the Law in being the sacrifice which atones for sin.

We were redeemed from the curse of the law by his sacrifice, which was the penalty of the law for disobedience.

We received his imputed righteousness when we
believed, which resulted in
remission of sin, which resulted in
justification (declaration of "not guilty," sentence of acquittal, pronouncement of sinlessness), which resulted in
imputation of Christ's righteousness.

Yes, I agree with all of what you stated. But why do we need Christ's righteousness?

 

[Eleanor]

Yes, I agree with all of what you statement. But why do we need Christ's righteousness?

Because we have none of our own.

Do you not know that God does not fellowship with the unrighteous, they are separated from him.

 

[Eleanor]

It doesnt have to be applied, it was accepted of God. Jesus death was applied b4 the throne of Gods Justice, He accepted it, and that cleared them. Now they dont know it yet, thats when Faith comes in, it applies to the mind and heart that which is Truth and real in Gods courtroom because of Christ. Faith believes what is True in heaven b4 God outside of ourselves.

You are intermingling the eternal order with the temporal order.

 

[brightfame52]

You are intermingling the eternal order with the temporal order.

False, Jesus died in time.

 

[makesends]

False, Jesus died in time.

Yes, died in time from before the foundation of the world.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, died in time from before the foundation of the world.

No, He died historically in 33 ad, way b4 you and I were born. Now the blood that Justifies b4 God was literally b4 Him literally when Jesus ascended into heaven with it Heb 9 12

Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

 

[makesends]

No, He died historically in 33 ad, way b4 you and I were born. Now the blood that Justifies b4 God was literally b4 Him literally when Jesus ascended into heaven with it Heb 9 12

Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Yes, exactly. "He died historically in 33 ad, way b4 you and I were born. Now the blood that Justifies b4 God was literally b4 Him literally when Jesus ascended into heaven with it Heb 9 12" So why are we not saved at that point, since, as you say, we are justified at that point in time? —In fact, why do we need to repent? Why do we need to be born again? After all, was not all that accomplished at the cross?

"Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us."

 

[brightfame52]

@makesends

In fact, why do we need to repent?

Really ? When we by Faith receive Justification b4 God by the blood of Christ, we have a change of mind in trying to be Justified by our works, our religion etc, its then we rest in what Christ has done for us

 

[Ladodgers6]

Because we have none of our own.

Thank you. But we need works to be justified before God. Since we cannot do it ourselves because we have fallen in the first Adam, and condemned because of His acts of disobedience. We are saved by the works/obedience of the Second Adam. So, in essence Eleanor we are saved by Christ's works. Without the Law-keeping of Christ nobody would be saved. And nobody can enter heaven without perfect obedience.

So, what I was saying before, is that the synergistic theologies among others (Pelagian/Semi-Pelagians); any works based systems that place this endeavor on fallen humanity either forgot, don't see, don't understand or blatantly disregard Scripture that fallen man/women cannot fulfill the Law with perfect obedience that it demands because we are cursed under the Law to keep it; we cannot.

But perfect obedience is still demanded/commanded by God to enter heaven. The only we can be redeemed from the curse of the Law is by Christ becoming a curse for us; taking our place; taking our penalty, proving himself as a sacrifice, and by proving us the perfect righteousness that we need to stand before God, justified!

This is the active/passive obedience of Christ. The Marvelous Double Imputation.​

Do you not know that God does not fellowship with the unrighteous, they are separated from him.

Okay, this is off target. I want to stay on target.

 

[makesends]

@makesends



Really ? When we by Faith receive Justification b4 God by the blood of Christ, we have a change of mind in trying to be Justified by our works, our religion etc, its then we rest in what Christ has done for us

If we are already justified, ever since the cross, as you said, we are already forgiven. Both are accomplished at the cross. Likewise all the other things that come with justification and forgiveness. Why not also all the other virtues coincident with salvation?

 

[Ladodgers6]

If we are already justified, ever since the cross, as you said, we are already forgiven. Both are accomplished at the cross. Likewise all the other things that come with justification and forgiveness. Why not also all the other virtues coincident with salvation?

Hallelujah, the good news is that we receive Christ and all of His heavenly blessings. Which also includes sanctification. In others words Christ finished everything at the Cross. "It is Finished"!

Now good deeds or works of the believers are fruits because we are saved in Christ. And even these are produced because of Christ. Salvation and Redemption of sinners is God's doing, all of it. Justification by Faith in Christ produces naturally good works, as a apple trees naturally produces apples. But this is by the Holy Spirit renewing and transforming us into the image of God's Son.​

 

[brightfame52]

@makesends

If we are already justified, ever since the cross, as you said, we are already forgiven.

Correct by the blood of Christ ! Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

. Why not also all the other virtues coincident with salvation?

The other spiritual blessings will eventually come, but forgiveness and redemption, Justification are legal blessings b4 the court of Justice, other spiritual blessings require our existence, like the New birth, Faith etc

In fact its because those legal blessings having already, God supplies the Spiritual Blessings, like Spiritual life in the New Birth, Faith and repentance.

 

[makesends]

@makesends


Correct by the blood of Christ ! Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


The other spiritual blessings will eventually come, but forgiveness and redemption, Justification are legal blessings b4 the court of Justice, other spiritual blessings require our existence, like the New birth, Faith etc

In fact its because those legal blessings having already, God supplies the Spiritual Blessings, like Spiritual life in the New Birth, Faith and repentance.

Granted, I'm not hearing something you intend with this. I'm trying to find it, besides just the bare statement that justification (and now, forgiveness) is accomplished at the cross, and therefore we are justified even before birth and before regeneration. My question, which you don't seem to hear, is that there are also several other things that occurred at the cross, concurrently with justification. Our sins removed, we were also saved at the cross, purified, cleansed (according to 1 John 1:9). Why don't you include salvation in your assertion? His blood accomplished it all. So of what salvific purpose is faith, since we were saved at the cross?

 

[makesends]

@makesends


Correct by the blood of Christ ! Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


The other spiritual blessings will eventually come, but forgiveness and redemption, Justification are legal blessings b4 the court of Justice, other spiritual blessings require our existence, like the New birth, Faith etc

In fact its because those legal blessings having already, God supplies the Spiritual Blessings, like Spiritual life in the New Birth, Faith and repentance.

what about salvation?

 

[Ladodgers6]

@makesends


Correct by the blood of Christ ! Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


The other spiritual blessings will eventually come, but forgiveness and redemption, Justification are legal blessings b4 the court of Justice, other spiritual blessings require our existence, like the New birth, Faith etc

Well brightfame, everything we have comes from God, which also includes New Birth, Faith, Sanctification. The believing sinner receive all of Christ and everything he possesses becomes ours. The good news is good news for the ungodly. Christ is not a piece meal where only a part of Christ received.

 

[brightfame52]

Granted, I'm not hearing something you intend with this. I'm trying to find it, besides just the bare statement that justification (and now, forgiveness) is accomplished at the cross, and therefore we are justified even before birth and before regeneration. My question, which you don't seem to hear, is that there are also several other things that occurred at the cross, concurrently with justification. Our sins removed, we were also saved at the cross, purified, cleansed (according to 1 John 1:9). Why don't you include salvation in your assertion? His blood accomplished it all. So of what salvific purpose is faith, since we were saved at the cross?

Already elaborated you need to read over my post or just let it go

 

[brightfame52]

what about salvation?

Already elaborated

 

[brightfame52]

Well brightfame, everything we have comes from God, which also includes New Birth, Faith, Sanctification. The believing sinner receive all of Christ and everything he possesses becomes ours. The good news is good news for the ungodly. Christ is not a piece meal where only a part of Christ received.

You way off kilter

 

[David Lamb]

Well brightfame, everything we have comes from God, which also includes New Birth, Faith, Sanctification. The believing sinner receive all of Christ and everything he possesses becomes ours. The good news is good news for the ungodly. Christ is not a piece meal where only a part of Christ received.

Mostly true, but I would be careful about saying that everything Christ possesses becomes ours. There are things which are true of Christ, but not of the saved sinner. For instance, He possesses equality with His heavenly Father, and we don't.

 

[brightfame52]

@Ladodgers6

Well brightfame, everything we have comes from God, which also includes New Birth, Faith, Sanctification.

And those things will in Gods time be applied to the Justified ungodly sinner whom Christ has died for, Christ earned them blessings for them, and He ensures they partake of them as He is the Mediator of the New Covenant. I have repeatedly said these things b4 in some fashion.