A different view of Daniels 70 weeks

[Marilyn C]

Then why wouldn’t it say that just like it did in the very previous verse about when he comes?

In Dan. 9: 25 it lays out the two times - 7 x 7 and 62 x 7, then it goes on to elaborate on those two times.

Hope that is helpful.

 

[Marty]

In Dan. 9: 25 it lays out the two times - 7 x 7 and 62 x 7, then it goes on to elaborate on those two times.

Hope that is helpful.

Yes of course there’s two different times I have repeatedly told you that that‘s my whole point I can’t understand why you don’t understand what I am saying? It’s simple math

One time frame 7-7’s and 62-7’s he comes

Second time frame 62-7’s he is put to death

So how does he come 7-7’s after he is put to death?

He can’t if it’s one anointed one thus there has to be two anointed ones

 

[armylngst]

Yes the destruction of the temple happened in 70AD

Also how could Jesus come 49 years after He was cutoff?

Daniel 9
25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,[f]the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing

Um, you misunderstand the prophecy. There will be seven 'sevens', so 49 years. And then 62 'sevens' 434 years after which the Messiah is cut off. Daniel split the 69 weeks into seven, and then 62, and after that 62 is complete, the Messiah is cutoff. You have to read the prophecy properly.

 

[Marty]

Um, you misunderstand the prophecy. There will be seven 'sevens', so 49 years. And then 62 'sevens' 434 years after which the Messiah is cut off. Daniel split the 69 weeks into seven, and then 62, and after that 62 is complete, the Messiah is cutoff. You have to read the prophecy properly.

Read the verse again it clearly says

25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,[f]the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’

He comes after seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens

26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing

He is cut off after sixty-two ‘sevens,

Thus how could he come seven sevens, after he is cut off if its one person?

 

[armylngst]

Read the verse again it clearly says

25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,[f]the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’

Yes. It is very clear. There will be seven 'sevens' followed by 62 'sevens'. Very clear. Grammar is very important. The order in which Daniel wrote is important, or you make all kinds of mistakes, like the one you make below.

He comes after seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens

If you add that up, that is 69 sevens. Also, there is no reason to believe that this speaks of birth.

26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing

Yes. After the sixty-two 'sevens'... Notice the descriptor. Go back to the main verse that says "there will be seven 'seven's, and sixty-two 'sevens'." So first there will be seven 'sevens', and then there will be an additional 62 'sevens'. The word THE tells us that Daniel is saying that it isn't after seven 'sevens', it isn't after 62 'sevens' that he hasn't talked about yet. It is after THE 62 'sevens' that followed after seven 'sevens'.

He is cut off after sixty-two ‘sevens,

No. He is cut off after THE sixty-two 'sevens'. You know, THE 62 'sevens' that followed seven 'sevens'.

Thus how could he come seven sevens, after he is cut off if its one person

This is what happens when you don't follow the grammar. He came after seven 'sevens' AND 62 'sevens'. That makes 69 'sevens'. As the coming of the anointed one can mean when Jesus started His ministry, "the coming of the anointed one", His death would occur during the 69th week. Outside of spiritualizing the text and changing it altogether, the prince that follows is NOT Jesus.

 

[Reformedguy]

Partial Preterist?

I am as well although I would call myself a Orthodox Preterist.

 

[EarlyActs]

I am as well although I would call myself a Orthodox Preterist.

Full preterism typically means to think that 70 AD was also the 2nd coming. If you believe there was a delay once the DofJ happened, then you are partial.

 

[EarlyActs]

Yes of course there’s two different times I have repeatedly told you that that‘s my whole point I can’t understand why you don’t understand what I am saying? It’s simple math

One time frame 7-7’s and 62-7’s he comes

Second time frame 62-7’s he is put to death

So how does he come 7-7’s after he is put to death?

He can’t if it’s one anointed one thus there has to be two anointed ones

He doesn't come after the 7 7s. He comes after 69 7s. I have only found one reference as to why the unit is already split. It seems to be Levitical, that is, indicating that it is way overdue because it should have happened at 7. So it is a literary device to emphasize how necessary this is. Compare Peter re forgiveness: forgive 7x? Jesus: no 70x7.

 

[EarlyActs]

This is a different than most views of Daniels 70 weeks. Most people put Daniels 70th week in the future and call it the time of Jacobs trouble or the great chain but the time table below shows a different interpretation which matches history. Remember there are no coincidences in the bible.

The vision of the angle Gabriel and the prophecy of the 70 weeks were an answer to Daniels prayer in Daniel 9:4-19. Daniels is praying to God and asking for mercy as he knew that the prophet Jeremiah had prophesied that the captivity would last for 70 years. The law of Moses states that they need to repent and turn back to God but the 70 years was almost up and the Jews were still not repenting. We see in the verses below that Daniel is pleading to God for mercy.

Daniel 9:17-19
17 “Now, our God, hear the prayers and petitions of your servant. For your sake, Lord, look with favor on your desolate sanctuary. 18 Give ear, our God, and hear; open your eyes and see the desolation of the city that bears your Name. We do not make requests of you because we are righteous, but because of your great mercy. 19 Lord, listen! Lord, forgive! Lord, hear and act! For your sake, my God, do not delay, because your city and your people bear your Name.”

The prophecy given by the angel Gabriel

Daniel 9:24-27
24 “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place. 25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

The 70 years would become 70 weeks of foreign control. The Jews would go back and rebuild Jerusalem but not as free people but under foreign control.


The 70 weeks are 490 years of prophecy.

The command by the angel Gabriel is to know and understand the prophecy. The decree (the word to go and rebuild Jerusalem) would trigger the understanding of the time line of the vision. Thus the decree of king Cyrus is the key to know and understand the 70 weeks. The decree of king Cyrus gives us a concrete date and point in time of the 70 weeks.

Below are the time lines of each set of weeks

605 B.C. The start of the 70 weeks Daniel and the Jews are taken into captivity. (time goes backwards from the time of Daniel vision)

587 B.C. Jerusalem is destroyed by Babylon the start of the 7 weeks (runs parallel to some of the 62 weeks)

170/1 B.C. Onias 3rd is murdered (cut off and has nothing) the second anointed one the last of the Zadokite priesthood which was the start of the 70th week.

538 B.C. King Cyrus issues a decree to go and rebuild Jerusalem and Joshua (the first anointed one who was to come) goes back to rebuild Jerusalem. This is the end of the 7 weeks which was 49 years after 587 B.C. when Jerusalem was destroyed.


167 B.C. Antiochus Epiphanies 4th desecrates the temple ½ way through the 70th week. The abomination that caused desolation.

164/3 B.C. Antiochus Epiphanies 4th dies and the temple sacrifice is reestablished the end of the 70th week. (the end is poured out on him)

War continued during and until the end of the 70th week

The purposes of the 70 weeks in Daniel 9:24 were fulfilled by the Jews who remained loyal to God and resisted apostasy.

605 B.C.-171 B.C. 62 weeks or 434 years

587 B.C.-538 B.C. 7 weeks or 49 years

170/1 B.C.-164/3 B.C. 70th week or 7 years

Some versions of the bible use the word Messiah instead of the anointed one but that was a mistake and not the original meaning.

Below are three main points to show that Jesus wasn't any part of the prophecy of the 70 weeks


1-Some people think that the 70 weeks start in 445 BC, but this is 160 years after 605 B.C. when the Jews were taken into captivity. If this was the case then the curse of the covenant would not come into effect on those who did not repent-in 535 B.C. when Jeremiah's 70 years prophecy expired. Instead it would come their grandchildren and great grandchildren which would violate the principal of the Law of Moses that children pay the price for their parents and grandparents sins.


2-It says that the anointed one will come after 62 & 7 weeks but he is cut off after 62 weeks. How can the anointed one if it is one person come 49 years after he is cut off? This proves that it is two different people. If it is Jesus how could He come 49 years after he dies?


3-Not once in the bible did Jesus or any of the new testament writers ever claim that Jesus fulfilled any parts of the 70 weeks. This would not be missed and if it was Jesus it would prove who Jesus is to the Jews Especially in the book of Matthew. Thus Jesus is not either of the anointed ones in the prophecy of the 70 weeks.

This time line takes away the possibility of a future 70th week or even a future seven year tribulation.

I have no idea where you got your 3rd item. My 24 is very clearly 1st cent. Judean. It echoes Mt 10 many times! And easily shown about events there. Until v29, which matches the broad-based NT expectation that the end of the world was “right after.”

 

[armylngst]

I have no idea where you got your 3rd item. My 24 is very clearly 1st cent. Judean. It echoes Mt 10 many times! And easily shown about events there. Until v29, which matches the broad-based NT expectation that the end of the world was “right after.”

That's the problem, it isn't all 1st century. Only part of it is 1st century. The other part is very clearly set in the future.

 

[EarlyActs]

But not a problem if you accept a delay.

At the time they thought the final day of judgement was right after. Rom. 2

After the time went by they understood God had delayed, as indicated by :
Mt 24: only the Father knows
Mk 13: four possible times of return
2 Pet 3: Specifically written to answer this very question. Delay simply means grace extended.

I think most people would say the ‘right after’ was a problem until they realized there has been a delay

 

[EarlyActs]

I prefer to reconstruct what they thought first and as it happened , and then go on to a ‘system’

 

[Marty]

I have no idea where you got your 3rd item. My 24 is very clearly 1st cent. Judean. It echoes Mt 10 many times! And easily shown about events there. Until v29, which matches the broad-based NT expectation that the end of the world was “right after.”

Sorry but I’m not quite sure what you mean?

When did any New Testament writers or even Jesus claim that He fulfilled any of the 70 weeks?

The gospels especially Matthew specifically show when Jesus fulfilled any Old Testament prophecies for example

Matthew 2:23
23 and he went and lived in a town called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was said through the prophets, that he would be called a Nazarene.

Jesus wasn’t talking about the end of the world in verse 29 it was the symbolic description of judgment and the end of the temple and sacrificial age

 

[EarlyActs]

He identified the AofD in the temple as part of the turmoil of the whole picture, and that believers should escape. The events out to v29 are about their generation and Judea, or what affects Judea. That is the only official NT interp of Dan 9 .

 

[EarlyActs]

Sorry but I’m not quite sure what you mean?

When did any New Testament writers or even Jesus claim that He fulfilled any of the 70 weeks?

The gospels especially Matthew specifically show when Jesus fulfilled any Old Testament prophecies for example

Matthew 2:23
23 and he went and lived in a town called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was said through the prophets, that he would be called a Nazarene.

Jesus wasn’t talking about the end of the world in verse 29 it was the symbolic description of judgment and the end of the temple and sacrificial age

You are right about symbols but notice the sudden world-wide scope.

 

[armylngst]

Sorry but I’m not quite sure what you mean?

When did any New Testament writers or even Jesus claim that He fulfilled any of the 70 weeks?

The gospels especially Matthew specifically show when Jesus fulfilled any Old Testament prophecies for example

Matthew 2:23
23 and he went and lived in a town called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was said through the prophets, that he would be called a Nazarene.

Jesus wasn’t talking about the end of the world in verse 29 it was the symbolic description of judgment and the end of the temple and sacrificial age

You have to take in the context. I'm not sure how many have said that the context lends reason to interpretation.

"29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from [q]the sky, and the powers of [r]the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His [s]elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the [t]other."

Given the whole context, this has to be speaking about the end of the world, and the physical return of Christ. Jesus was clear when He started the whole discourse by saying "Truly, I say unto you". Was He speaking truly, or was it all a riddle?

 

[Marty]

You have to take in the context. I'm not sure how many have said that the context lends reason to interpretation.

"29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from [q]the sky, and the powers of [r]the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His [s]elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the [t]other."

Given the whole context, this has to be speaking about the end of the world, and the physical return of Christ. Jesus was clear when He started the whole discourse by saying "Truly, I say unto you". Was He speaking truly, or was it all a riddle?

The context is the destruction of the temple. Thus it is the end of the temple and sacrificial age.

The signs in the sun, moon and stars are symbolic signs of judgement and destruction. Peter in acts chapter 2 confirms this when he quoted Joel with the same symbolic signs and said that "these are the days Joel mentioned" . The tribes of the world are the scattered tribes of Israel. The elect gathered were the Christian Jews who heeded Jesus warning and fled the city before Rome destroyed it.

 

[EarlyActs]

As Martyn Lloyd-Jones preached their bringing in again, acceptance, receiving again will be like life from the dead, Romans 11:15. That is how significant the bringing in again, or acceptance shall be. And he was no Dispensationalist, but taught by exegesis.

Even early Luther thought there might be another evangelistic effort by Jews, but saw no ‘events’ in Judea connected to that. He knew that Paul was trying to entice them in Rom 11 with such visions of accomplishment, yet was realistic enough to say only a few would. See ‘some’ in v14.

 

[armylngst]

Even early Luther thought there might be another evangelistic effort by Jews, but saw no ‘events’ in Judea connected to that. He knew that Paul was trying to entice them in Rom 11 with such visions of accomplishment, yet was realistic enough to say only a few would. See ‘some’ in v14.

If you read Romans, Paul is saying that God has not rejected GROUPS, but that the acceptance/rejection is on the individual. Hence, God has not rejected Israel because Paul, an individual of Israel, has not been rejected. There is no reason to conflate individuals with the group. The branches (natural and foreign) refer to individuals, not groups. Hence one doesn't go to heaven by being a part of a specific church, one is judged on their own individual self. Israel remains before God, however, only some (the remnant) will be saved.

 

[EarlyActs]

If you read Romans, Paul is saying that God has not rejected GROUPS, but that the acceptance/rejection is on the individual. Hence, God has not rejected Israel because Paul, an individual of Israel, has not been rejected. There is no reason to conflate individuals with the group. The branches (natural and foreign) refer to individuals, not groups. Hence one doesn't go to heaven by being a part of a specific church, one is judged on their own individual self. Israel remains before God, however, only some (the remnant) will be saved.

Right and yet he used the general term and then said they were partly blinded. Providing the exception you want .

The “all Israel” is another item with points to check:
1, was he speaking of the other one , like in 9:6, where one has faith?
2, All? All through time? All the race all through time?
3, comparing back to above, if the race-nation goes on through time partly blinded, all cannot be the race-nation - it must be the faith-ing Jews.