A different view of Daniels 70 weeks

[armylngst]

Right and yet he used the general term and then said they were partly blinded. Providing the exception you want .

The “all Israel” is another item with points to check:
1, was he speaking of the other one , like in 9:6, where one has faith?
2, All? All through time? All the race all through time?
3, comparing back to above, if the race-nation goes on through time partly blinded, all cannot be the race-nation - it must be the faith-ing Jews.

All Israel means exactly that. However, there are limitations that can be (are) imposed. It can mean ALL ISRAEL as in every Jew who has existed from the beginning of time, or it can mean all who are alive at the time Paul is writing about. I go with that, and I believe that the only one's of Israel who will be alive at the time are the remnant, the elect of Israel, and they will all be saved. Also, with the natural branches in Romans 11, it wasn't about faith, it was about belief. For the Gentiles it is about faith.

 

[EarlyActs]

He was not talking about a specific future. The quote from Isaiah shows that. The present consists of sins taken away by Christ the redeemer of Zion and of the new covenant about that.

I await the difference between faith and belief. Can’t believe you said that.

 

[armylngst]

He was not talking about a specific future. The quote from Isaiah shows that. The present consists of sins taken away by Christ the redeemer of Zion and of the new covenant about that.

I await the difference between faith and belief. Can’t believe you said that.

A collegiate level quote for you to consider. "Faith involves reliance and trust, and it endures in the face of doubts, whereas belief is simply something we take to be true."

 

[EarlyActs]

A collegiate level quote for you to consider. "Faith involves reliance and trust, and it endures in the face of doubts, whereas belief is simply something we take to be true."

But both are ‘pistuo’. I’m not aware of any other NT Greek terms in usage. The object being relied upon is the righteousness of Christ for us (ROM, Gal, Phil 3). This is critical when in reference to Israel, as ROM 4, 9, 10 say.

 

[EarlyActs]

If you read Romans, Paul is saying that God has not rejected GROUPS, but that the acceptance/rejection is on the individual. Hence, God has not rejected Israel because Paul, an individual of Israel, has not been rejected. There is no reason to conflate individuals with the group. The branches (natural and foreign) refer to individuals, not groups. Hence one doesn't go to heaven by being a part of a specific church, one is judged on their own individual self. Israel remains before God, however, only some (the remnant) will be saved.

I looked again at this and forgot to say: he wasn’t about groups all along; the Seed was for all nations.

 

[EarlyActs]

All Israel means exactly that. However, there are limitations that can be (are) imposed. It can mean ALL ISRAEL as in every Jew who has existed from the beginning of time, or it can mean all who are alive at the time Paul is writing about. I go with that, and I believe that the only one's of Israel who will be alive at the time are the remnant, the elect of Israel, and they will all be saved. Also, with the natural branches in Romans 11, it wasn't about faith, it was about belief. For the Gentiles it is about faith.

I was sent here for a new post but don’t see one.

It’s the other Israel of 9:6 so it is all those who have faith

 

[EarlyActs]

A collegiate level quote for you to consider. "Faith involves reliance and trust, and it endures in the face of doubts, whereas belief is simply something we take to be true."

There is no difference.

 

[EarlyActs]

This is a different than most views of Daniels 70 weeks. Most people put Daniels 70th week in the future and call it the time of Jacobs trouble or the great chain but the time table below shows a different interpretation which matches history. Remember there are no coincidences in the bible.

The vision of the angle Gabriel and the prophecy of the 70 weeks were an answer to Daniels prayer in Daniel 9:4-19. Daniels is praying to God and asking for mercy as he knew that the prophet Jeremiah had prophesied that the captivity would last for 70 years. The law of Moses states that they need to repent and turn back to God but the 70 years was almost up and the Jews were still not repenting. We see in the verses below that Daniel is pleading to God for mercy.

Daniel 9:17-19
17 “Now, our God, hear the prayers and petitions of your servant. For your sake, Lord, look with favor on your desolate sanctuary. 18 Give ear, our God, and hear; open your eyes and see the desolation of the city that bears your Name. We do not make requests of you because we are righteous, but because of your great mercy. 19 Lord, listen! Lord, forgive! Lord, hear and act! For your sake, my God, do not delay, because your city and your people bear your Name.”

The prophecy given by the angel Gabriel

Daniel 9:24-27
24 “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place. 25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

The 70 years would become 70 weeks of foreign control. The Jews would go back and rebuild Jerusalem but not as free people but under foreign control.


The 70 weeks are 490 years of prophecy.

The command by the angel Gabriel is to know and understand the prophecy. The decree (the word to go and rebuild Jerusalem) would trigger the understanding of the time line of the vision. Thus the decree of king Cyrus is the key to know and understand the 70 weeks. The decree of king Cyrus gives us a concrete date and point in time of the 70 weeks.

Below are the time lines of each set of weeks

605 B.C. The start of the 70 weeks Daniel and the Jews are taken into captivity. (time goes backwards from the time of Daniel vision)

587 B.C. Jerusalem is destroyed by Babylon the start of the 7 weeks (runs parallel to some of the 62 weeks)

170/1 B.C. Onias 3rd is murdered (cut off and has nothing) the second anointed one the last of the Zadokite priesthood which was the start of the 70th week.

538 B.C. King Cyrus issues a decree to go and rebuild Jerusalem and Joshua (the first anointed one who was to come) goes back to rebuild Jerusalem. This is the end of the 7 weeks which was 49 years after 587 B.C. when Jerusalem was destroyed.


167 B.C. Antiochus Epiphanies 4th desecrates the temple ½ way through the 70th week. The abomination that caused desolation.

164/3 B.C. Antiochus Epiphanies 4th dies and the temple sacrifice is reestablished the end of the 70th week. (the end is poured out on him)

War continued during and until the end of the 70th week

The purposes of the 70 weeks in Daniel 9:24 were fulfilled by the Jews who remained loyal to God and resisted apostasy.

605 B.C.-171 B.C. 62 weeks or 434 years

587 B.C.-538 B.C. 7 weeks or 49 years

170/1 B.C.-164/3 B.C. 70th week or 7 years

Some versions of the bible use the word Messiah instead of the anointed one but that was a mistake and not the original meaning.

Below are three main points to show that Jesus wasn't any part of the prophecy of the 70 weeks


1-Some people think that the 70 weeks start in 445 BC, but this is 160 years after 605 B.C. when the Jews were taken into captivity. If this was the case then the curse of the covenant would not come into effect on those who did not repent-in 535 B.C. when Jeremiah's 70 years prophecy expired. Instead it would come their grandchildren and great grandchildren which would violate the principal of the Law of Moses that children pay the price for their parents and grandparents sins.


2-It says that the anointed one will come after 62 & 7 weeks but he is cut off after 62 weeks. How can the anointed one if it is one person come 49 years after he is cut off? This proves that it is two different people. If it is Jesus how could He come 49 years after he dies?


3-Not once in the bible did Jesus or any of the new testament writers ever claim that Jesus fulfilled any parts of the 70 weeks. This would not be missed and if it was Jesus it would prove who Jesus is to the Jews Especially in the book of Matthew. Thus Jesus is not either of the anointed ones in the prophecy of the 70 weeks.

This time line takes away the possibility of a future 70th week or even a future seven year tribulation.

The problem is Jesus said the AofD would be a person in his generation.

 

[Marty]

The problem is Jesus said the AofD would be a person in his generation.

Actually what I believe He says is that what happened in His past would happen again in His soon future but this time no one would save them.

My three points at the bottom of the OP prove the truth

 

[EarlyActs]

Actually what I believe He says is that what happened in His past would happen again in His soon future but this time no one would save them.

My three points at the bottom of the OP prove the truth

Why would a pagan's desecration of the temple be Israel's fault? (I assume you mean Antiochus in Jesus' past). The generation of Jesus was to have changed entirely from their past (even their post-exile, 400 "silent" years past) and followed the Gospel of the New Moses, Acts 3.

 

[Marty]

Why would a pagan's desecration of the temple be Israel's fault? (I assume you mean Antiochus in Jesus' past). The generation of Jesus was to have changed entirely from their past (even their post-exile, 400 "silent" years past) and followed the Gospel of the New Moses, Acts 3.

All I was saying is that the temple was desecrated in Jesus past and that would happen again

 

[EarlyActs]

All I was saying is that the temple was desecrated in Jesus past and that would happen again

Well there is a twist in the thing being described by Jesus; it is actually the after-rejection by Israel that brings it about. Yes, pagans were there, but the zealot rebels were there before that, triggering that.

 

[Marty]

Well there is a twist in the thing being described by Jesus; it is actually the after-rejection by Israel that brings it about. Yes, pagans were there, but the zealot rebels were there before that, triggering that.

Well ask yourself why did the angel come to Daniel?

Why was Daniel praying In the first part of Daniel chapter 9?

 

[EarlyActs]

Well ask yourself why did the angel come to Daniel?

Why was Daniel praying In the first part of Daniel chapter 9?

For atonement. He found out it was not going to be suffering by Israel, but Christ, that would resolve that. The race-nation would be ruined. He rather thought that Israel would gain a blessed age by that Anointed One.

 

[Marty]

For atonement. He found out it was not going to be suffering by Israel, but Christ, that would resolve that. The race-nation would be ruined. He rather thought that Israel would gain a blessed age by that Anointed One.

No not quite Daniel was pleading for mercy not atonement reread the whole of Daniel chapter 9

 

[EarlyActs]

No not quite Daniel was pleading for mercy not atonement reread the whole of Daniel chapter 9

Why does that matter if righteousness and atonement through Messiah were going to come as the answer to the prayer? Mercy from God is indirectly from atonement, in any case. He is just and the justifier, not one without the other.

 

[Marty]

Why does that matter if righteousness and atonement through Messiah were going to come as the answer to the prayer? Mercy from God is indirectly from atonement, in any case. He is just and the justifier, not one without the other.

My point is that the 70 weeks were an answer to Daniels prayer

Gabriel told Daniel what would happen because of their rebellion as terrible things would happen but then they were given hope. We saw this played out during the Maccabean revolt the Jews living through those times would have known this.

If you were a Jew living in that time what would you think that the 70 weeks were about? And history proved it

 

[EarlyActs]

My point is that the 70 weeks were an answer to Daniels prayer

Gabriel told Daniel what would happen because of their rebellion as terrible things would happen but then they were given hope. We saw this played out during the Maccabean revolt the Jews living through those times would have known this.

If you were a Jew living in that time what would you think that the 70 weeks were about? And history proved it

Funny how there is nothing mentioned in any Maccabean passage that I know of. Perhaps it has been missed.

Neither Caiaphas and Josephus near the end of the 70 weeks mention anything Maccabean. And yet the festival of lights was known and observed.

What is the "this" in "We saw this played out..." The truth of your line depends on it.

See "Zeal For The Law" in my book, M. Sanford, THE COVENANT REVOLT, Amazon.

 

[Marty]

Funny how there is nothing mentioned in any Maccabean passage that I know of. Perhaps it has been missed.

Neither Caiaphas and Josephus near the end of the 70 weeks mention anything Maccabean. And yet the festival of lights was known and observed.

What is the "this" in "We saw this played out..." The truth of your line depends on it.

See "Zeal For The Law" in my book, M. Sanford, THE COVENANT REVOLT, Amazon.

Maybe you misunderstood what I am saying or maybe I didn’t explain myself.

I state in the OP what happened during the Maccabean revolt. My point in my last post was that terrible things were happening under Antiochus Epehanies but the Jews were given hope through Judas Maccabees as he rose up and Antiochus was defeated and the temple sacrifices were reestablished

 

[EarlyActs]

Maybe you misunderstood what I am saying or maybe I didn’t explain myself.

I state in the OP what happened during the Maccabean revolt. My point in my last post was that terrible things were happening under Antiochus Epehanies but the Jews were given hope through Judas Maccabees as he rose up and Antiochus was defeated and the temple sacrifices were reestablished

And so? I’m glad you know that much instead of calling it the 400 silent years but it must match the end of Rom 9 and start of 10: it resulted in a zeal in those in Judaism that was without knowledge, and has nothing to do with what Jesus meant in Matt 24:15 about the person who was the abomination.

Jesus wanted all Israel to be missionaries; the anti-Jesus wanted them to fight for independence. That’s him in v15.